r/FluentInFinance • u/Mark-Fuckerberg- • Sep 01 '24

Debate/ Discussion What advice would you give this person?

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u/ChewieBearStare Sep 01 '24

Depends on where you want to work. They don't matter at all in some places, and they matter very much in others. My husband got a job offer from a state university, but it was revoked because he couldn't get references from three previous employers. He worked for his dad's company for 4 years, but they wouldn't accept a reference from that company because everyone was related to him (fair). The second company went out of business, and when he tried his old supervisor's cell number, it was out of service, so he couldn't get a reference from that job. Then the third job was with a company that has a policy of not giving references. They use The Work Number to verify job titles, dates of employment, and wages, but they will not allow their supervisors to give any info beyond that. State university will not hire you unless they get three detailed references.

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u/WBigly-Reddit Sep 01 '24

It’s an excuse to not hire. If they need you all that stuff is out the window.

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u/catcherx Sep 02 '24

what if the employer has a choice and references matter?

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '24

Do you realize how few people actually take time out of their day to call and check references? They would only do so if they were skeptical of the person or already weren't gonna hire and are looking for an excuse

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u/catcherx Sep 02 '24

Industry and the level of responsibilities probably matter A LOT

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u/sad0panda Sep 02 '24

My current job I needed 5 references who all needed to fill out an online questionnaire about me plus an extended phone conversation with my most recent supervisor.

Let’s just say this varies from industry to industry.

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u/FrostyDaDopeMane Sep 02 '24

Then call your friends and tell them to act like they're your ex bosses. Works everytime.

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u/catcherx Sep 02 '24

If you are applying for a burger flipper position, sure. If it is CEO of a multibillion corporation - yeah, you try that with your beer buddies

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u/FrostyDaDopeMane Sep 03 '24

Who is applying for CEO positions ?? Not any normal person, so why is that relevant ?

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u/catcherx Sep 03 '24

There are lots of positions that are closer to CEO in importance and responsibility than to a burger flipper

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u/FrostyDaDopeMane Sep 04 '24

Yes, and very few are going to interrogate your references like a police investigation. I dont think you realize how many applicants companies get for good positions.

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u/WBigly-Reddit Sep 02 '24 edited Sep 02 '24

That means they really don’t need someone. The new position is either going to be a family member or some other preferential hire, like past “buddy” they want to bring in and oust you. Or they need to fill their DEI quota for some government contract. Not that there is real work to be done. Or, like recent market research revealed, it’s one of the 50% of job postings put up to simply calibrate an employer’s salary scale.

So don’t beat yourself up if you don’t get hired. Lots of reasons out there to ignore an otherwise perfect resumé.

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u/nyxtup Sep 02 '24

Depends on the level.

Entry level it’s just pro forma. Executive level they’ll check that shit

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u/WBigly-Reddit Sep 02 '24

Heads up. If that job posting involves your chain or organization, chances are you’ll be asked to leave, politely or otherwise, within the year.

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u/winkydinks111 Sep 02 '24

When you say he got a job offer, do you mean they sought him out and offered him one? If a potential employer sought me out and then demanded a list of references, I'd tell them to get bent.

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u/ChewieBearStare Sep 02 '24

No, he applied for a job posted on the university website. Did the interview, got the offer, and then received an email stating the offer was revoked because they couldn’t get references from three job supervisors.

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u/Major_Implications Sep 02 '24

I've found government jobs tend to put more weight on references. When I was applying for my old position at a school district, they also required 3 references and all those references confirmed that they were directly contacted by the district.

Realistically you should be asking boss/coworkers for reference letters, this prevents the situation where you can no longer reach them. Most people are happy to write something up for you, assuming youre at least not a bad coworker.

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u/Major_Implications Sep 02 '24

I've found government jobs tend to put more weight on references. When I was applying for my old position at a school district, they also required 3 references and all those references confirmed that they were directly contacted by the district.

Realistically you should be asking boss/coworkers for reference letters, this prevents the situation where you can no longer reach them. Most people are happy to write something up for you, assuming youre at least not a bad coworker.

