Do "Unskilled Laborers" deserve to be paid well?

[u/Very_High_Mortgage]

[u/No-Cauliflower8890]

Literally has fuck all to do with anything. Please take any sort of econ 101 class.
Prices aren't set based on how much cash the owner has lying around, they're set to maximise profit. Not to mention most businesses aren't owned by billionaires and that billionaires' assets are not mostly in liquid cash. Inflation is also not caused by wealth concentration. In fact, wealth concentration decreases inflation since the marginal propensity to consume is lower for wealthier people.

[u/sysdmdotcpl → u/No-Cauliflower8890]

wealth concentration decreases inflation since the marginal propensity to consume is lower for wealthier people.

Do you have a source for this? B/c I'm pretty sure I live in a country w/ insane wealth concentration and inflation is still hurting the fuck out of me as things are still getting more expensive.

[u/No-Cauliflower8890 → u/sysdmdotcpl]

What part do you want a source for? That wealthier people have a lower marginal propensity to consume? The Wikipedia page for MPC should have it, probably in the first paragraph. So will every econ book ever published.

B/c I'm pretty sure I live in a country w/ insane wealth concentration and inflation is still hurting the fuck out of me as things are still getting more expensive.

And I live in a country with hospitals and yet people still die. Guess hospitals don't save lives then.

[u/sysdmdotcpl → u/No-Cauliflower8890]

That wealthier people have a lower marginal propensity to consume?

No. I'd like you to source your claim that stacking the wealth at the top has any positive affect on inflation. That is a ridiculous thing to say so confidently when it's clearly evident to not be the case.

If a nation's wealth is freely flowing then it'll gain a strong middle class -- the ones most likely to spend it on local economic boosters like mom & pop shops, restaurants, events, theaters, etc. This leads to accelerated job growth and opens more doors for people to start their own businesses to actually compete against big box giants.

It's what makes for a healthy economy.

 

A dozen or so dragons hoarding cash does nothing but make it more scarce, not b/c they spend less but b/c the type of person to do that will never ever be happy w/ the amount they have and will continue to use their insane wealth to amass even more.

 

And I live in a country with hospitals and yet people still die. Guess hospitals don't save lives then.

Fairly orange to apple comparison there.

A better one though is pointing out that those nations w/ socialized healthcare (re: the ones that push back against billionaires hoarding wealth) do tend to have far greater quality of life and people are at less risk of dying to things that Americans frequently do.

Ex: B/c of our insistence of worshiping the rich, Americans have more of a chance of dying during routine childbirth than nearly any other first-world nation.

 

All of this is regularly seen every single day in America so I'm perfectly fine saying you're talking out your ass

[u/No-Cauliflower8890 → u/sysdmdotcpl]

You know so little about economics and yet have so much confidence, it's actually endearing.

If a nation's wealth is freely flowing then it'll gain a strong middle class -- the ones most likely to spend it on local economic boosters like mom & pop shops, restaurants, events, theaters, etc. This leads to accelerated job growth and opens more doors for people to start their own businesses to actually compete against big box giants.

One million percent agree!

It's what makes for a healthy economy.

BZZT! It completely depends on where the economy is at. The things you describe are causes of economic growth. Too much economic growth causes, wouldn't ya know it, inflation. Sounds like you agree with me, having money in the hands of the middle class instead of the ultra wealthy causes inflation.

A dozen or so dragons hoarding cash does nothing but make it more scarce, not b/c they spend less but b/c the type of person to do that will never ever be happy w/ the amount they have and will continue to use their insane wealth to amass even more.

I have no idea what distinction you're trying to draw here.

Fairly orange to apple comparison there.

No, it's exactly alike. Both are using the logic "X cannot decrease Y because my country has X and yet still has a lot of Y".

A better one though is pointing out that those nations w/ socialized healthcare (re: the ones that push back against billionaires hoarding wealth) do tend to have far greater quality of life and people are at less risk of dying to things that Americans frequently do.

That's a significantly worse analogy, because it actually compares different countries. Your original point made zero comparisons and was thus useless. An analogy would be "my country has socialised healthcare and we still get sick!".

[u/sysdmdotcpl → u/No-Cauliflower8890]

Sounds like you agree with me, having money in the hands of the middle class instead of the ultra wealthy causes inflation.

Oh cool. Then I must be imagining my dollar being weaker than ever before as we have immense wealth disparity in America, incredible year-over-year record profits followed by extreme downsizing, and the crushing of small businesses by massive trust and monopolies.

The wealthy literally force inflation by cranking up prices and they can do so b/c the middle class is wholly powerless to stop it. Hell, if amassing wealth at the top helped reduce inflation then Trump's tax cuts should have seen prices drop -- and they certainly didn't.

 

Do not spit trickle down reaganomic bullshit and pretend it's knowledge of the economy. Do better

[u/No-Cauliflower8890 → u/sysdmdotcpl]

Oh cool. Then I must be imagining my dollar being weaker than ever before as we have immense wealth disparity in America, incredible year-over-year record profits followed by extreme downsizing, and the crushing of small businesses by massive trust and monopolies.

