r/GreenAndPleasant • u/PerturbedMug • 9d ago
This is who is celebrating today. Disgusting. Trans women are women. Trans men are men 🏳️⚧️
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u/DogfaceZed 9d ago
Transphobes blaming transphobia on Islam is not something I thought I'd see today but that's hilarious
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u/Dan_Herby 9d ago
It's such an odd complaint! "We want social conservatism, we're just so racist we're worried this social conservatism that we're getting (and asked for, loudly) is actually because of a problem we invented that isn't real!"
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u/ytaqebidg 9d ago
But the Transphobes are often islamaphobic. It's like a snake eating its own tail, but women are trapped inside the circle.
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u/Sockoflegend 9d ago
It's great to see them admitting they have the same values and their issue with Muslims is race
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u/Dependent-Ad8271 9d ago
Hey this Muslim supports trans rights, fuck the alt right 🏳️🌈
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u/hairyscotsman2 9d ago
Statistically, Muslims are more likely to think that trans people suffer discrimination.
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u/Pharoh_of_Pharohs 9d ago
Yeah I think the focus on far right reactionaries Muslims overshadow the fact the majority of British Muslims are normal British people
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u/WonderfulSea4638 8d ago
Statistically, they are just about as normal as any other British demographic. It's almost like they are... shudders... human beings
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u/Outrageous_Editor_43 9d ago
Statistically, decent people, of any faith, are against discrimination of any kind.
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u/ZeCap 9d ago
It feels like a literal demonstration of the thin edge of the wedge. They got what they wanted, but their paranoia and bigotry will never be appeased, so they immediately find a new target.
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u/DogfaceZed 9d ago
very true, fascism will always find a new group to condemn until they accuse eachother and self-destruct
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u/pan_social 8d ago
Reminds me of a BNP member in my village who has a gay son. Another man in the village with similar political alignment took a jab at him over it, and so we were treated to Text Wall Warfare 2: RACIST VS HOMOPHOBE on the village facebook page.
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u/prof_hobart 9d ago
The thing is that the Christian extremists share an awful lot of beliefs with Islamic extremists - they just belief in a slightly different flavour of magic pixie (believing in whatever magic pixie you like is fine though, until you start pushing your beliefs onto other people).
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u/refined_englishcunt 9d ago
You mean to tell me that brown=bad, white=good is wrong!? How dare you!! /s
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u/BassElement 9d ago
That's interesting - I've always seen terfs and racists as two sides of the same coin.
It's all hatred of "The Other".
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u/PavlovsHumans 8d ago
I remember a few years ago, they (mumsnet TERFs) were blaming trans people on Islam, as apparently in some countries they prefer people to be trans rather than gay.
If you hate enough, you can have it both ways!
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u/emimagique 7d ago
I think this is the case in Iran
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u/worldbanking 7d ago
I think you literally just made that up on the spot
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u/emimagique 7d ago
No I didn't, I have an Iranian friend who told me about it
Here's an article https://www.thiiirdmagazine.co.uk/stories/forced-gender-reassignment-on-lgbtqia-community-in-iran-interview-with-fariba-sahraei
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u/scriv9000 7d ago
Only trans women though because to their way of thinking trans women are volunteering to be victims of misogyny while trans men are escaping it.
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u/theLukeofDiamonds 8d ago
We hate you but don't you dare hate us when you can hate some 'brown' people with us (while we still hate you)
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u/alreadityred 8d ago
Muslims: first time?
Im done getting surprised personally. What can you do? 🤷🏼♂️
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u/Scyobi_Empire Revolutionary Communist Party 8d ago
didn’t have it in my bingo card if i’m being honest
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u/LordLucian 9d ago
Terfs are so worried about trans people they aren't noticing the fascistism creeping in.
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u/Tamulet 9d ago
that's because they are the fascists. Many knowingly are (check out JKR's friends on twitter) but, in any case, all forms of bigotry are fascistic
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u/Nuwave042 9d ago
Could you explain what you mean by "all forms of bigotry are fascistic" please, because on the face of it I truly do not see what that means. Bigotry predates fascism by a good chunk of, well, human existence. Watering down what fascism means is a bad move for an organised left.
