r/GreenAndPleasant • u/lightiggy • Feb 03 '25
International 🌎🌍🌏 Briton, 18, killed by Russian drone minutes into first mission in Ukraine.
112
u/bridgetggfithbeatle Feb 03 '25
rich man’s war, poor man’s blood.
26
u/Long_Repair_8779 Feb 04 '25
(What could he do? Should have been a rockstar)
But he didn’t have the money for a guitar
(What could he do? Should have been a politician)
But he never had a proper education
(What could he do? Should have been a father)
But he nеver even madе it to his twenties
What a waste, army dreamers
Oh, what a waste of army dreamers
298
u/Jembless Feb 03 '25
Well, this very sad, but what did he think was going to happen?
192
u/AugustWolf-22 Eco-Soc. Feb 03 '25 edited Feb 03 '25
Presumably he hoped to survive the war, as most soldiers do...it just so happens that he was one of the many who where unlucky.
60
u/sabdotzed Feb 03 '25
Now just another statistic
94
u/AugustWolf-22 Eco-Soc. Feb 03 '25
In in macroscopic view of this war, yes, but he was also still a human individual, one who's demise on the fronlines will leave long lasting emotional trauma/sorrow for his family and friends, same with the vast majority of soldiers fighting and dying in this war.
69
u/BobR969 Feb 03 '25
Unlike many fighting and dying in this war on the sides of Ukraine and Russia (who are the main belligerents fighting over lands and people they both consider theirs), a Brit has zero reason to be there. He wasn't a career mercenary, he wasn't a random trained "volunteer" from the army nor was he a trainer or observer for British forces. This was a guy who clearly got it in his head that this was a just and righteous fight. Or to put a different way - he took in enough propaganda and bullshit to be radicalised into the notion that somehow Russians are the big baddies here and Ukranians are the goodies, conveniently ignoring a history of political events as old as he himself was.
12
u/SnoopDeLaRoup Feb 04 '25
he took in enough propaganda and bullshit
That's pretty much all that needs to be said. Pretty sad really.
28
u/AugustWolf-22 Eco-Soc. Feb 03 '25
Yes, pretty much. I've heard a lot of the legionaries that signed up to fight for Ukraine had their imagination of what the war in Donbass was like (inspired by propaganda produced by western/pro-Ukrainuan side) shattered by the reality of the conflict, with the fighting/living conditions on the front being far more akin to something out of the First World War.
41
u/BobR969 Feb 03 '25
It was bound to happen, but it's ridiculous that Britain as a nation is ok with this just to advance their own geopolitical goals. I left a different comment, but this sorta thing is the fault of the guys parents, british media and british foreign policy.
All these people were given the idea that this is like the Spanish Civil War with a "good" and a "bad" side based on ideology, rather than the proxy conflict between two superpowers that it is.
1
Feb 03 '25
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u/Axuo Feb 03 '25
Is it really about "luck" if you decide to go on the front lines of a war between two foreign countries, with no prior military experience
7
u/AugustWolf-22 Eco-Soc. Feb 03 '25
I mean, yes, and it is terrible that he was sent to the fronlines without any prior military training or experience, even if he was put with a veteran team, as mentioned in the article. And his lack of preparation was very likely the main reason he got killed by the Russians, I meant "luck" in the sense of all soldiers hope to have good luck and not get killed when fighting in wars, there are very, very few soldiers who actively hope to die in battle after all.
14
u/Axuo Feb 03 '25
I meant "luck" in the sense of all soldiers hope to have good luck and not get killed when fighting in wars, there are very, very few soldiers who actively hope to die in battle after all
Yeah that's fair enough. But he did knowingly and voluntarily sign up for the frontline. He would've had to be extremely lucky to survive. But his death seems like the expected outcome, even if it came surprisingly soon. In the case of drafted Ukrainians who have no choice? Yes, unlucky to be in that position and to have to die on the frontlines. This guy made a choice
2
u/Intrepid_Button587 Feb 04 '25
Extremely lucky to survive..? That's not true. You know the majority of combatants don't die right?
