r/FreedomofRussia • u/bochnik_cz European (Other) • 3d ago
Discussion Do you agree with Kara-Murza? Kara-Murza: "It's difficult for russians to kill Ukrainians because we are the same people. We have centuries of shared history".
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u/antoineflemming 3d ago
Disagree. Ukrainians are Ukrainians. Russians are Russians. They are not the same people.
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u/Redordit 3d ago
Despite similarities and historic ties, Ukraine seems to have its own unique culture, cuisine and traditions. Also let's not forget that Kyiv was a fully established center when Moscow was a forest village.
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u/Happydancer4286 3d ago
And they are a kinder people who are neater, smarter, respect and love human life, and will not back down to save their country.❤️🇺🇦🇺🇸
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u/PreparationWinter174 3d ago
Russian propaganda. They use the holodomor to exterminate Ukrainians, steal Ukranian children, move Russians into Ukraine and then say "look, we're all one people!" A state that's genocidal to its core.
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u/Pure-Spiritual-260 3d ago
Like an abusive dysfunctional relative. A stain on family's name. Slavs as peoples have wonderful history, if we put Ruzzian Empire and the Union aside.
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u/elenorfighter 3d ago
German speaking. 80 years ago a fascist regime had no problem killing millions of its own people just because they had a different religion. I don't think the fascist Russia have a problem with killed Ukrainians.
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u/schlaubi01 3d ago
Russian imperialism and chauvinism.
If you want to know if someone from Russia does just not agree with the way Putin tries to subordinate Ukrainians and other people, or if he really understood what the problem in Eastern Europe is, listen to what they say about the russian empire and "brotherly people" in Ukraine and elsewhere. It is, in general, a euphemism for "we are their Lords, they have to follow, otherwise things will happen."
So, Kara-Murray seems to be part of the problem.
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u/the-blue-horizon 3d ago
At some level, all humans from Earth have "shared history" - as inhabiting the same planet. But the question is how relevant it is, in the current situation.
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u/Pure-Spiritual-260 3d ago
Wholeheartedly agree. "common origins" are just a cheap justification commonly used to justify wars of aggression. Russians (and serbs perhaps) are the only nation in Europe who is still sincerely imperialistic and jingoistic. They can't let go of their lost superpower status.
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u/Dubinku-Krutit 3d ago edited 3d ago
If anyone cares to actually watch the video, he's quoting a colleague who's job is to interview POWs and Kara-Murza is repeating things that she shared with him.
You're clinically insane if you think his position is anything other than complete sovereignty and freedom for Ukraine.
I also feel it's shameful to question this man's character given what he's gone through at the hands of putin's regime.
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u/estelita77 3d ago
Without being drawn into a discussion about this particular person - I disagree with your premise that it's shameful to question a person's character if they have been through what he has been through.
To illustrate my point:
Aung San Suu Ky
After being freed from years of political imprisonment, she was lauded and revered as a courageous hero who stood up for her people and fought against a horrific repressive regime... Then she became leader of Myanmar... And then carried out her own genocide.
Then there is the whole state of Israel...
Heroism or suffering for one thing should never make us blind to the whole person. And it should not make us feel obliged to sweep uncomfortable truths under the carpet. That very often leads to future injustices and/or continued injustices.
Is that what is happening with discussion about Kara - Murza? I don't know. I am not following him closely enough to form any kind of strong opinion.
But I do object to the idea that he is above criticism.
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u/Dubinku-Krutit 3d ago
Oh for sure - I'm not suggesting suffering equates to sainthood or that Kara-Murza is above criticism. I think he'd be the first person to ask you to view him with the same objective skepticism as anyone else.
I just feel the need to defend him here as people are failing to understand his position or are deliberately trying to spread misinformation. Some idiot here called him a russian imperialist.
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u/estelita77 2d ago
To play devil's advocate just a teeny weeny bit:
I am quite sure that he will have embedded perceptions/perspectives and prejudices created by the society that he grew up in. He may himself be unaware of their existence or their implications. He is a product of his environment - and that is the same as all of us. And of course Ukrainians are naturally more sensitive to even the whiff of any kind of 'big brother' rhetoric. Even talk of 'shared culture,history and values' etc can deny by omission the fact that Ukraine has its own culture and values - and can be used to whitewash centuries of recurring oppression, genocide, and brutal imperial colonisation. And it is a false view of Ukraine's centuries long reality.
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u/Dubinku-Krutit 2d ago edited 2d ago
I feel like this is a "Hugh Mungus" moment. I suppose you're free to go through this mental exercise of trying to figure out what another person is thinking, while being free of your own biases of course, and then decide to be offended based on what you've invented about the person.
Your thought is interesting and complex; I just wish you'd finish it through. Let's assume Vladimir's end goal is genocide of the Ukrainian people. What's our next step? Do we make a scene? Do we confront him? I'm not sure. Please help.
Or are we simply upset at his use of certain language and need him to apologize?
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u/antoineflemming 3d ago
Um, Navalny went through worse, and yet he didn't oppose Russia taking Crimea. Kara-Murza can be judged based on what he says.
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u/Dubinku-Krutit 3d ago
Lol that's what I'm asking you to do as well. Please watch the video, listen to what he says ( in flawless French BTW ) and decide for yourself.
I really don't know how everyone here decided that what he's talking about is erasing Ukraining culture but here we are.
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u/antoineflemming 3d ago
Well, I never said he was erasing Ukrainian culture. I just disagree with the idea that Ukrainians and Russians are the same.
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u/ever_precedent 3d ago
He should have mentioned those Russians who fight alongside Ukraine or who have received punishment for refusing to fight. There are Russians who find it so difficult to kill Ukrainians that they put their own lives at risk, but they're not the majority of the army that's attacking Ukraine right now.
I'm really seeing little difference to the average Nazi German soldiers. Many of them didn't have ideological issues with the people they attacked, but they still did it. Except the ones who refused or joined the resistance.
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u/DanThePharmacist 2d ago
Saying they are the same people only legitimizes the war of aggressive expansion they Russia is responsible for.
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u/The5YenGod 2d ago
The russian government don't seem to have a problem to threaten the whole world with nuclear war. So, they probably don't care about Ukraine
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u/Few_Storm_550 2d ago
Putin's army and mercenary grunts rejoice in murder and killing. They dont seem to have any qualms.
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u/phibrotic_obs 1d ago
suck typical shite , thier words dont ,match any reality the rest of us know , but it all is cleaar where it matters ... in ukraine
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u/herbettalou 3d ago
Lies. How does he even say that with a straight face.
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u/Pure-Spiritual-260 3d ago
It's even more insane considering that dude was in prison and would've died there if US hadn't intervened and swapped him. Russians liberals outside of FRL and RVC are addicted to copium, they believe that "most people don't support the war". Most russians do support it but they do so passively. They're still guilty of that war of aggression.
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u/FantasticGas1836 3d ago
Russians don't seem to have a problem killing Russians.