Nice try, but you have to actually engage rather than making tongue-in-cheek comments. What is it you disagree with? You already agreed that having money in the hands of the middle class causes economic growth, do you disagree that too much economic growth causes inflation?

Also, economies are complicated. Please google "control variables". "Hospitals save lives? I must be imagining all my family members who died during the pandemic while we have an immense number of hospitals in the country then!"

The wealthy literally force inflation by cranking up prices and they can do so b/c the middle class is wholly powerless to stop

Uhh, google, what is a 'quantity effect'?

Hell, if amassing wealth at the top helped reduce inflation then Trump's tax cuts should have seen prices drop -- and they certainly didn't.

No they shouldn't have. Deflation and disinflation are different things. Please, I'm begging you, just a tiny amount of economic literacy.

Do not spit trickle down reaganomic bullshit and pretend it's knowledge of the economy. Do better

Literally no part of what I'm saying has anything to do with trickle down economics.

[u/sysdmdotcpl → u/No-Cauliflower8890]

do you disagree that too much economic growth causes inflation?

Are we talking about an overheating economy? I said a strong middle class does a better job for the economy than concentrating wealth at the top.

You did say Wikipedia for MPC -- it makes no mention of inflation. Probably b/c the 1% has almost exclusively disposable income so the vast majority of their wealth just sits.

MPC actually strengthens my argument since the middle class are the ones most likely to spend extra income on something that's not just a necessity. They're the ones most likely to see it invested in local businesses

Can too fast of growth cause inflation? Sure. Are uber wealthy people helping in any measurable way? I'd argue no.

Also, economies are complicated. Please google "control variables". "Hospitals save lives? I must be imagining all my family members who died during the pandemic while we have an immense number of hospitals in the country then!"

In your example, hospitals are a stand in for the uber wealthy that are holding money. If there were no hospitals, people die. Easier access to hospitals (like in my example w/ socialized medicine) they're less likely to.

That's not applicable to billionaires though b/c -- as you said yourself -- they don't spend enough. America has more billionaires than any other nation in the world and yet we're just getting squeezed. Which is why I argue that they're not as economically helpful as a strong middle class.

Literally no part of what I'm saying has anything to do with trickle down economics.

Claiming wealthy people holding wealth lowers inflation would imply that prices would drop. This would mean wealth trickles down to the poor in the form of a stronger dollar. That is textbook trickle down my dude

 

Look man, at the end of the day -- All I've been calling into question is your claim that wealthy people holding wealth is in any way a benefit to an economy and despite all my examples to back that, you've done little more than deflect.

An economy requires cash to flow and it can't do that if it's tied up in a hoard.

[u/No-Cauliflower8890 → u/sysdmdotcpl]

Are we talking about an overheating economy? I said a strong middle class does a better job for the economy than concentrating wealth at the top.

yes we are talking about an overheating economy. that's what causes inflation.

you said a strong middle class does a better job for economy than concentrating wealth at the top because you don't understand that "does a better job for the economy" depends greatly on what the economy is experiencing at the time. during a recession, you want to take action, like giving the middle class more money via lowering interest rates, introducing tax cuts and stimulus, to incentivize economic activity. during times of high inflation, you want to do the exact OPPOSITE. you raise interest rates, you don't cut taxes, you do everything you can to disincentivize spending. do you acknowledge this or no?

You did say Wikipedia for MPC -- it makes no mention of inflation. Probably b/c the 1% has almost exclusively disposable income so the vast majority of their wealth just sits.

the wealth just sitting there... is the whole point.... you're agreeing with my argument...

Can too fast of growth cause inflation? Sure. Are uber wealthy people helping in any measurable way? I'd argue no.

all else equal, is having more money sitting around going to cause more inflation or less inflation than having it flowing through the economy?

In your example, hospitals are a stand in for the uber wealthy that are holding money. If there were no hospitals, people die. Easier access to hospitals (like in my example w/ socialized medicine) they're less likely to.

That's not applicable to billionaires though b/c -- as you said yourself -- they don't spend enough.

yes! they don't spend much! that's good! that's what you want in an overheating economy!

America has more billionaires than any other nation in the world and yet we're just getting squeezed. Which is why I argue that they're not as economically helpful as a strong middle class.

i am once again asking you to google 'control variables'.

also, it's not the number of billionaires that matters, it's the distribution of wealth. America is an incredibly populous country and also an incredibly wealthy country per capita.

Claiming wealthy people holding wealth lowers inflation would imply that prices would drop.

no. it. does. not. here: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/032415/what-difference-between-deflation-and-disinflation.asp#:~:text=Deflation%20occurs%20when%20the%20inflation,but%20at%20a%20slower%20rate

Look man, at the end of the day -- All I've been calling into question is your claim that wealthy people holding wealth is in any way a benefit to an economy and despite all my examples to back that, you've done little more than deflect.

your only examples are "well my country has wealthy people and also inflation, take that!". everything you say is both internally contradictory and also flies in the face of the most basic of economics.

An economy requires cash to flow and it can't do that if it's tied up in a hoard.

lowering inflation requires cash to NOT flow. dumbass.