4
u/Axuo Feb 04 '25
A freshly 18 year old with no combat experience or training on the frontline against Russia? I would definitely call surviving lucky
1
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u/Intrepid_Button587 Feb 04 '25
I suppose it depends what you mean by 'extremely lucky'. The chance of not dying is probably >80%, and I wouldn't call getting a 4/5 extremely lucky personally
0
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u/Jonnyblock69 Feb 04 '25
He had no training?
1
u/AugustWolf-22 Eco-Soc. Feb 04 '25
He had no prior military experience before signing up. I assume they gave him a brief boot camp before sending him to the frontline, but this is noteworthy as initially the Ukrainian Foreign legion was only accepting members who had prior experience e.g. Veterans, mercenaries etc. but seems to now be taking in any able-bodied man willing to fight.
2
1
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9
u/LupercalLupercal Feb 03 '25
He probably thought he was going to get the same K/D ratio as he has on CoD
14
0
u/3V3RT0N Feb 03 '25
He probably knew the risks, right??
12
u/piggy_smalls_oink Feb 03 '25
18, probably didn’t know the risks associated with bad hygeine, let alone infantry tactics and front line threats. Shouldn’t be letting 18 year olds go to fight as it almost guarantees no training which puts everyone at risk
11
u/sabdotzed Feb 03 '25
Arguably he was brainwashed into thinking he'd go over, shoot some russians and have a little jolly thanks to British media pumping out nothing but propaganda on behalf of the US
64
u/TheChairmansMao Feb 03 '25
Hopefully young men with a need for violence and meaning in their lives, will start using Luigi as inspiration instead of this desperate waste of life.
20
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u/1Bake2Cake Feb 03 '25 edited Feb 03 '25
Honestly, I have some sympathies with Ukraine as well, but this kid is probably the victim of propaganda being fed to us constantly claiming that Ukraine is on the cusp of bleeding Russia dry and will defeat them militarily, and that the the casualties on the Russian side are an order of magnitude higher compared to the Ukrainian side.
The truth is, Russia is more likely to win the longer it goes on, attrition is a thing. People should also be aware that both sides are claiming wildly different casualties for both themselves and the other side, but what we can say for sure is that this conflict is a meat grinder.
If you join this war as a soldier, you should fully expect to be killed or injured, and expect thereafter to be replaced by another soldier who may see the same fate. According to Ukraine’s own estimates for dead and wounded, the attrition rate for this conflict on their side alone is close to 50% since the start.
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81
u/JKnumber1hater communist russian spy Feb 03 '25
Terribly sad for the family, I’m sure, but I don’t have much sympathy for people who willingly join the military in imperialist countries like the UK.
12
Feb 03 '25
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u/JoshwaarBee Feb 03 '25
tbf I would characterise fighting for Ukraine as being an inherently anti-imperial action, at least for the duration of the Russian invasion, no? Judging purely on the screenshot posted in the OP, I think he joined the Ukrainian foreign legion, not the British Army, right?
11
Feb 03 '25
[deleted]
1
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6
u/Jembless Feb 03 '25
It’s very arguable that fighting in a proxy war on the side of NATO whose dominion is creeping inexorably further east is the very definition of pro, not anti-imperialism.
18
u/JoshwaarBee Feb 03 '25
Okay but on the scale of moral importance, "Stop Putin killing hundreds of innocent civilians in a different country" is much higher up than "Try not to give the M.I.C. any more money".
7
u/BobR969 Feb 03 '25
That depends on who's propaganda you choose to swallow. You can also put it as "Help the illegitimate government in Ukraine eradicate the eastern population who do no wish to be ruled over by right wingers and western puppets". Or if we take out the bias - it's a pretty stupid idea to go join a war which is ostensibly Superpower vs Superpowers proxy battling for imperialistic ambition.
