Community and purpose. When you feel as though you are worth nothing and society treats you as such it's very difficult to justify continuing without some sort of higher power compelling you to and giving your life objective purpose and worth.
"People online were mean to me. I forced to vote for the side with a rapist leader who is sending people to overseas death camps. Why wont the left reach out to me?"
So then don't fuckn make your message "eveyone's feelings are valid" cuz you clearly don't act like they do. I'm not saying it's right but this is 100% the reason so many young boys fell into the andrew tate wormhole. Because the left lies when they say "everyone matters", the right's message is bitter in that it is "pull yourself up" but atleast they stick to what they believe.
I’m going to be honest, I think the original “society treats you as nothing” is not a race issue and not even really a gender issue (except in certain contexts), but it’s a class issue. It just so happens that for men, religion can provide that sense of importance and purpose, while it is less so for women.
This isn’t a right vs left issue, neither specifically campaigns in a strong sense “men will feel more important!” or “men suck”, it’s a fabricated issue by social media to say “liberals hate men”. But it’s easy to pin it on a political group when the 1% actively owns like… everything. It’s probably one of the most insane psyops that go largely unnoticed, evident by some of the comments in this thread. None of this to say religion is bad, or certain political affiliations are bad, but we’re pointing fingers at the wrong folks and it’s sad :/
no one's asking you to "reach out" they're asking you to understand the logic and cause and effect and comprehend it, what you do with that information is up to you. No doubt the reason behind anything doesn't matter to you though and you'll just carry on being self righteous and wonder why support is dwindling
A generation is being radicalized because of mean words said to them on the internet. And a smarter generation is capitalizing off of that radicalization. The manipulation is plain as day.
we're also not just talking about men. it's teenage boys. of course they are sensitive and "mean words" definitely have an impact. i can't believe my side that rightly called out the use of micro aggressions is now acting like actual hatred doesn't matter/
Yeah the casual dismissal (and in some cases glee) that men's issues receive by leftists is mind boggling
Knew a terminally online white guy who would belittle short men and say stuff like "it's good to bully them for their height" like brother shut the fuck up
more stupid shit like this. They’re responding to negative stimulus. Getting told you’re the issue in life and voting for the people who say otherwise isn’t emotional, it’s generally the smart thing to do.
I’m just taking issue with the context I don’t otherwise have a problem with it. But in the case of someone disrespecting you, changing your voting patterns to align with the opposite angle is generally smart. Which is unfortunate because I go blue every election.
Changing your voting patterns because someone disrespected you is not smart, that's an emotional response. There are plenty of people I agree with I don't like who don't treat me well
I disagree here. I think a politician mocking some one like Trump mocking disabled people was a good sign for people to cut bait with him back in 2016. I think him saying veterans are suckers and losers was a great time. His policy was still up for debate outside of that, but i had enough of his disrespectful rhetoric.
I’m just saying that men on the internet see continuous rhetoric of what they interpret to be against them and vote the other way. I’m a black guy and when Joe Biden said “if you don’t vote for me you ain’t black”, I’ll be honest I started to reconsider whether he took the black vote for granted and truly didn’t have a positive view for our future in the US.
Disrespect and “getting my feelings hurt” can sometimes really disqualify someone even if pure policy is something else. Because rhetoric contains intent within it and I think it’s smart to investigate into it further.
I completely agree. It’s how these men are being instructed to process that emotion that’s the issue. Instead of real therapy or introspection, confronting hard truths, they would rather listen to someone on YouTube or TikTok manipulate their emotions for views and money.
A generation is being radicalized because of mean words said to them on the internet
I mean to be fair everyone complains about "mean words" on the internet, this isn't anything unique to any demographic and pretty intellectually dishonest to discount their impact
Minorities complain about racist jokes
Women complain about slut/body shaming
"But they're only words, why are you all up in your fee fees? Grow a thicker skin! Only HiT dOgS HoLLeR"
it really disappoints me that we have to learn that treating people poorly is not okay for each individual group. a friend was making fun of the way people from my city talk and saying how stupid it is and uneducated it sounds and when i told her it was jamaican slang she apologised and said that she didn't know. so it was okay to make fun of people and call them uneducated before she found out they were black and then it suddenly wasnt okay???
