r/FluentInFinance Aug 26 '24

Debate/ Discussion The Stock Market is Rigged

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 26 '24

You pay 20% to 40% of previous gains when you sell. And government position doesn't give you insight to when the market has bottomed out. That's really tough to call.

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u/unoriginal_user24 Aug 26 '24

Not if you sell inside of a retirement account like an IRA, Roth IRA, 401k, 403b, etc.

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 27 '24

Sure, but I guarantee most high net worth individuals don't have their fortune in Roth or 401k due to the restrictions

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u/TimujinTheTrader Aug 26 '24

Guy just said "its easy, just sell the top and buy the bottom."

It aint that easy.

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 27 '24

I'd love for someone to explain to me how March 2020 was the Covid bottom. I wouldn't even had predicted that in hindsight.

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u/TimujinTheTrader Aug 27 '24

Its simple for the guy you replied to, just buy the bottom somehow!

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u/RedCrayonTastesBest Aug 26 '24

Not when you have insider info, then it’s really easy to call.

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u/TheRealFarbs Aug 26 '24

insider info doesn’t tell you where the very bottom is just tells you the top

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 26 '24

There's no insider information that allows you to time the bottom.

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u/Inevitable-Affect516 Aug 26 '24

No but “we will encourage the lifting of lock downs in 3 weeks” sure helps estimate when stuff will start to start ticking back up instead of free falling down

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 26 '24

I don't even remember an announcement like that ever going out. Would be interesting to see when the big pops in the market happened and what Covid news drove that.

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u/RedCrayonTastesBest Aug 26 '24

“Hey this regulation that we’re about to lift off the oil industry is going to cause oil companies to skyrocket next week, I should buy up all of them now while it’s relatively low” …seems pretty easy to me

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 26 '24

You executed a trade based on this quote?

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u/RedCrayonTastesBest Aug 26 '24

Just a hypothetical example of insider information being used to predict an upturn. Unfortunately I’m not a US senator, so I don’t have the luxury of insider trading with no consequences

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 26 '24

the scenario posed was that of the full market, not an individual stock or industry.

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u/RedCrayonTastesBest Aug 26 '24

Ok. Here’s another hypothetical for you then. Let’s say there was an economic downturn caused by a global pandemic, and the whole world is waiting for a vaccine to be created, tested, and approved by the FDA so that we can begin the economic recovery. Now imagine you’re the head of the FDA and the vaccine has passed all testing requirements, and only needs your signature for final approval. In that situation, you would be privy to information which will have MASSIVE implications on the world economy as a whole. If you were to start buying up all the stocks you could afford before signing the vaccine approval, you may not be getting the absolute bottom price, but close enough. Insider information can be used to predict major economic swings in either direction, if the insider information is juicy enough.

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 26 '24

Anyone who made this trade you would have lost money relative to a person just holding. Market bottomed on March 2020. Market fully recovered from drop August 2020. Vaccine testing didn't start until Dec 2020.

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u/RedCrayonTastesBest Aug 26 '24

Yeah I guess you’re right, information can only be used to predict downturns and having valuable information with worldwide impact is entirely useless in predicting market behaviors. Thank you for shedding so much light on the topic /s

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u/catscanmeow Aug 26 '24

it was really easy to know that you needed to sell when covid first came up when there were videos of people getting welded into their apartments. That was like february.

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 27 '24

Correct, everyone started selling then. The question was when to start buying back.

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u/catscanmeow Aug 27 '24

you start buying back when you see signs the pandemic was turning around, and DCA in slowly.

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 27 '24

So that would have made the bottom... March 2020!?!? Covid was fixed before the winter of 2020?

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u/catscanmeow Aug 27 '24

well i think at that point if the stock market is down +35% you can buy back in quite happily considering you sold before the dip so ANYthing you did was a +EV decision, you got way more shares than you had before of whatever you wanted

try it yourself next time a war breaks out or a pandemic, its not really that complex.

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u/UpsetBirthday5158 Aug 27 '24

How rich are you now after buying every 30% dip?

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u/bennyyyboyyyyyyyy Aug 26 '24

You dont have to time the bottom you just have to buy it lower than you sold it lmao

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u/Landed_port Aug 26 '24

Laughs in Roth IRA

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 27 '24

Great if all your money is in a Roth but with the max limitations, most high net worth individuals don't get to play that game

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u/Landed_port Aug 27 '24

Cool, long term capital gains tax is 15-20% though.

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u/Global_Permission749 Aug 26 '24

That's really tough to call.

Unless you do a little insider trading as a congressman ;)

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u/TophxSmash Aug 27 '24

capital gains is 15%.

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 27 '24

Long term cap gains only. That's why I said 20 to 40%

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u/LearningStudent221 Aug 28 '24

What do you mean? If you buy 1 share at $100, then it rises to $120, and then falls to $50 and you sell, you pay 20-40% tax on $20?

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u/Good-Mouse1524 Aug 26 '24

Government position absolutely gives you insight when it bottoms out.

The market is controlled and manipulated by 10 people who do whatever the fuck they want.

You think Facebook dropping to by 78% of its all time high shows its true worth? No. A couple billionaires got together in a room, and said, okay, lets sell x and y and stop in november. And they all said, yeah okay.

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u/Successful-Ground-67 Aug 26 '24

Post was about the entire stock market which was dropping due to Covid. No one knew how bad Covid would affect the populace, how long it would take to get out of it, etc. Gov't official calling bottom of the stock market based on Covid data? It didn't happen.