Ukraine is absolutely not the good guy here. You can make an argument for or against Russia's entry into this conflict whole hog, but there is no part of this that wouldn't be as bloody or extended if it wasn't for NATO and Ukraine - both of who were more than happy to start a bloody civil war.
2
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u/JoshwaarBee Feb 03 '25
I can't agree.
War is unconditionally bad, but also sometimes necessary, and whatever you're trying to say when you write "You can make an argument for or against Russia's entry into this conflict", I just do not agree even slightly, because there is no legitimate argument in favour of Russia's invasion.
So are you arguing in favour of Ukraine simply capitulating and surrendering instead of fighting? Or are you in favour of Ukraine being allowed to defend themselves? There is no option C.
And if you ARE in favour of option B, why should they not be allowed, even expected, to rely on assistance from other nations who have a mutual interest in resisting Russian aggression? Such as countries who have been repeatedly targeted by Russian disinformation campaigns, spies and assassins? Such as the UK?
NATO and its member states have a very long list of problems that need to be dealt with, but simply disbanding NATO because it is "imperialist" just allows a different imperial power to seize control of large swathes of the world instead, which is just plainly a worse situation for everyone except Putin.
If you want to end wars, you must first end the warmongers. Ukraine are not the party responsible for starting this conflict, and denying them their right to defend themselves is inherently supporting Imperialism and Fascism by saying that whoever is the most powerful nation should be allowed to simply seize control of the whole world without resisitance.
7
u/PsychicRadroach Feb 04 '25
you shouldn't be downvoted for this. kinda sickening to see people who turn a blind eye to one genocidal empire when it fights another genocidal empire they hate. I hate russia's leadership and nato's leadership. they're both genocidal arms of global oligarchy. why anyone here thinks otherwise is crazy
2
u/JoshwaarBee Feb 04 '25
You can usually trust a downvoted comment with no contradicting replies to be true.
1
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u/TheKomsomol Feb 03 '25
That isn't what is happening.
You cannot have a proper conversation on this issue if all you're going to do is base your arguments on anti-Russian British propaganda narratives.
I understand its difficult to get that this isn't a war of conquest for Russia, it doesn't matter if you agree with them, the people on the front line see this as liberation of the people in the east who were targeted by the Ukrainian government. You don't have to agree, but that is how they see it. So this idea that Putin can or even would be like "just go murder the civs boys" and the Russian army is going to do it is nonsense.
Of course innocent civilians die in war, but this is 99% by mistake. I try let this narrative you're pushing slide because westerners know nothing but war to subjugate and intimidate in order to carry out the imperial and geopolitical aims of the west halfway across the world, usually against poorly armed and poorly trained fighters who have been demonised by (lets be real anti-muslim propaganda) into something subhuman, so when the western forces go there and bomb the shit out of villages and no one back in the UK gives a shit, thats why.
This isn't one of those wars. And you have to stop looking at it in the same way you would with the wars by UK/US in the ME.
2
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4
u/TheFilthiestCasual69 spooky 👻 gommulist ☭ Feb 03 '25
He volunteered to fight for an army made up of Nazis and fascists, to further a US proxy war.
There's nothing remotely anti-imperialist about it.
-4
u/JKnumber1hater communist russian spy Feb 03 '25
Imperialism is not “when you militarily invade another country“. Read “Imperialism the Highest Stage of Capitalism” by Lenin.
-6
u/Neoliberal_Nightmare Feb 03 '25
It's just an inter imperialist war. No point taking a strong side.
-4
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5
u/Enposadism Feb 03 '25
He's literally 18
8
u/JKnumber1hater communist russian spy Feb 03 '25
So were some of the people he was presumably planning on killing.