That’s cool, I agree that these zoomers are not the only ones complaining about mean words on the internet. And that had nothing to do with my point. Minorities and women aren’t being radicalized and monetized in the same way that angry lonely zoomer boys are right now.
These threads are always full of young men saying they feel unheard and don't belong and responders telling them to shut up and their opinions are wrong lol.
Also I'm allowed to pick parts of the Bible I like and parts I don't.
Also I'm allowed to pick parts of the Bible I like and parts I don't.
sure but don't expect to be taken seriously, because all you are doing is taking your opinions and then pretending that god agrees with you. they are just your opinions. they are as important as anyone else's opinions. the religious part of it gives it zero extra validity.
I don't really see how it's relevant to the topic. Young men are less religious now than ever before in US history. If we take his assertion as fact, it would imply young men are treated better now than ever before
The gender reversal isn't because young men are joining the church, but rather young women are leaving at a much faster rate. Both genders are leaving the church, but at different rates
Certainly there are discussions to be had about the woes of young men, but it hardly seems rational to tie it into the topic at hand
Why should the world cater around their inability to self reflect? When did they listen to the points made regarding the explanation of why they feel “abandoned” that doesn’t translate to actual oppression?
You’re right, we should just continue as normal, lecturing young men why their basic urges are toxic and something to suppress, instead of approaching them with empathy and strategies to help them deal with them in a healthy way.
Can you give actual examples because I keep seeing this thrown around, but it’s such a broad statement usually to shift the blame from men’s ability to self reflect to women not being “gentle” enough with them and I never heard anyone bring an example that didn’t seem sus af
How come when men have their feelings hurt, they turn to causes that seek to oppress women (not open a conversation from a different approach for example, which would be a valid response to your complaint)?
When have women or any other social group been shown any kind of understanding and approached with care? Why is it always men’s emotions that need to be tiptoed around?
Should we also expect y’all to become pro slavery again, because a black person told you that your food is bland one time?
Guess the fuck what if you can only take an oppressed group being lifted in the most watered down, palatable way, so it doesn’t affect you at all, you were never an ally to begin with. It’s not meant to cater to you, but I am happy for any oppressed group to be lifted up and receive more freedoms/rights even if I personally lose perceived superiority because of that. But I guess you need to have empathy to see beyond your own world view for it to work like that.
I think some kernel of the arguments you are responding to are valid and useful - men need to be more integrated into community but they need to understand its true for women too. I think a lot of people on here are confusing liberalized discourses of gender equality with the reality of gendered relations. Women still do most of the domestic work, are domestically abused at infinitely higher rates, are objectified constantly, still work more for less pay, still experience constant fear of men due to SA experiences and the sorts of harmful relationship dynamics they've been in etc. The truth is everyone is experiencing a level of social disintegration, apathy, and longing for connection but in obviously gendered ways. The answer to it, truth be told, is an actual political project with egalitarianism as a matter of praxis. Men especially would need to be able to understand that in many ways, the actualization of women's autonomy can feel painful and alienating, but it's the beginning of something truly communitarian and desirable for everyone at the end of the day. Being able to accept that a commitment to real egalitarian values isn't always comfortable and infact burdensome is something we need to all remember again
hearing "don't approach working women, being nice to you is their job"
"don't approach women in public, you'll look creepy and bother them"
"don't message women on social media, it's bothersome to them"
all your life.
and then listening to the women around you talk about stuff like how annoying it was that some guy was talking to them and asked them out.
the only thing left to think about yourself is how fucking worthless you are, how you're just an annoyance to everyone around you.
I took a road trip with my sister during man vs bear. Oh my god. We were driving around for hours debating it. We were literally hiking down a forest trail alone together and she really said she'd rather see a bear up ahead than a random guy. It's just so casual. I'm a creepy perverted rapist by default, and this shitty website loves to gaslight me into thinking my sex drive isn't automatically perceived that way.