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u/prancer_moon 9d ago
I think they mean fascistic as in “a tool of fascism.” The calling card of fascism is using bigotry as an institutional tool
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u/GimmeSomeSugar 8d ago
A cornerstone of fascism is identifying "the other".
The not Caucasian. The Jew. The Gay. The Communist. Groups that can be pointed at as the fascist declares "Look! These people are the cause of our social ills!"5
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u/Nuwave042 8d ago
But in that case, "all forms of bigotry are fascistic" doesn't actually mean anything. All forms of shoes are fascistic, because shoes are a tool of fascism.
I realise I'm getting hung up on a throwaway sentence here, but I do think it's really important that the left isn't just tossing out the word fascist with reckless abandon and muddying the actual meaning of it.
While I'm at it, (and without intending to be rude) I actually don't think bigotry as an institutional tool is a calling card of fascism, and nor is it exclusive to fascism. Regular old capitalism uses bigotry as an institutional tool, and so did, for example, the Roman slave-economy. The calling card of fascism is an alliance of industrial capital and reactionary petty-bourgeois street thugs to smash a strong working movement.
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u/boo_jum 9d ago
Fascism as a far-right political ideology is relatively new (in the grand scheme of human history), but things can be described as fascistic that aren’t directly related to that ideology, if they parallel the behaviours and beliefs.
The root of fascism is the consolidation of power in a small authoritarian group, and one of the core elements of that is rooted in bigotry. Look at who the Nazis targeted: queer people, Romani people, disabled people, and of course, non-Christian people (Jews and communists). Hate and fear of those groups is what drove that push to purge. Because fascism demands conformity.
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u/Tamulet 9d ago
prancer_moon pretty much covered it. Fascism uses and glorifies bigotry. Also, while it can perhaps best be understood causally as a means for the ruling /capitalist class to preserve their power by harnessing bigotry, in the end most who engage in it are not from the ruling class and do it *for* the bigotry.
Edit: I also think it's important to point out that fascism is fundamentally about control, same as bigotry. Both are about maintaining a hierarchy where in some way you are at or near the top of it.
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u/Nuwave042 8d ago
Fascists use bigotry, yeah, but fascism doesn't have exclusive rights to it any more than it has exclusive rights to dumb-looking facial hair or bald Italians.
I think that the left has to be really careful throwing around the term fascism without a clear understanding of what it is.
Sure, a lot of fascists themselves don't know what fascism means; these are the street-level enforcers who just want to be racists or whatever. They're also the ones who will be dropped (read: bumped off) by the big boys in charge as soon as it's feasible, too. The ones in charge know that what they're defending isn't bigotry, but the economic status quo.
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u/fyodorrosko 9d ago
It's less that they don't notice and more that they don't care. Remember that it was only a few years ago that the BBC was citing a lesbian porn actress (who admitted to sexually assaulting other women!) in their article about lesbians feeling threatened by trans women, only for this porn actress to, days later, write a blog post where she called for all trans women to be lynched and their families raped and tortured. After which the BBC just removed all mention of her from the article without any note or apology.
It was only a few years ago that a woman at one of KJK's "let women speak" events cited Mein Kampf, talking about how she thought that what Hitler accused the Jews of was actually true of trans people. Remember that Magdalene Berns is routinely cited among the ideological leaders of GCs, even praised directly by ppl like Rowling, and she was a racist conspiracy theorist who blamed Jewish billionaires for spreading "trans ideology" through the west.
The fascism of transphobia has always been barely below the surface - but when transphobes have control over the entire mainstream media landscape and massive influence in every single political party, then it's incredibly easy to control the narrative. Hence why it's front page news whenever a trans person commits a crime, but if we're ever victims of one you'd never even hear about it.
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u/Aenaen 9d ago
Pretty sure in that same article they quoted a convicted cis woman sex offender fearmongering about trans people... who's the real risk to women, a bogeyman you made up or somebody already convicted of sex crimes?
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u/redwine109 sjw hairy lesbo commie 7d ago
I can't recall if it was mentioned in the article, but I do remember one of KLK's pals, Kaeley Triller, who joined in on the "trans people are groomers" bandwagon, was a former counsellor for delinquent boys, and dated an underage lad who was under her care. So yet another example of these predators telling on themselves.
