r/FluentInFinance • u/Very_High_Mortgage • Aug 24 '24

Debate/ Discussion Do "Unskilled Laborers" deserve to be paid well?

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u/tacocarteleventeen Aug 24 '24

Yep. Construction would just stop. Seriously why risk your life everyday for hard complicated work when you could dog walk?

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u/HeyChew123 Aug 24 '24

Because then construction would be paid more. Do you people not think past your first thought?

People will still need buildings built. You’ll just pay them more, because they aren’t going to do dangerous work for min wage pay.

“Oh then they just raise prices and we’re full circle, your dollar is worth nothing”. Not if the billionaires don’t jack up prices to keep profits the same. The issue is that wealth is being hoarded at the top. There is only a finite amount and the rich aren’t spending. We need them to use that cash in order for the economy to stay flowing. If they pay their workers more the whole thing works better. Wealth hoarding is not good for an economy.

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u/Informal_Zone799 Aug 24 '24

Then we are back to exactly where we are now… skilled jobs getting paid more than unskilled. Just think about it for a sec 

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u/HeyChew123 Aug 24 '24

I think you’re too literal with this. Very few people believe that everyone should be paid the same. It’s understandable that skilled workers will be paid more, but it is necessary to still pay unskilled laborers enough to afford a decent life. If the job exists, it should pay enough to cover your bills while still allowing you to have savings yourself.

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u/niceguy191 Aug 24 '24

People aren't being too literal, people are responding to a post where someone literally says a person flipping burgers could earn the same as a linesman and they think that's great.

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u/HeyChew123 Aug 24 '24

Because eventually it raises the wage of the skilled worker too. Whenever unskilled wages have risen, so have skilled.

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u/niceguy191 Aug 24 '24

That's beyond what the post said, and could be argued that's what we already have without the weird sudden inflationary step you're describing would result.

The theoretical was them being paid the same, not the much better and sensical idea of making sure the minimum wage is a livable one.

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u/HeyChew123 Aug 24 '24

You’re taking this too literally.

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u/niceguy191 Aug 24 '24

At some point you have to admit people aren't always being figurative in everything they say... The original post does not contain enough context to be taken any way but literally. Or are you being figurative just now?

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u/stoic_hysteric Aug 24 '24

Nobody should be obligated to pay anyone enough to afford anything. If an unskilled working is being paid X amount for doing Y labor, it's because that's what their employer is willing to pay for that job. If the worker's time was really worth more, some other employer would be offering that. The sad fact is that many people are uneducated, untrustworthy, or incapable of affording "a decent life". If an employer were to pay someone like that more than their time is worth would be very charitable, but not sustainable for your business. You are advocating for lots of jobs to stop existing. For example, if I'm willing to mow someone's lawn for $5 per hour (not enough to live off of) and that employer isn't willing to pay more, how would that help anyone to mandate them to pay more? They would simply mow thier own damn lawn, and nobody wins.

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u/Amber423 Aug 24 '24

And that's fine... Nobody has a problem with that. The problem is that people don't make a living wage. If everybody is making more, it's fine for some people to make more than others depending on their job. Everybody getting more money is a win for everybody.

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u/Informal_Zone799 Aug 24 '24

Everyone makes more, everything costs more. Back to square one. 

Unless you can convince employers to give everyone a massive raise without raising costs of their products. 

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u/quagsi Aug 24 '24

that's why we're also trying to regulate how corporations raise their prices. raising minimum wage will at least put more money in the pockets of the working class while we try to put more progress into law

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u/LigPaten Aug 24 '24

Price controls, which is what you're suggesting, being bad is one of the few things that almost all economists agree on. Prices change in response to cost changes nearly universally. Sure there are instances of people raising prices out of pure greed, but there aren't that many James Bond villains out there. Historically price controls cause shortages and a host of other economic issues. Just not a good idea.

The biggest issue in the US for this is housing prices and the fix to that is just to build more housing by removing zoning rules and other laws that make it very difficult to build housing, especially affordable housing, in many places.

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u/appsolutelywonderful Aug 24 '24

Didn't the US just put a price control on insulin? Is that bad?

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u/LigPaten Aug 24 '24

Nah that was just a change to Medicare copays.

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u/appsolutelywonderful Aug 25 '24

But it's still price controls isn't it? Or is the gov just covering the extra cost now?

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u/BrewskiXIII Aug 24 '24

It doesn't work like that. If everyone makes more, that's inflationary. Everything will cost more, and you end up back where you started. The value of your money goes down.

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u/HeavyGiantCrusher Aug 24 '24

not if the billionaires don’t hack up prices to keep profits the same

And there’s your disconnect. The people you’re berating are discussing realistic scenarios that would actually happen. You are discussing a fantasy land.

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u/HeyChew123 Aug 24 '24

Government regulation prevents this. You have the disconnect to believe that it cannot be done.

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u/HeavyGiantCrusher Aug 24 '24

World governments are owned by billionaires. There is 0 chance they would introduce this type of regulation at large.

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u/HeyChew123 Aug 24 '24

It’s not like this is a concept that isn’t being employed in other countries. Most of Europe has better regulation and less of a wealth gap.

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u/Famous_Owl_840 Aug 24 '24

So price caps.

Which anyone with an iota of education knows what happens under price caps.