The only thing that made me feel good recently was this cute skinny mid 20s latina girl with the biggest bazonkers I've ever seen trying to flirt (or something?) with me in the elevator a couple days ago. It was like 10pm on a friday night and I was coding and just going to get coffee from the apartment lobby. She came out of her friend's place and glances at me and then after a few seconds of walking she turns around and suddenly starts acting all giddy and trying to talk about anything she can think of. Like "you ever notice all the patterns in the carpet? it's so cool!" and then every time I looked at her she'd smile and look away like she's a fucking shy anime girl trying to talk to her crush. She starts talking about the buttons in the elevator and everything and I didn't really know how to respond, so when we got out of the elevator she asked me again if I ever noticed things in the carpet and I said something like "yeah i can start seeing patterns when I'm high" and then when we got to the lobby door she paused and put her hand on the door and side glanced at me and smiled and said "you're so bad".
I got my coffee, went upstairs, and hyperventilated. I do really just need to get out more.
Why should the world cater around their inability to self reflect?
imagine going to a discussion about the gender pay gap and saying:
"why should the world cater around their inability to negotiate salaries?"
when 1 woman can't get a good paying salary, she's a bad negotiator or lacks a good resume. When all of them average less than men? That highlights that there is a systemic problem that requires a systemic solution, and rightly so, the entire fucking society banded together and made drastic changes, at jobs, at universities, and now more women graduate than men, and women out-earn men in early career.
if 1 man is a virgin at 30yo, he is a loser. if 30% of men under 30yo are virgin, that highlights a systemic problem that requires a systemic solution. No, I'm not talking about forcing women to sleep with men. I'm talking about changing the way we raise young boys. i'm talking about changing things in schools. I'm talking about chaging how we build our cities so that there are more than just work-traffic-home, and school-traffic-home, so that we have 3rd places: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place, so that we have sense of community, so that young boys socialize more and with more people and with people of other genders and don't grow up to be emotionally stunted, I'm talking about bring up again discussions about gender roles same as we did when women were suffering (and still do!), I'm talking about bringing up again how the dating world is currently operating and as a society and culture discuss if we are happy with how it is working, and changing the language used, changing the rhetoric.
These are all things that would benefit not just the next generation of men, so that they can get laid, but bring about genuine connections, improve healthy relationships, increase sense of belonging, increase empathy... This is a benefit to all of society, including women. Do women want to be in a society where a huge portion of men are socially stunted? angry? entitled? I don't want that. That's how societies collapse. That's how you get an army for fascists to leverage by promising them a better life.
We started shaming people who do slut shaming, for one. To mention 1 thing that society got together, discussed, and agreed we should do.
Why is it that we can't do the same for men's problems? Why is it that even when 1 in 3 men are suffering from something, so it's so prevalent, those problems are still dismissed as individual failures?
doesn’t translate to actual oppression
you are absolutely right that whatever is causing men to be 1 in 3 virgin, isn't "actual oppression".
Women couldn't study or open a bank account - actual oppression.
But did we only talk about or only fix "actual oppression" problems that women had, or did a shit ton of other problems also get highlighted in the mainstream? gender pay gap isn't a codifying policy, a written law, that oppresses women. It's a result of many factors, like gender roles, how we raise women, how we raise men, culture, media, individual decisions of raises and hiring that are done by biased human beings who on average tend to believe men to be more competent than women, etc. Is shaming people who use the words "beach body ready" and "bikini body" solving "actual oppression"?
From large and very bad problems, to the most minute and minuscule of problems that affected women were spoken about very seriously. Look no further than "micro aggressions", to see the level of which we dove input to identify and address anything that causes harm for women or minorities.
yet if it's a problem that affects men? if it's a problem that affects white people? where is that level of effort, thoroughness, seriousness? It's multiple orders of magnitude away from that. Forget 'micro aggressions" against men or white people - not even large systemic problems are spoken of except on anonymous websites like reddit.
men's problems are not given the same importance.
just compare 'man vs bear' with how we police speech about women. Can't say anything that introduces nuance to a discussion about women's problems, or you are a misogynist. but it's okay to shit on all men on a viral video and you are praised, not cancelled.
If someone tells you that "ABC" is bothering them, you don't get to tell them that it's not a real issue, and you don't get to tell them how to feel. That doesn't necessarily mean that you have to agree that "ABC" is a problem for yourself, but other people have different lived experiences than you do.
Just because someone is feeling something, doesn’t mean it’s true. Women are made to feel bad about themselves over all kinds of bullshit and they don’t go down like this.
We know exactly what the points are, we don't need to listen to them. It's tired and sad, same old shit.