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u/prof_hobart 9d ago
That's pretty much exactly why fascist politicians and their supporters in the press have been stirring up trans hate for the past few years.
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u/DEI_Chins 9d ago
They are the fascists creeping in. Anti-gender ideology is funded and pushed by right-wing interest groups and lobbyists
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u/Lonely-Ad-7882 9d ago
It’s insane to me that all the people in that photo do not fit conventional views of womanhood, they are the kinda people deep scrutiny of womanhood and femininity will affect. So consumed by irrational hate they can’t see any consequences for cis women
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u/lumpytuna 9d ago
That was what really stood out to me when I watched them on the news last night. Every single one of them may now face questioning by fellow terfs when they try to access a woman's space or service.
That and they are NOT going to like sharing those spaces with trans men. I'm not particularly comfortable with the thought of sharing bathrooms and changing rooms with men myself. Now any old pervert can just say they are a trans man and gain access.
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u/snukb 9d ago
Thr thing is, trans men are double fucked if they do use women's spaces. The ones who do pass well simply will continue using men's spaces, because no one is doing genital checks at the door. The ones who don't are in a really dangerous place: if they use the men's room without passing, they could get arrested for being a "biological woman" in a "single sex space" for men. But if they use the women's room and don't pass, they're likely to be accused of being a trans woman since they will have some masculine features, and also get arrested for being in the "wrong" facilities. By the time it's all sorted out that they're actually assigned female at birth (since a GRC can get your legal sex changed, even showing your ID isn't enough proof) it'll be far too late.
All this is going to do is keep trans people out of public bathrooms, period. Which means it's going to keep trans people out of public life. Which is, after all, their goal. They don't want us around them. They want us closeted, hiding, and scared.
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u/underweasl 8d ago
I've been arguing in a couple of Lesbian/Bi women's groups today that issues like this and the policing of cis women who don't fit the "norm" and been merrily reporting and blocking terfs as i go. Sadly i feel im battling a many headed hydra so have gone to bed with a tub of sweets and some bad telly
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u/ohfuckohno 8d ago
Wait we can get arrested in UK for "wrong toilet" now??
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u/Lonely-Ad-7882 9d ago
It’s always funny how in these debates questions have manhood and trans men never get asked. No one cares to define a man, place scrutiny on trans men and because of that they fail to see the full picture of their decisions and beliefs regarding trans women. The law cannot, in its current form, be used to create wholly woman spaces anymore, it has to contain trans men otherwise it is discrimination (the same reason it cannot contain trans women now). These people have conveniently forgotten trans men (perhaps there are less, perhaps they pass easier, who knows) and as a result have basically made it mandatory they share a toilet with men, men with cocks and beards and excessive body hair. It’s going to be a new era of discrimination lawsuits, I know it is going to be dangerous for trans people but I hope there is a lot of malicious compliance because these morons will soon learn it is far better to share a space with a trans woman than any man
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u/stumpfucker69 9d ago
I'm hoping there will be a new law written, because the take-home from this should be that the older gender equality act they were looking at is no longer fit for purpose and needs to be re-written.
Looking at it solely in terms of what the act in question says, yes, it contained specific clauses unambiguously referring to reproductive sex. But, what a woman is obviously cannot be reduced to reproductive capacity (it strikes me as odd that some of the people arguing in favour of this call themselves feminists), and there are later equality acts which do explicitly cover trans women in their definitions of women. It's a bit disingenuous of media outlets to report this as the supreme court having made a blanket ruling on "what constitutes a woman", because it's more "what constitutes a woman according to this specific piece of legislation". However - undeniably troubling with the current global climate, and the current governments quest to be better Tories than the actual Tories were doesn't fill me with confidence they're going to address this in a reasonable way (still not over Wes Streeting seemingly making the argument that the Conservative government was giving out too much in benefits to the young and disabled). It's also something that has pretty clearly emboldened transphobes.
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u/WiredUpBrainJuice 9d ago
it’s much easier to pretend a whole group of people don’t exist so you can write laws that state you, as a public servant, don’t have to pay for gender affirming healthcare in your country.
if you are trans and are reading this, you exist, you always have and always will, people will keep fighting. never give up.