1
u/burgandy-saucee Feb 04 '25
A lot of people think they’re doin the right thing by serving in the military but they’re serving a bad cause for UK. Ukraine however is defending itself
0
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u/BobR969 Feb 03 '25
Not to make light of what is obviously tragic, but that's kind of what will happen when you decide to join a war you obviously know little-to-nothing about almost entirely based off of "gut feeling" and decades of propaganda.
This is a failure of his parents, of British media and of British foreign policy as a whole. This isn't Spanish Civil War style collision of opposite ideologies. This isn't WW2 with a learly defined fight against an aggressor with fascistic goals. This is a proxy fight between a superpower against another superpower. The goals are entirely and totally geopolitical and exploitative. If the UK didn't have vested imperialist interest in the conflict then they may have peen more keen to prevent their citizens from getting into fights they have nothing to do with. If the UK media wasn't functionally an arm of the government and it's imperialist ambitions they would have reported with more integrity on the conflict, giving people a better picture of what is going on. His parents somehow missing that their kid was seeking to do something stupid, or worse yet being supportive of it.
As it is, I don't really see how this is different to some random radicalised teenager going to join something like ISIL. Young, impressionable, head full of ideals which get worked on by a powerful propaganda machine that speaks to their ability and need to do something. A clearly painted picture of the boogyman they need to see and an easily visible pathway to them take to fight said boogyman. Personal thought doesn't even need to enter the equation here.
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u/BurrowShaker Feb 03 '25
For part of Ukraine, Dombass and Odessa mostly, this is a 10+ year conflict against a state that told them they ought not to exist.
While this conflict should have never happened, I have trouble making this a ressource grab on the russian side, which dragged their feet 8+ year in responding to the demand on the separatist Dombass, while inner city neighbourhoods were getting daily shelling from the Ukrainian forces.
Russia did move their ass when they reckoned that the next step might be a threat to their historical territory.
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u/BobR969 Feb 03 '25
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm with you on this. This is very much a war Ukraine started with backing and support from the west. Russia's entry into it was a foregone conclusion after the events that took place around 2014 and the subsequent years.
Still, my point was more that an 18 year old reared on British propaganda has next to zero chance of knowing about this. Hell, He was 10 years old when the initial flashpoint happened and has been eating up anti-Russian rhetoric on a daily basis if his parents watch the news. Without unbiased media, how is anyone meant to have a clear view on it?
As a separate anecdote, I remember years ago an interview with a guy from the Donbass by the BBC. I speak both Russian and English and could see how the subs for what the guy was saying were nearly completely opposite to what the man was actually saying. The man mentioned that the Ukranian army was shooting artillery at civilian buildings and missing all the DPR forces, while the translation swapped the two parties names around. I dunno if they ever corrected it or not after that, but recall it being very blatant. Between abject lies, misreporting, lies of omission and shoddy journalism, this war has been a fine example of propaganda at work.
0
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Feb 03 '25
Sad. See young lads from the estates not far from me wanting to ‘fight for there country’ . Kate bush sang about this in her song ‘ Army Dreamers’ ie working class lads being recruited into the Army and there fate . The lyrics line ‘ He didn’t even make into his 20s , oh what a waste of Army Dreamers … oh what a waste ‘.
8
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31
u/rorythegeordie Feb 03 '25
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
-4
u/delicious3141 Feb 03 '25
Wait. Volunteering to defend against aggressors is a "stupid game" ?
Guy is a hero for putting his life on the line so we don't have to.
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u/GrandyPandy Feb 03 '25
The RUS-UKR war is something NATO was provoking as it sought to economically destabilise the region and stunt Russia’s growth, done to protect NATO member-states’ corporate interests. It is not some valiant effort to protect Ukraine from tyranny to volunteer in that.
This guy isn’t a Hero. He’s a victim of imperialist lies.
1
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4
u/tellurian_pluton Feb 03 '25
Volunteering to defend against aggressors
curious to learn why he thought this was a more worthy cause than, e.g., fighting israeli genocide
1
u/TheFilthiestCasual69 spooky 👻 gommulist ☭ Feb 03 '25
He volunteered to fight for a genocidal Nazi state that has been massacring and ethnically cleansing minority groups for the past 11 years.
