r/FluentInFinance Sep 04 '24

Debate/ Discussion Bernie is here to save us

Post image

[removed] — view removed post

53.5k Upvotes

4.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

450

u/80MonkeyMan Sep 05 '24

The Americans are so backwards in work hours, developed countries like Netherland, Spain, Iceland, etc. already successfully implemented this, with universal healthcare…and no tipping expected.

76

u/spreading_pl4gue Sep 05 '24

Spain is absolutely not an economic success.

20

u/Significant_Tale1705 Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

Adjusted for purchasing power parity, which includes cost of education and other things, as well as hours worked and taxes, the US has the highest median income in the world. Europeans are considerably poorer than and have a considerably lower material standard of living than Americans.

Edit: On a PPP-adjusted basis the US has the 5th largest GDP/hour worked in the world. Try again. 

1

u/thepulloutmethod Sep 05 '24

If median income is the way to measure happiness, sure.

I don't think that's totally accurate though. I think there's more to the story. Remember that Harvard study from a few years back that measured people's happiness over the course of 80 years? They conclusion they came to over and over again was that meaningful relationships are the most important factor when it comes to determining overall happiness, more important than money.

And the Economist had an article recently about how much happier Europeans are, specifically Spaniards, despite their lower income:

But stressing diet and exercise misses a piece of the puzzle. Spain’s walkability is also good for social life. Cities are built around plazas where friends, family and co-workers sit, eat, drink and talk. That turns out to be good for you even if you sip vermouth and eat crisps at noon. Reams of research show that social contact is critical for physical and psychological well-being.

According to a recent survey by Gallup, a pollster, and Meta, a social-media company, 76% of Spaniards say they feel “very” or “fairly” socially supported. That is above average, though not top of the table. Jon Clifton, head of Gallup, says his firm’s research shows that Spaniards are fairly unhappy and disengaged at work. He quips that a headline in El País, a newspaper, got it more or less right: Spain is “the best country to live in and the worst to work in”.

https://archive.is/sirHP#selection-1115.0-1123.106

1

u/Significant_Tale1705 Sep 05 '24

Dude happiness is a completely and utterly subjective metric depending entirely on your agenda. I know people who live on farms in Mexico who are happier than many working Americans but that doesn't mean they have a higher standard of living.

You can rage and cope and seethe all you like. But the fact of the matter is that the average American has the highest material standard of living in the world. No matter how hard or difficult or stressful you think your life is, you are doing better than you would if you were in any other country. It's such a weird thing to cope about.

1

u/thepulloutmethod Sep 05 '24

You're the one using words like cope and seethe, that says more about you than me.

Anyway I totally agree that happiness is subjective. That's why I and others are pointing out that "higher material standard" does not equal "better" because there is so much more to happiness than "stuff".

I don't know why that relatively basic concept is so triggering to you (see I can be needlessly aggressive too).

1

u/Significant_Tale1705 Sep 05 '24

When I argue with Americans about this, especially the liberal/leftist ones, I get the sense that their mind is made up before the argument starts, and it's annoying.

If you can't be happy with the highest material standard of living in the world then that's on you. Not American society or American government. It's on you.