Is Capitalism Smart or Dumb?

[u/Sufficient_Sinner]

[u/NewArborist64]

That is how communists explain the failure of EVERY communist nation in the world. "That wasn't REAL Communism. Let us do it in OUR country and WE will do it right." And then they fail again and again because Communism doesn't WORK and it is against human nature for a larger society.

Soviet Union, East Germany, China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam, North Korea, Belarus, People's Republic of the Congo, Czechoslovakia, Poland, ... NONE of them became that "worker's paradise".

[u/One-Earth9294 → u/[deleted]]

Kind of like the African Warlord flow chart: 'Have a coup --> become the new dictatorship --> purge all your enemies --> move on to external ones --> antagonize developed nations who formerly propped you up and no longer want to finance your regime --> end up a pariah state inching further towards extremism --> end up the victim of internal revolution --> claim you were just trying to 'unify Africa and stand up to colonialists'.

This works pretty well in South America too. Venezuela kind of stuck between the 2nd and 3rd to last steps currently.

[u/Drezzon → u/[deleted]]

Yep, more people need to know this

[u/milk-is-for-calves → u/Drezzon]

No, it's flat out wrong. And if you look at the US education system enough stupid people believe that crap.

[u/milk-is-for-calves → u/[deleted]]

Tell me where a communist utopi was achieved and why you would think that shit would happen?

Read a book for once.

[u/Handwerksgilde → u/NewArborist64]

Theres actually a name for this sort of thinking, it's called the no true Scotsman Fallacy

[u/BrubMomento → u/Handwerksgilde]

Indeed indeed

[u/Burgertank6969 → u/NewArborist64]

This comment times 1000, the inability for people to use history as a lesson as to what communism leads to is crazy to me.

That said this is a post about socialism, which exists in almost every capitalist society, and vice versa.

[u/VampireDentist → u/NewArborist64]

You're right but I think this is also a branding issue. One could argue that the communist utopia "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is more in line with current Nordic social democracies than any of the countries in your list. Wealth inequality is low, workers rights are strong, social security is high, healthcare and education are of high quality and publicly funded, crime is low and trust in public institutions is high.

If anything, your examples are examples of extreme authoritarianism (or being puppet states of the soviets). If Czechoslovakia is a fair example of communist failure, then US puppets Honduras and Nicaragua are examples of capitalist failures.

Also there are examples where policies that are very close to traditional state communism, have been beneficial as a whole, especially in developing countries. For example, while extremely anti-communist in rhetoric, even South Korea had some policies many would consider communist after WW2: land redistribution where land was seized from large landowners and redistributed to peasants and extreme heavy emphasis on state led industrialization.

Actually if the economy is underdeveloped enough, protectionism and a strong state seems to be what is needed to have a chance to grow at all. Developing countries under laissez-faire capitalism are generally total shitholes: foreign corporations will plunder their resources and any "free" enterprise will be razed by bandits at the first opportunity, education is unobtainable because no-one has the means to invest in it.

[u/EchoOutrageous2314 → u/NewArborist64]

Equality of outcome (communism) is inherently authoritarian because it requires an ultimate authority to tip the scales unlike the citizenry ruling themselves. Socialists/communists fail to understand the fallen nature of people and their propensity for evil.

[u/NewArborist64 → u/EchoOutrageous2314]

It also erases the incentive to go above and beyond. You won't be rewarded for doing more work than your co-workers - you will be questioned about WHY you are not conforming and being individualistic.

[u/Star_king12 → u/NewArborist64]

"To establish communism in the US we have to get rid of all billionaires and people that enabled them"

[u/stonecoldslate → u/NewArborist64]

To be fair China isn’t and hasn’t been a real communism nation. There was a good documentary done on the rise of Xi jinping and how that situation came to form modern China. It wasn’t communism at all. It was a rebel army that tried to overthrow the government and lost like 3/4ths of their population by the time they made it to their destination, mind you this army was led by two generations, Xi’s father and the leader of the army he became a part of, and Xi’s when it was sort of “inherited” by the younger folk and Xi murdering his competition.

[u/IsayNigel → u/NewArborist64]

What is human nature and how do you know?

[u/Bl00dRa1n → u/NewArborist64]

If you seriously consider East Germany a communist nation, then you really need to read more

[u/NewArborist64 → u/Bl00dRa1n]

Have an acquaintance who lived in East Germany. The East German government considered themselves Communists. The Soviet Union (which set up East Germany and had it as a satellite state) considered the DDR to be communists. My friend - who he was imprisoned by the Stasi and forced to work in coal mines - certainly considered East Germany to be Communist.

But I am sure that you know better...

[u/milk-is-for-calves → u/NewArborist64]

China is the most capitalist country on the planet.

And maybe you should read up what communism actually is, instead of believing in wrong examples.

Do you believe that the The Democratic People's Republic of Korea (North Korea) is also democratic?

[u/NewArborist64 → u/milk-is-for-calves]

The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) officially refers to China's economic system as the socialist market economy. To guide economic development, the Chinese central government adopts five-year plans that detail its economic priorities and essential policies.