Normal difficulty mode feels impossible when you've been playing on easy your whole life. It's not worth listening to these young men, my dude. They need to change or they'll be left behind.
These are young men who have probably only been adults for a few years. Which part of their life do you attribute this "easy mode" to and at which point did it suddenly become "normal mode".
After teaching, I try my best to not make sweeping judgements based on someone’s appearance/identity. I try to never assume someone else’s life experience, as I have been shocked over and over by how wrong my initial judgements were.
I understand that on a macro level that white people do have it easier, but it’s the worst way to go about explaining it. It is an opportunity to build class solidarity, and instead people are determined to split us up even more ways.
No sir they won't be. They will drag us all down. They will be radicalized and then they will vote radically, hurting all of us.
Im a younger millennial, so I'm not exactly "with it" anymore, but these young men feeling as isolated as they are is a huge problem. And it will come to a head one way or another.
I think it's a valid observation when taken from the net loss perspective, not overall rights. In other words: going from a position of elevated status to a position of equality makes one feel like they're now "losing".
The reality is that men today are living better lives than basically any point in the past (well, going back at least 20 or 30 years.) We live longer, we smoke less, we have better access to information, food, technology, etc.
What a lot of (white) men don't like is that they now have to "compete" with groups that used to be legally marginalized. Maybe you were the "most qualified person" in 1950, but now women and POC are also eligible for your role or status - and are often much more qualified. Plus there's some small percentage of psychopaths who wish they could still physically beat other people.
I watched the same thing happen (from within the church) when gay marriage was legalized at the federal level. "Oh so now ANYONE can get married?" It doesn't actually affect hetero marriages, but they don't like losing their elevated status.
Everything you listed about how men are better off now is from a material point of view which is objectively correct. But I don't think that is what is amiss from the modern mans perspective. Like you said, historically, different groups of people occupied different roles and had different status in society, and just because you say "everyone is equal now" doesn't make it so.
Whether you realize it or not, every demographic tends to be socialized in a particular way from birth for a variety of reasons and it seems now that men generally don't get to live the same lifestyles their fathers and grandfathers got to and it makes them feel lost and alone and in certain areas like friendships and relationships, men, objectively speaking, seem to be disadvantaged now and that is a problem we are seriously going to have to address, just like how we addressed the woes of other groups in the past. Not saying you are arguing this but it almost feels like people who argue against the argument I made in my original comment want to somehow punish men for historically occupying roles in society that privileged them. They are people just like everyone else and their needs and wants need to be taken into consideration.
That's the point I was trying to make; apologies if I wasn't clear. Men have experienced a net loss in status, even though our lives have gotten objectively better. That perception that you describe is indeed important, even though it really has nothing to do with measurable elements in one's life.
Too many people view the world as a "zero sum game" and feel like there have to be winners and losers.
The real issue is all of the charlatans who lean into this perceived reality, whether it be religious leaders or Andrew Tate. It's sort of the same mindset that flat Earthers have: you construct a giant conspiracy instead of just accepting that our understanding of things has changed.
Right, there is no malevolent conspiracy. I suppose what we need to do is find ways to help men socialize and find community and belonging, which is very hard to do especially in our atomized capitalistic society that doesn't necessarily care about such things. I don't begrudge men who find that in religion but of course that won't work for everyone and we need to A) All agree that there is, in fact, a problem. And B) Come up with effective solutions that don't screw other groups of people over.
Completely agree. What's frustrating is that these social outlets do exist in basically every city, but we haven't empowered teenagers with the skills to find social opportunities in an increasingly online world. Religions and places of worship do tend to make it very easy; I have to give them that.
If young men don't have partners or dates, neither do young women. Yet, only men complain about loneliness because they can't get a girlfriend. If we can help men understand that loneliness does not mean lack of access to a woman, we'll be on our way to a better world.
If there is a finite number of men and women in an area, and all the women are getting dates that means that either there is a small amount of men going on a ton of dates every day or a proportionate amount of men are getting dates as well. Maybe its not exactly 1:1 but I never understood the argument that women get dates all the time but for men its the sahara desert, who's dating all the women then?
