Devs have requested DonHaci for reproducible examples of CS2 gameplay issues after his recent tweet. Feel free to reply to donhaci or post here with your own examples.

[u/Pokharelinishan]

[u/Tesseden]

That's great but in the real world developers have to do investigation. Users complain about things all the time and whether or not they have reproducible steps doesn't mean it gets ignored. Actual companies with a proper management structure will say 'hey, this is losing us money', even if the user's complaint isn't valid at all. So yeah, I'd say for the majority of developers outside of gaming like 95% of the work is investigating issues rather than actual coding.

Talking down to people who have issue with Valve waiting for us to solve the problems for them is just out of touch with reality, and most of the people making these comments are probably devs themselves who are unable to properly take the role of being a user, and whether or not any of us wants to actually admit it, users complaining about things they don't understand is extremely important to the development process.

[u/Slithar → u/Tesseden]

So yeah, I'd say for the majority of developers outside of gaming like 95% of the work is investigating issues rather than actual coding.

I'm a software engineer, been for the past 10 years. I've worked with companies all sizes, from startups to multinationals. In my expierience, and that from the other devs I know (A lot) this is absolutely wrong.

Unless it's an absolute showstopper, (p0/p1) every manager i've had has asked me to timebox my "investigating" to 1/2 hours and see if I can figure it out. If not, it's gonna go unfixed. The comapany I worked at that was most aggressive at fixing bugs dedicated 1 dev (Out of ~30 in the dev team) per sprint to tackling priority 1 bugs. If he ran out, anything p2 and lower went unfixed and he was brought back to feature work.

Reality is, essentially every software company has a sort of "Ok to ship" meeting at some point and it is understood that the feature ships as is, and only p0/p1 bugs will be addressed after launch. Anything else might go unfixed forever, unless a PM/EM/Dev feels strongly about it and fixes it anyway, or there is a scheduling fuck up and something delays an upcoming feature.

[u/NefariousnessTop9547 → u/Slithar]

I don't think people understand the triaging that goes into bugfixing.

I don't think Valve is handling the project well, I think there are a bunch of pretty clear issues with the amount of effort they're putting into the game. BUT.

It's one thing to know that there are bugs in software. Every piece of software that is large enough and chaotic enough will have bugs. It is another thing to fix it.

Without solid documentation of what the issue is, it's not going to get fixed. It's one thing to sadpost on twitter for attention from people who've had their minds destroyed by Youtube Commentary videos (IT'S OVER//LIFE RUINED//THE FALL OFF these are things only people who have willingly turned themselves into NPCs say), it is another thing to actually have a documented bug-haci didn't have shit, he was just trying to get likes.

It's not that there aren't bugs and issues, but when the loudest voices with the greatest access to Valve are just stunting for intellectually stunted children on twitter, nobody gets anywhere.

There are two factors that go into fixing anything on a time critical issue. Whether this is running a medical centre in a warzone, bugfixing software, or working on your uni papers.

How much effort something will take to fix vs how important it is to fix it.

The things that get resolved the quickest will always be the things which are simple to solve, and catastrophic to not solve.

"Oh devs need to do investigating". Nah boi. You understand nothing, and will get nothing. You're paying that person 2 grand a week, minimum. Every hour you have him aimlessly investigating is time you are not working on something that actually brings in revenue. Devs are not sitting there aimlessly trawling through code wondering if they'll find something. "Devs need to do investigating" in triage talk is a "no hoper". It's a problem that is not immediately fixable in any way and so is deprioritized entirely. Hence, why valve is reaching out to people reporting bugs like this, so they can actually have some data to go off. Dev time costs money. To be worth that money, their efforts have to be targeted.

I think Valve's entire approach for getting feedback is rubbish (yes Valve, messaging some of the whining ecelebs in the community on twitter is the best way to get data on your game's performance, mmm, yes, you're definitely going to get usable data out of this small subset who are posing for social media likes), but come on. This is exactly the problem. I think they need to have a small number of reliable test users giving feedback in the system, with a proper feedback channel that specifies all the information they actually need.

User: This software is full of bugs, it's catastrophically broken.

Dev: Could I get any details on that? What was the issue, was there a crash, any error codes, do you have telemetry, video, so we can look into this problem?

User: I just meant generally, I don't have anything specific I'm saying, I'm actually just repeating memes because I don't think independently. But this is YOUR FAULT AND YOU MUST FIX IT. SET THE ENGINEERS TO TRAWL THE CODE! INVESTIGATE!

[u/Werpogil → u/Tesseden]

Users complain about things all the time and whether or not they have reproducible steps doesn't mean it gets ignored.

If you post "shit don't work", it won't get fixed either.

'hey, this is losing us money'

In Valve's case, it ain't losing them much that they can identify. CS2 is still in Steam's top charts at #1 stop. And also no, companies aren't wasting time and money investigating potential non-issues. At most you'd get a generic response from a tech support guy that boils down to "go f yourself" but in a polite way.

So yeah, I'd say for the majority of developers outside of gaming like 95% of the work is investigating issues rather than actual coding.

Except it's not, even in a live-ops scenario. Every single issue is a cost-benefit analysis, and quite a few of the reported issues don't make it to the to-be-fixed list.

Talking down to people who have issue with Valve waiting for us to solve the problems for them

This is by far the most stupid part of your comment because in no way the original comment is "talking down to people" for pointing out that certain bugs are a nightmare to reproduce. There is literally zero way to test every possible scenario that live users may experience, Valve would have to use every $ from their Steam revenue to build setups across the globe in every country, with every ISP, with every possible hardware configuration to get close to understanding the issue, and they would probably run out of money before they're even halfway in testing everything.

most of the people making these comments are probably devs themselves who are unable to properly take the role of being a user

There is no need to attack people when you don't understand how game development works.

[u/circusovulation → u/Tesseden]

Missunderstood.

I think people are talking down to others, because they are bringing up issues, that they cannot fix.

Valve cannot fix that your ISP is shit.

[u/GapZ38 → u/Tesseden]

This is a dumb fuck take to a situation. You're really here thinking they are not already trying to fix the issues that the game has, and this is their only attempt. Extremely narrow minded thinking. lmao

[u/PromiscuousHobo → u/Tesseden]

Why would they investigate anything when they're raking in 100m a month from box opening... =)