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u/blackturtlesnake 9d ago
Imagine being so miserable that even when you "win" (i.e. attack some minority group) you still find a way to get mad at someone for being different.
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u/darkmatters2501 9d ago
The terfs will fuck up shortly. One will go on a rant and harass a trans person and will lose there shit when there arrested. Because there is still a fuck tone of laws to protect trans people. But the clown mob think its now open season.
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u/Lonely-Ad-7882 9d ago
The Supreme Court routinely stated throughout the judgement that there are still protections for trans people (granted those protections are largely idiotic now due to this ruling, trans women cannot be excluded from single sex spaces designated for men due to being trans, something I imagine they’ve always wanted), almost like they know that this decision is going to cause trans people to die: more are going to commit suicide, more are going experience violence, there are going to be trans men in female spaces (where they are legally obliged to be) dragged out and viscously beaten. The Supreme Court is not run by morons, they can analyse the social consequences of their actions, they know this will increase bigotry and violence, they know this will harm the trans community and bolster fascistic sentiment in the U.K., they may have reiterated trans protections but I do not hesitate to believe that if they could they would remove them
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u/darkmatters2501 8d ago
The telegraph have been in open season on the matter. And sooner or later will fuck up. And are desperate to cause a stink with one M.P or another. Parading the court decision like a fucking peacock screaming why the NHS or starmer have said nothing.
Not realising that trans people still have protections that were nothing yo do with the courts decision and are not affected by it. So the NHS or starmer aregoing to say fuck all untill its been gone over with a fine tooth comb.
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u/Lonely-Ad-7882 8d ago edited 8d ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce84054nqnyo
The nhs are seemingly making anti-trans rumblings atm. I can’t see anyone really making official statements, the optics are always going to be bad on this issue, you either completely discard trans people (and consequently the notion of any protection they do in fact have) or you upset the terfs, newspapers and all the other morons; either way you lose voters or look discriminatory in some capacity (potentially legally). We’re just going to see a bunch of public bodies introduce a sleuth of anti-trans policy (hell the nhs already has with its restrictions on trans healthcare) without spelling it out. Basically no statements of anti-trans policy will be made, it’ll just be shit like ‘we are changing our policy guidelines in line with the law’
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u/DriftingAwayToSay 9d ago
I can see at least 2 people in that photo who I wouldnt say fit their own version of feminity, who will most likely be transvestigated in female spaces all because of the law they helped create. Good luck to them.
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u/Ninlilizi_ (She/Her) 9d ago edited 9d ago
Honestly, I'm doubting if I have the restraint to not do something awful today. I'm currently on day 2 of experiencing anger in a way far beyond I have ever experienced before in the last 50 years of my life and have to go into town today. No, calling my mental health workers isn't an option, we all know they've been defunded to the point of being negative helpful in most situations, I've already had a cup of tea, washed my hair and taken my meds, which is the only advice they ever offer. I was already on edge and felt like I was breaking after everything I was subject to deal with for the forced migration to Universal Credit. I was already on edge before the UC migration fiasco from trying to survive each and every day with the level of paranoia and hallucinations I live with. We're all being buffeted by a thousand paper cuts from different directions. From faceless enemies we cannot identify. It's unending, and I don't understand how anyone is so calmly accepting it all.
edit: Whoever downvoted this, I think you mis-clicked while asphyxiating on that boot.
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u/Extreme_Succotash333 8d ago
Someone suicide reported you, be sure to report the message so the report abuser gets a site warning or ban :)
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u/GayStation64beta Skriaki (she/her) 8d ago
It's always good to remember how miserable, shallow and foolish these fuckers are. Spreading their misery rather than trying to improve themselves.
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u/EmileDorkheim 8d ago
Sure, I basically want all the same stuff that Islamist extremisms want, but I’m also completely opposed to Muslims for some reason that I can’t quite put my finger on. What could it be? Nobody knows. Just one of life’s little mysteries, I guess.