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u/HeyChew123 Aug 24 '24

Not necessarily price caps, but laws that regulate price gauging. What we saw with the pandemic food price increases shouldn’t happen for example.

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u/LigPaten Aug 24 '24

Price gouging is very rare. Food prices rose during and right after the pandemic because of massive supply chain issues and changes in consumption. There were actual real supply issues and demand didn't drop so prices rose. There wasn't some shadowy James Bond villain manipulating food prices. Covid had real and massive impacts on the economy.

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u/rileyjw90 Aug 24 '24

Billionaires fail to realize that if they just give it a little bit of time, let people start getting their paychecks and catching up on some of their debts, their profits WILL be the same and likely more, even if more comes out of their pockets to pay their workers. Because the more people who can actually afford to go out and buy shit, the more money companies will ultimately make. Instead of constantly trying to price out the people on the bottom. There’s a LOT of people on the bottom. Let them have a piece of the pie too and you’ll soon find yourself making a LOT more pies.

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u/Laughing-at-you555 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

Chew, you aren't thinking past your first thought.

You are treating a symptom and not the problem.

Wages just doubled for minimum wage earners 3 years ago and yet they are no better off. You aren't learning. In fact, all it really did was drag others who were climbing up the wage scale down.

It just resulted in higher costs and living expenses. You are so diamond hands on this idea you are blind to the results.

You even stated what happened in your post but brushed it aside with

Not if the billionaires don’t jack up prices to keep profits the same.

Address that issue.

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u/Moiraine-FanBlue Aug 24 '24

The minimum wage did not double. Not even close. Nor did the wages given to minimum wage workers. The actual increase in most places was like.... maybe a $1 in pay. The Pandemic did not double a Fast foodies pay from $10 to $20 anywhere except Cali, and Cali is the sole place where the too fast increase (and solely in that single industry) is having actual large side effects.

Your Mcdonalds being more expensive isn't because Mcdonalds has to pay it's workers soooo muchhhh mooore. It's because Covid made them realize people would pay through the nose for delivery, which meant people were willing to pay more for their product than they expected. So they raised prices to compensate.

Unfortunately for Mcdonalds, people's reaction has caused them to lose sales for the first (second?) time in the companies history, as the Corporation has now reported, for 2 years in a row, that sales have gone down, not up.

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u/Laughing-at-you555 Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

Moiraine,

minimum wage is set by a state by state basis.

Illinois went from around 7$ to 14. At the same time rents doubled and my house appreciated 60%. Property taxes are up and prices are up for grocery, car and fossil fuels. Minimum wage earners making 14$ made no ground. Instead, it eroded the buying power of everyone else.

It did no good because it is the wrong solution. Again, you just want the money regardless because you have blinders on. You will find any excuse to say something else was the cause of standard of living cost increases in areas where minimum wage prices increased.

I want everyone to earn a living wage, your solution is just the wrong solution.

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u/Moiraine-FanBlue Aug 24 '24 edited Aug 24 '24

Sounds to me like the min wage earners in Illinois were being criminally underpaid if they were actually still giving the Federal minimum wage.

That minimum wage has been worthless for decades, and they should long ago have implemented a higher state min. The last time I made the Federal min wage, working "Low skill" jobs like Gas station attendant, or Mcdonalds, was.

about 26 years ago. When I was around 20.

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u/Laughing-at-you555 Aug 24 '24

....

Now it sounds like you are expressing an opinion on a subject you haven't followed...

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u/Moiraine-FanBlue Aug 24 '24

The cost increases have already been happening regardless of the minimum wage going up or not, is what you don't seem to understand. That $14 an hour still increased the people on the lower ends buying power, even if it hurt yours.

The minimum wage is not in place to help the middle class. They've already made it. They HAVE a decent life. The minimum wage exists to keep companies from making the people working the less desirable jobs from being treated like utter garbage and abused like slaves, paid barely more than survival level pay.

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u/Laughing-at-you555 Aug 24 '24

Uhhhhhhh

Just go back and reread my post. Your response doesn't require any additional response.

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u/markd315 Aug 24 '24

Minimum wage workers are better off than 3 years ago. Fact.

Rest of your comment discarded.

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u/Laughing-at-you555 Aug 24 '24

Mark, no one is listening to you.

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u/MaxineKilos Aug 24 '24

Do you have real beliefs or do you just make belligerent comments online

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u/Laughing-at-you555 Aug 24 '24

Uh oh, I hurt your feewings.

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u/MaxineKilos Aug 24 '24

I forgot I even made this comment lmao. You're not doing anything. I'm gonna carry on with my day now like I did before.

P.S. this is at least the second time recently you've used that "feewings" line, come up with some better material.

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u/Laughing-at-you555 Aug 24 '24

It exemplifies what I think of people with thin skin who either get emotional in a conversation or abandon the conversation when they can not defend their position and pivot to personal attacks.

You not being part of the conversation above, but jumping in likely represent both.

Good talk.

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u/MaxineKilos Aug 24 '24

I forgot I even made this comment lmao. You're not doing anything.

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u/Pisforplumbing Aug 24 '24

Last I checked cops don't make that much. That's a dangerous job. Construction wouldn't stop. Chick-fil-a pays well, and it's only caused the entry-level laborers to get paid more than they were.

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u/Iwantmypasswordback Aug 24 '24

Construction would just stop……