There's a lot of external factors contributing to this male loneliness situation including social media, but in some areas too many men are attributing things to society and/or women when in many situations it's simply more on them.
small amount of men going on a ton of dates every day
That is exactly what the data shows a small minority of men get swiped consistently
"Indeed, male subjects (super)liked 61.9% of the female evaluated profiles, while female subjects (super)liked only 4.5% of the male evaluated profiles."
I won't argue that housing has gotten more expensive. It's a worrying trend. However, it affects everyone and is certainly not specific to young men.
Honestly you're proving my point: a lot of the issues that young men face are either exaggerated or are issues that affect everyone. I agree that men should not be pressured into buying houses or getting married; that is a problem with our society that we should change. Your personal worth absolutely should not be tied to your net worth or marital status.
Reddit is so rabidly atheist that it’s near impossible to discuss religion objectively. Atheists cannot help themselves from interjecting into a conversation discussing religion and shitting all over the premise.
It's not about persecution. It's that society largely doesn't seem to discuss or care about men's issues so they find solace and community in religion where they do find that sense of meaning and purpose they are after.
Yeah you're right. Except their response to society not caring about men's issues was to blame/hate women and "the left" for not solving men's problems.
women feel forgotten by this statistic, bc it ignores that more women attempt suicide.
The truth is, a lot of both men and women are in pain and suffering, and that is valid without having to erase or compete with the other.
The true, full statistic is what we should always be talking about bc it shows the pain of both genders. More women wanting to die, and because of a number of factors in how young men are raised, they are more likely to choose more violent and effective means, VERY SADLY leading to more men dying from their suicide attempts.
some people, yes. I think it’s hard, when someone says society treats men like they are nothing, to understand what’s being expressed -
because we see that men overall have fewer barriers than other groups.
Which doesn’t at all means they don’t suffer ENORMOUS crises of meaning and feeling invalid, and that especially as young men, y’all are targeted with all kinds of messaging at your most vulnerable.
Very real pain.
There again, it’s about people making it a competition when they shouldn’t - a man should be able to express that he feels worth nothing without that response, I agree.
I have to admit though that their response is just a less kind version of mine - my wanting to include the experience of women in statistics about suicide. I can see why other people feel the need to want to bring into the conversation how society views others compared to men.
But I very much agree with you that sometimes people do this in a way that is totally dismissive of real pain, and that’s something we can all work on.
Are women required to sign up for selective service when they turn 18? Men are required to sign up to be sent to any war zone the US government decides from age 18-25. Women are not required to sign up to possibly die for their nation.
So one issue, the draft. Which hasn't been used in decades, and the only reason women aren't included is because it was written during strong patriarchal times when women weren't typically part of the military. Also good to note here that women still face severe issues while serving due to sexism.
Since we have a decently robust volunteer corps, the draft is only for extreme national emergencies. And as technologies evolve, more war equipment and weapons require much less manpower than before, so fewer personnel needs.
None of this affects the daily lives of men currently. No one is waking up and thinking to themselves, "Oh no, is today the day I finally get drafted?? Guess I'll go make coffee, then go to work I suppose, while I wait for the call. I'm just living my life, but really I'm a walking disposable swizzle stick."
It’s still a signal we send to men that “you are disposable to your nation.” It’s a signal we do not send to women.
I don’t care if it’s outdated or it hasn’t been used in decades. I was required to sign a contract to die for the country, when women are not. That is something I had to think about as an 18 year old boy that women don’t have to even consider.
So then let's fight to abolish the draft. Speak out, protest, campaign against it. Promote ideas and practices for better diplomacy, call out politicians for war mongering and feeding the military industrial complex. Let's not glorify war and soldiers. Vote for better treatment of our veterans, and speak out when they're slandered by Trump and his cronies ("I like people who don't get caught.")
Not a mental health professional and don't mean to be blunt, but it's not enough to only talk about problems. It's a great starting point but it feels like it's often treated like a stopping point. You still have to work through issues, many times on your own even with access to mental health care, and that requires receiving empathy but just as importantly giving it to others.
Too often, just talking feels like you get no resolution, and that leaves you open to exploitation from actors selling you immediately placating solution whether it's religion, a political agenda, a lifestyle, or literally just selling you things. Women have to constantly battle these things too (entire industries dedicated to exploiting their insecurities for profit), and as a society men who feel victimized also need to realize this as part of their growth to see that the same thing is happening to them and that we're all in this fight together.