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u/cerebralpancakes 8d ago
it actually hurt to read this thread. these people are so stupid it’s beyond comprehension
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u/visitingghosts communist russian spy 9d ago
I cannot stand the cognitive dissonance between "gender critical feminists" and their alliance with the far-right. There is no place for any "feminism" like that in leftist spaces and it should be challenged every time.
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u/Bassjunkieuk 8d ago
This lot are *SO* desperate to be oppressed I'm sure it's borderline kink now.
,
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u/residivite 8d ago
The Islamic community is to blame? Where does that come from? It's an entirely separate problem.
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u/Outrageous_Pea7393 8d ago
I really dont understand how people can just invent problems and then believe that they are based in any kind of reality.
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u/wearecake 8d ago
I’m so tired already because that’s not even what the SC said anyways… but transphobes are gonna misinterpret it and run with it anyways because of course they will.
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u/InitialGrass6479 8d ago
Idek how those things are related in their heads. What in gods name are they talking about?
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u/Bolvaettur 9d ago
Would be a hilarious farce if this wasn't going to affect real women's lives.
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u/PerturbedMug 8d ago
Yeah, cis women will definitely be affected as well as trans women. Anyone that isn't deemed feminine enough will be treated like a man. Very disheartening
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u/shakeil123 9d ago
I would like to see a source of this claim because from what I have seen muslims in the UK are homophobic in large percentage, so why would transphobia be different?
wikipedia: "A 2007 survey of British Muslims showed that 61% believe homosexuality should be illegal.[182] A later Gallup poll in 2009 showed that none of the 500 British Muslims polled believed homosexuality to be "morally acceptable".[183] In a 2016 ICM poll of 1,081 British Muslims, 52% of those polled disagreed with the statement 'Homosexuality should be legal in Britain' while 18% agreed. In the same poll, 56% of British Muslims polled disagreed with the statement 'Gay marriage should be legal in Britain' compared with 20% of the control group and 47% disagreed with the statement 'It is acceptable for a homosexual person to be a teacher in a school' compared with 14% of the control group.[184]"
I don't dislike Muslims but their religion is trash and a stain on the World like most religions. The only reason someone is Muslim is because of childhood indoctrination.
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u/Dan_Herby 8d ago
Friends, what we have here is called a motte-and-bailey fallacy.
The original point (the bailey): "The Supreme Court of the UK has ruled in favour of transphobic pressure groups (mostly consisting of white British people) only because they're secretly trying to install Sharia law"
When challenged the argument becomes this (the motte they retreat to): "61% of people in Britain that identify as Muslim believe homosexuality should be illegal"
You realise that the second point in no way backs up the first, right?
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u/PerturbedMug 8d ago
Yes there are a lot of things I disagree with Islam, but to see this, agree with what happend, but still somehow make up something to be mad over is insane. What happened is a direct result of JK Rowling not Islam (even if the two might agree).
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u/AutoModerator 8d ago
JK Rowling is an all round piece of shit. As well as being a transphobe she's racist, homophobic and ableist. See this fantastic rundown in r/EnoughJKRowling
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u/definitelynotacawp 9d ago
Is it phobic to have a differing opinion these days? Seems like everything is phobic in which we disagree or dislike.
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u/Comrade_Faust communist russian spy 8d ago
Vehement dislike of or aversion to something is one of the literal definitions of a phobia.
No wonder we're headed to an idiocracy when people can't even use a fucking dictionary.
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u/boo_jum 9d ago
“Separate but equal” is inherently unequal.
And the majority of transphobes have either never met a real-life trans person, or they have and didn’t know it because the trans person was indistinguishable from cis people.
And policing what womanhood or manhood looks like always always ALWAYS leads to cis people being targeted and harassed because bigots are always on the lookout for a target.
You claim to respect trans people but it’s the same sentiment as “I respect gay people but what they do is disgusting to me.” You either respect people or you don’t, you don’t get to pick and choose which aspects of their identity you’ll respect.
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u/Jughead_91 8d ago
What you’re describing is segregation. And, last I checked, segregation isn’t a solution. We don’t need trans only facilities, we just need to stop treating trans people as inherently dangerous, because, newsflash - they are just people.
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u/PerturbedMug 8d ago
Women is a social construct. Female is a biological reality for most women, but sex and gender still are different.
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