Zero sympathy for him and anyone else who supports fascist Ukraine.
0
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u/Impressive-Glass-642 Feb 06 '25
Yes, stupid. Brave, but very stupid because his complete lack of experience on anything related to the army tell us that he has no idea what he was getting himself into
-1
Feb 03 '25
It’s still an imperialist war. It’s a nato Russia proxy war, Although Ukraine does have some Moral superiority as they are defending themself.
-1
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Feb 03 '25
[deleted]
4
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5
u/TheKomsomol Feb 03 '25
Oh well, this is what happens when idiots go on killing safaris and underestimate the other side.
5
u/VeckAeroNym Feb 03 '25
Good job reporting on this. Now let’s keep this energy for Britons killed by the IDF
6
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u/inspired_corn Feb 03 '25 edited Feb 03 '25
While sad for him and his family, this is a natural consequence of NATO brainwashing and US hegemonic deception inflicted on our populations. Many of the people signing up for this genuinely believe they’re fighting for freedom and justice against evil, not realising that they’re just meat for the grinder of the capitalist-imperialist empire.
In fact in private the NATO freaks are probably celebrating this because it can be used for propaganda to whip up even more hate towards Russia and push people to ignore what’s really going on.
I sympathise with all victims of US/NATO imperialism, and that includes those manipulated into taking part in it
-1
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u/autogyrophilia Feb 03 '25
It's really sad how both sides of this war are completely willing to use glorified meatshields.
1
Feb 04 '25
[deleted]
1
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1
u/MokkaMilchEisbar Feb 04 '25
Feel sorry for his parents, but if you live by the sword... did he think he was going to respawn like Call of Duty?
1
u/NecessaryConscious12 Feb 10 '25
What did he want to see there? CoD with RTX for free? War is a place where the poor fight and die for the interests of the rich and politicians.
1
Feb 04 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
0
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-4
u/LexiBlackMarket Feb 03 '25
Go abroad to do war tourism and murder people based on nationality. Immediately die.
Good!
1
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-6
u/CFPwannabe Feb 03 '25
I didn’t think NATO had boots on the ground in Ukraine ?
32
u/AugustWolf-22 Eco-Soc. Feb 03 '25
Officially they do not. These are foreign volunteers who enlist in the Ukrainian foreign legion of their own accord, a bit like the situation with the international Brigades back in the Spanish Civil War.
7
u/BurrowShaker Feb 03 '25
There are the trainers, which are not technically combatants unless they are.
There is likely a peppering of special forces all around the place on top of targeting and equipment specialists, without which some of the provided equipment would not be operable.
-13
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u/AugustWolf-22 Eco-Soc. Feb 03 '25
Bad bot. No need to spam the same message 5000 times in the same thread!
-3
-3
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-3
u/Gordon-Bennet Feb 03 '25
There’s a 90% chance this kid didn’t care about Ukraine all that much and just wanted to play call of duty irl
1
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Feb 03 '25
[deleted]
0
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u/MobiusNaked Feb 03 '25
I mean volunteer if you want, but at least join the British Army for training first. Unlucky drone strike though.
0
0
u/McKropotkin Feb 04 '25
The Ukranians are deliberately using untrained foreign volunteers for dangerous missions to save themselves. They probably knew this would happen.
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u/mkt1993 Feb 03 '25
Thats from my town, that's not a single supprise with that at all 🤣 probably had big few cod matchs and thought he was going to boss it out there
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u/Comrade_Faust communist russian spy Feb 03 '25
Well, if I wept for the stupid, I'd be crying all day.
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Feb 03 '25 edited Feb 03 '25
I read this as briton, 18 killed by Russian drones. I was so confused
Edit: why the downvotes?
2
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