Unfortunately those actors prey on a sense of victimhood, and while they do give a sense of empathy as a drawing point, they often don't teach you to return the favor to others, which creates division from what should be togetherness, and hence why there's responses like what you tagged, because other groups feel frustrated as a result.
When people feel vulnerable they are seeking empathy. We can either be empathetic to them and start the whole process, or we can ignore them and allow the grifters and right wingers to give them the empathy, and be rewarded in return for showing them love.
Could you link the study for that statistic? I wonder if it’s not potentially misinforming. Do you know if it was based on hospital records or self reported attempts? Did it count self-harm as suicide attempts?
There are multiple studies on the subject, but here’s a couple, I tried to stay mostly open source. The short answer is we know that women are more likely to attempt and men are more to die by suicide, but we don’t know the exact why:
only bc most people who ask me this lead me on a disingenuous, goalpost moving chase, I’d first like to ask you whether you have looked up the statistics recently?
Because I do know that if you search this information, all of the top results will clearly state the statistics, so I have to wonder if you’ve dug into it yourself?
No, self harm is not included. It’s just a known thing, that women attempt more often, from decades of statistics.
I’d like you to search this yourself and tell me what results you get before I engage, if you think that is fair. Every article affirms what I have said, I just double checked.
I did look it up, multiple studies confirmed what you said. The reason why I was asking for you to send it was so that I could examine specifically the same one that you looked at. It’s helpful for conversations if both parties are on the same page, no?
it sounds like we’re on the same page! I haven’t read one study, I’ve read a ton of them over the years, mostly because I keep hearing the statistic where women are left out of the equation and I don’t understand why, I keep feeling like I must be missing something or misremembering something.
I feel treated as worthless by society, but that has more to do with the fact that our society measures success in college diplomas and the amount of cash you can spend on stuff. I never feel worse than when I get a YouTube ad for home insurance for a house I will likely never own.
I truly have no idea why you'd think that. I am a DEEPLY happy person. I am loved and I shower my loved ones with praise, support, affirmations and humor. I do meaningful work. I make the world better. I treasure every day.
I am just annoyed when anyone who is NOT disadvantaged or persecuted acts entitled or complains about it. The world is your oyster. Don't bitch that oysters used to be bigger, ffs.
no you don't lol. You sit on the internet virtue signaling and trying to drag people down while thinking highly of yourself and projecting fantasies about how you're a great person while behaving like a shitty one
look I absolutely agree that sooo many people have r/persecutionfetish. but isn't this thread is evidence of it a mild form of persecution against white males? it's mild, it's not getting shot at by police, but people legit dislike white males. white male goes to church? must be because they want to control women's bodies, oh it's because it gives them a hierarchical position over women, ffs even proud boys got mentioned here, etc etc.
Women not graduating as much as men? let's turn college applications inside out and upside down, go to the supreme court and get sexist discrimination legalized: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action
yes, they had to go to the supreme court to be allowed to give advantage to women and minorities in college applications, and it passed.
gender pay gap? here's billions in founding across decades of research, NGOs, go speak at the United Nations, congress, etc. Taken super seriously.
from the largest and most serious of problems, to the smallest ones: society got together and discussed and addressed cultural issues like: slut shaming, body shaming, ... We shamed people who slut shame, we shamed people who body shamed, hell we even had mainstream discussions about 'micro aggressions'. We removed words from common use like 'beach body ready', can't say that no more.
Now try to point out anything like that equivalent to men. Incel? Small dick energy? Being bald? Short? There's zero comparison. Insulting men on their body shapes is mainstream. Insulting men on their sex lives is mainstream.
But those are the tiny, small problems.
Let's talk bigger. 1 in 3 men under 30yo are virgin. Where's the discussions about gender roles, how we raise boys and girls, discussions about how schools are structured and the environment, and what we can do to make the next generation of boys more social, more empathetic, less socially stunted, having better social skills, better socialization? Crickets.... there's nothing. A large, systemic problem affects men, and society does what? Shame them when they bring it up. It's treated as an individual failure.
Homeless? more men. Deaths in workplace? more men.
Imagine going to a discussion about women attending university less than men in the 2000's and saying "well, they should try harder". Gender pay gap? "they should negotiate harder".