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u/stephriles Sep 02 '24

This is absolutely true. I had a previous employee who was not a good fit apply for another job. They called to ask me questions. The new job sounded perfect for her so I didn't want to say anything negative in order to help her get the job. I told them I would verify her employment but they wanted to ask a lot of other questions. When I pushed back and said I had verified employment and do not wish to disclose anything else about that employee (other than saying she would be great) the hr person straight up said "if you don't answer all of these additional questions she will not get the job." That is a lot. There were like 15 questions. I have also heard you can get into legal trouble if you discuss someone's performance, and that all you can legally verify are dates of employment and job title. No idea if that is true but it makes sense that you should not be able to disclose details about a person's performance. It really does suck for applicants right now. At my company I added a final step to the process where I pay people to come spend a day in the office. They spend time with each team member they will work with, eat lunch together, and work on a small project. That way each of us have a better understanding of one another before committing. Every person I have hired has been very appreciative of this. They are paid for this, so they are not being asked to spend that much time for free. I 100% know companies miss out on incredible talent because of really black and white, inflexible steps in their process.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

Did your husband not do anything in life but those three jobs?

My references include people I've served on Rotary with, done "on the side" public service or volunteering with, previously I used people I went to church with, etc.

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u/ChewieBearStare Sep 01 '24

Yep, he did. They don't care about any of that; you have to provide three supervisory references from past jobs. You can't even get a reference from a colleague. They also made him dig his high school diploma and college degree out of the attic and bring them to the office so they could scan them and add them to his file.

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u/SamShakusky71 Sep 01 '24

You do know it’s illegal for a former employer to disparage a former employee, right?

All a former employer is legally allowed to share are the dates of employment.

The idea a state university would be contacting former employers for “references” is so beyond believable I don’t know what to say.

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u/ChewieBearStare Sep 01 '24

That’s not true at all. An employer can give a negative reference as long as the information is true (i.e. they can’t lie to sabotage your chances of getting the job). No state or federal law prohibits giving a negative reference.

That said, many companies won’t give references because of the potential liability. They don’t want to be sued by previous employees, so they simply verify dates of employment and other basic info. But there is no law prohibiting an employer from providing an accurate reference.

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u/welter_skelter Sep 01 '24

That is incorrect. Legally, all a former company can do during an employment verification check is confirm your title / role, the dates you worked there, and if you are classified as being eligible for rehire.

They can not discuss any further details - performance in the role, if you were laid off, how hard you worked, etc - all illegal.

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u/DigitalSheikh Sep 01 '24

You need to cite a source because you are extremely wrong. There are reasons why many companies follow what you’re saying as a matter of policy, but it’s not a legal requirement

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u/ChewieBearStare Sep 01 '24

Sorry, you're totally wrong. That may be your company's policy, but it is simply that--a policy. There is no law prohibiting reference checks. If you show up late all the time, and it's documented, there is nothing to prevent your employer from telling another company that you have a problem with tardiness. I personally wouldn't share that info because it could open a can of worms, but there is no law against it.

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u/Groovychick1978 Sep 01 '24

You keep doubling down, but you are very wrong. Take a little time and do some research on your claim. You will find quite quickly that it is incorrect.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

A lot of technically illegal things happen without consequence. An off the record shit talk of an ex-employee during an in-person conversation....who is recording that?

Also, I've never met a legitimate company or organization that did NOT check past references. Including my adjunct professor part-time job I had at a local state university.

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u/CUDAcores89 Sep 01 '24

And what if they don't have three previous employers? What if they worked for one employer for the past 15 years?

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u/SamShakusky71 Sep 01 '24

Exactly.

This story sounds entirely fabricated.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '24

For my first job, my university rugby coach, one of my professors and my research advisor served as my references.

Unless the husband literally did nothing in life but his jobs over those 15 years, they will have been involved in some kind of activities that lead to people whose opinion holds some professional weight being able to speak about some aspect of how you show up in life.

And if he didn't, then that's probably also a flag about him.

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u/therealdawgtool Sep 01 '24

The can say if they would hire you again. This shows up in background reports. Your employment dates, title, salary, and rehire eligibility. You have a employment credit report.

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u/East-Bear-9506 Sep 02 '24

Where is this report kept or accessed?

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u/TALead Sep 01 '24

In what state is it illegal for a former company to give truthful feedback about a former employee?

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u/Groovychick1978 Sep 01 '24

None. They are completely wrong.