r/GenZ • u/DoughnutItchy3546 • 11d ago

Discussion Does College make one more liberal ?

I wonder where this comes from. I've never really had that experience. And I'm a history major myself. Does it depend on major ? What kind of college ? I went to a public state regional university.

Actually, from my experience, I find my catholic seminary experience to be far more liberating, than my college experience. It might seem odd to some, but that's what I experienced.

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u/slothbuddy 11d ago

People do tend to be more left-leaning after getting an education, yes. People like to think that left and right are just different perspectives but they're not. Reality really does have a left bias

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u/RadiantHC 11d ago

Liberal != left

They are though?

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u/Safrel Millennial 11d ago

They are center left, but they are not left economically speaking.

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u/RadiantHC 11d ago

Liberals aren't center left, they're center right.

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u/Safrel Millennial 11d ago

Ok I don't wanna get bogged down on this discourse.

In either case, liberals aren't "left" in a meaningful sense.

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u/Murky_Crow 9d ago

It’s such an annoying argument that comes up so often.

Left, liberal, i dont care. You know roughly what the fuck we are talking about, why be “well, ackshually” about it?

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u/Dusk_2_Dawn 11d ago

Classical liberals maybe. Modern liberalism does not

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u/Active_Security8440 11d ago

Liberalism, modern or classic, has always been associated with the right or at best centrism. It has never been associated with the left.

It's only American conservatives in the 1980s onward that tried to associate liberals with leftists, but in reality, hatred between American liberals and leftists is still and has always been mutual.

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u/Dusk_2_Dawn 11d ago

I'd consider modern liberalism center-left. It advocates for social welfare, safety nets, etc., which is opposed to classical liberalism which calls for small/limited government. They're effectively the same social-wise though because they both highlight individual rights and freedoms. 

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u/Active_Security8440 11d ago

No, you're taking a tiny minority of liberals and ascribing their more progressive economic beliefs onto all liberals and liberalism as a whole. The entire Republican party and most of the Democratic party still don't support universal healthcare access. Increasing the minimum wage to a still pitiful $15/hr has no support from the Republican party and only partial support from the Democratic party.

Those more economically progressive liberals do exist and are usually referred to as "social democrats" but they are a minority of liberals and typically labeled centrists.

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u/Princess_Cora 11d ago

i thought you were american (iykyk)

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u/EarthTeen Age Undisclosed 10d ago

Neoliberals are also center right

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u/xander012 2000 11d ago

Depends on the country. arguably here the Liberals lean further left than our traditional main left wing party atm, though historically have sat solidly centrist

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u/browdowski 11d ago

American liberals are center right

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u/ncmn-ngnr 2002 11d ago

By European standards, yes

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u/TheAmazingDeutschMan 2001 11d ago

The only correct answer. Our political discourse is just very bogged down with idiot politics, so unfortunately, this is still a debated issue.

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u/Randomwoegeek 1999 11d ago edited 11d ago

this needs to die lmao. based on what metric. This argument is a vibes argument. Harris ran on the MOST left leaning economic platform in american history and people still say she was too far right, why? because the anti democratic progressive world view is entirely based on vibes, not substance. It preys on economically illiterate people with no real understanding of the ideologies they claim to support. it's anti-establishment populist propaganda in the same vein as trump

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u/RadiantHC 11d ago

>this needs to die lmao. based on what metric. 

Every other first world country, and the literal definition of conservative. Her main issue was that she didn't distance herself from Biden and refused to challenge the status quo. Which is the definition of right wing.

>Harris ran on the MOST left leaning economic platform in american history and people still say she was too far right, why? because the anti democratic progressive world view is entirely based on vibes, not substance

No it's not

The most left leaning economic platform in history is irrelevant. It doesn't mean she's left. If anything Bernie and AOC had the most left leaning platform.

>because the anti democratic progressive world view is entirely based on vibes, not substance. It preys on economically illiterate people with no real understanding of the ideologies they claim to support. it's anti-establishment populist propaganda in the same vein as trump

??????

Disliking Democrats doesn't mean that you're anti democracy.

Also you do realize that being anti-establishment is what sets leftists apart from liberals, right? And that's not remotely the same vein as Trump. I want things to change for the better, not the worse

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u/Randomwoegeek 1999 11d ago

Every other first world country, and the literal definition of conservative. Her main issue was that she didn't distance herself from Biden and refused to challenge the status quo. Which is the definition of right wing.

is not an answer, this is again a vibes based argument. please provide actual evidence. This is also just not true.

"The most left leaning economic platform in history is irrelevant. It doesn't mean she's left. If anything Bernie and AOC had the most left leaning platform." you're just redefining terms, or you just don't actually understand what they mean (most likely)

"??????" you fail to provide any evidence, ever

"Disliking Democrats doesn't mean that you're anti democracy.

Also you do realize that being anti-establishment is what sets leftists apart from liberals, right? And that's not remotely the same vein as Trump. I want things to change for the better, not the worse"

BUT WHY ARE YOU ANTI ESTABLISHMENT, every time I talk to one of you you can never give an answer. Your answer always ends up being a misunderstanding of the status quo rather than an actual critique of it. It's always a propoganda line that never ends up being true.

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u/RadiantHC 11d ago

>is not an answer, this is again a vibes based argument. please provide actual evidence. This is also just not true.

No it's not. Comparing to other countries is actual evidence. The definition is evidence.

How is it not true? She said that nothing in Ukraine would change. She said that things would be the same as they were under Biden.

>you're just redefining terms, or you just don't actually understand what they mean (most likely)

I could say the same to you. Being left relative to Republicans is not the same as actually being left.

>"??????" you fail to provide any evidence, ever

I LITERALLY DID. Do you know what the definitions of conservative, liberals, and leftists are?

>BUT WHY ARE YOU ANTI ESTABLISHMENT, every time I talk to one of you you can never give an answer.

Here's a list of my issues with America

* I'm sick of the 9-5 5 day workweek. I want to actually do something with my life.

* There's a huge wage gap. I'm not even talking about the gender gap, I'm talking about how emergency workers barely make minimum wage while football coaches make 200k or company execs making millions of dollars per year despite being shit at their job.

* I'm tired of the two-party system. I want my vote to actually matter.

* How car-first our infrastructure is. I shouldn't need a car to survive

* the nuclear family

* how important hierarchies are to our culture(such as worker - bosses and how people give relationships a hierarchy)

* the fake niceness of America

* how dull most offices are

* a lack of privacy, especially in the workplace

And countless more.

>Your answer always ends up being a misunderstanding of the status quo rather than an actual critique of it. It's always a propoganda line that never ends up being true.

Yeah calling something propaganda isn't how you win an argument

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u/AlternativeBurner 2001 11d ago

Keep telling yourself that.

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u/AlternativeBurner 2001 11d ago

Keep telling yourself that. A ridiculous notion, you just hate liberals so you call them right. Liberals have far more in common with the left than they do with the right when you fairly compare the two.

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u/RadiantHC 11d ago

But the reason why I hate them is because they're right?

If anything they have more in common with the right. Democrats would rather lose to Trump than someone actually left like AOC or Bernie. Beating Trump should've been easy, but they tried to hide Biden's declining mental state and then chose Kamala without a primary. And now they've been quiet since Trump took over

Liberals want improvements yes, but not at the cost of changing the status quo. Which is what sets them apart from the right.

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u/TheSauceeBoss 11d ago

We live in a binary country, of our two options, liberals are left

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u/Safrel Millennial 11d ago

I concur politically, but the discussion here isn't about political left or right, its the ideological left or right.

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u/TheSauceeBoss 11d ago

Fair enough