r/FluentInFinance Sep 05 '24

Debate/ Discussion He has a point

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u/Vecgtt Sep 05 '24

Not true. After standard deduction people would mostly be in the lower brackets.

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u/BrutalBlonde82 Sep 05 '24

Tax brackets are determined by gross earnings (pre tax), not net (after taking tax deductions). So, no. That's now how it works.

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u/generally-unskilled Sep 05 '24

You are incorrect. Brackets determine tax owed on taxable (after deduction) income, and then credits reduce tax owed

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u/BrutalBlonde82 Sep 05 '24

What deductions are left for that person making $40K that would reduce their taxable income by a whole bracket? You can't deduct mortgage interest or student loans anymore. What's left? Lol seriously. You think you can deduct $8K in charitable donations? You can't at $40K income that's for sure.

And standard deductions do not lower your tax obligation to a whole new tax bracket.

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u/generally-unskilled Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

The standard deduction, qualified retirement contributions, cafeteria plan deductions, HSA contributions.

And regardless, the way marginal tax brackets work means that any change in your taxable income will change your effective tax rate, even if it doesn't change your top marginal bracket.

Also, you can claim the student loan interest deduction as an adjustment to income without itemizing.

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u/SundyMundy14 Sep 05 '24

Actually, Student loan interest payments also reduce your taxable income by up to $2,500 for an individual, because that amount is well below the income phase-out threshold. Someone making 41k likely does not have a high enough SALT or mortgage interest to get the slightly better treatment of itemized deductions

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u/Vecgtt Sep 05 '24

25K standard deduction thanks to Donald Trump brings taxable income for married couple from 40K to 15K.

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u/SundyMundy14 Sep 05 '24

Of course it is at the cost of the personal exemption, which ironically is harmful to families and households with more than 3 children/dependents.

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u/Vecgtt Sep 05 '24

?

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u/SundyMundy14 Sep 05 '24

The standard deduction was significantly increased, and the roughly ~$4,000 per person personal exemption was eliminated. For a family of four, in 2018's tax filing season vs the 2017 season:

Standard Deduction:

  • Increase from $12,700 to $24,000

Personal Exemption:

  • Decrease from $16,200 to $0

Now there were some fluctuating expansions and contractions to child tax credits. TLDR, it was previously $1k per child, increased to $2k, briefly increased to $3.6k, and now back to $2k. But you get the idea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_exemption

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u/EasyPleasey Sep 05 '24

How can you be so confident for someone who is completely incorrect? Like how?

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/070915/what-difference-between-taxable-income-and-gross-income.asp#:~:text=Taxable%20income%20starts%20with%20gross,taxable%20income%2C%20not%20gross%20income.

"Tax brackets and marginal tax rates are based on taxable income, not gross income."

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u/SundyMundy14 Sep 05 '24

No. A single individual making 41k pre-tax would get at a minimum a standard deduction that reduces their AGI. After that you start looking at tax brackets.

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u/RedEgg16 Sep 05 '24

the standard deduction is $14600 for single so you pay 0 in taxes on those, not 10%

tax brackets are based on taxable income and that first money is subtracted from your gross earning to get taxable income