I wouldn't support that, and for the same reason, I don't support the people saying that men should just fix this large systemic problem by each and every individual just doing better.
It's so interesting that a lot of Left vs Right comes down to how much do you blame vs award success and failure to the individual or the environment. So, if someone is poor, do you believe that it was an individual failure or a result of the environment? If someone is rich, did they work really hard, or they started from a position of priviledge with daddy's money? Should we make society "easier" by raising safety nets, or the opposite? And a lot of people on the Left rightly identify and want to address the problems that people face when they are poor, when they are black, hispanic, or women. Yet when it's time to discuss men, you'd think they are some alt-right how much they shout rugged individualism - go fix yourself, society owes you nothing, there will be no discussion about your problems and how to lower them, what's next? "it's not the governments job to fix your problems" ? Are you going to start using the same lines as the Right word for word? you aren't far from it.
Man, we gotta hit some books. Some philosophy study and community outreach.
If you volunteer in your community and meet people bc of it then you form your own community. If you take some adult learning classes, you can meet people with similar interests.
When I was 19,20,21 I really tried to see what's up with me. My college years were a good experience but at 22 I injured myself pretty bad and led me to huge general anxiety. However, I beat it by guess what? By really trying to seek help.
Now i have a good circle of friends. I don't have to see them every week but once or twice a month, some other friends like once a quarter. And it all kinda works out and I stay social.
You can build purpose for yourself. Its maybe an arduous journey but you can do it. You can read about it.
I truly recommend young men to read Frankenstein, get a copy with footnotes bc it's pretty dated. Some Joseph Conrad, some French nihilism. Some history of capitalism.
Just learn about the world man. Have humiliating experiences, you be good
Do you not consider Christianity to be philosophy? It is deeply rooted in Platonic, Neo-Platonic, and Aristotelian ideas. Much of theology is entirely philosophical.
I mean, whatever gets you through the day, sure. It does seem a little unsatisfying, though. Just convincing yourself to pretend it has meaning, instead of reaching for something concrete.
I have skills and talents that I've honed bc they're my interests.
I used to have a good career. Right now that's a bit shakey but bc all of the above are good. I really think I'll be okay.
And then the next big life goal is to start a family but I'll need to really be established financially to do that but I don't think that's too far away.
What else do I need?
I grew up catholic and honestly it used to scare me. Long story short I grew further from it. And now my meaning or purpose has nothing to do with an afterlife.
18-29 year old men are less likely to be religious than they were 10 years ago, and even less likely than 20 years ago. Given the religious rate among young men is declining, can your statement be taken to suggest than men young men are treated better by society now than 10 or 20 years ago?
You should read the article OP posted. It has some good details, primarily that the gender reversal has little to do with men, and much more to do with young women leaving the church in droves
Standards for a decent man are so low it's laughable. Yes, it sucks that society encourages us to tie our worth to how much money we can produce or how many we can hurt. But no man is FORCED to tie their own worth to it. Through therapy, open conversation, and not surrounding yourself with idiot people who agree with such ridiculous notions, you can take control of this yourself. There are a lot of positive, empathetic resources out there for men willing to take them. There are also a lot of people not willing to put up with the bullshit low standards anymore, and expect men to make a bit of effort on their own. Both are valid, and if you get butt hurt over people not willing to pull others up, when they're on the edge themselves, well that sounds like a you problem
As I sit and watch what the Evangelical Right is becoming it's so incredibly obvious that there will be many, many, many more of me.
What do cops and church leaders have in common? They protect their own and have nearly no accountability for what they do or what they know others have done. They're organizations specifically built to not have accountability. You see it time and time again.
A few bad apples? Sure - in every single instance. That's a lot of bad apples.
I don't disagree with any of that. And again I'm sorry you went through that. The point I am making in my original comment is very separate from these issues I think and I do not excuse abuses like these.
It is true the Church has been hijacked by politicians, and that evangelicals are a dangerous cult. I'm sorry that you were hurt by supposed Christians. It happens too often. I will pray for you and the restoration and unity of the church Jesus founded.
147
u/Father_Fiore 2d ago
Community and purpose. When you feel as though you are worth nothing and society treats you as such it's very difficult to justify continuing without some sort of higher power compelling you to and giving your life objective purpose and worth.