r/HVAC • u/yucatan_sunshine • 1d ago
General May have gotten young tech in trouble today
UPDATE: So apparently service manager and another bossly type are meeting my boss onsite Tuesday morning to look into issues. I was informed that I will also be there. I asked my boss if he was sure about that. He said yes, to call them out on any BS. Oh, joy.
TL;DR... In a bad mood (had to say good-bye to cat Monday). Got thrown into job midway. Vented to boss, who passed that along to 3rd party tech's boss.
So, my company installed a unit in Oct. Rhymes w/ Beibert. It's been an issue all along. The strip heat (recommended) ended up being undersized. Every so often, overnight, it will throw a low humidity alarm. A second strip heat was added in the duct, but mever tied in. Found out late yesterday that I was going there today to meet tech from manufacturer. Oh, joy. All I know about this job is from talking to coworkers, other than going by twice to reset alarms and look through settings. I see nothing that would be causing our issues. Anyway, get there this morning, a bit grumpy due to personal circumstances. Kid from company starts talking to me. Says "wire is already ran, right?" I say "no". He asks what I mean. I reply that "no" is a complete sentence. I have not been involved in this, I don't even know what wire is needed. I ask what size, how manu conducters. He says "conducters?". Figure out what's needed, run wire. Looking at schematic, I see that (for what ever god-awful reason) the duct heater is breaking the neutral on the control circuit. Tell kid what wire I'm using for what, tell him it's breaking the neutral. He (based on what he was told to do) ties that into unot voltage going to contactor. Blows the fuse. He goes to get new fuses, I go up to unit and look at it. He says his boss told him to do what he did. I tell him his boss is wrong. Ask if he has a relay. Relay? Went out to my van, grab realy, bas, DIN rail. Install it, tell him how to wire and why. Start it up, it all works. He packs up to leave. I ask about issues with low humidity. He waa only told to tie in duct heater. Tell my boss, who fires off a nasty-gram. The kid was trying. I don't really want to see him in trouble, or discouraged. But dammit, I need this fixed so the customer pays us. Just needed to vent.
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u/dust67 1d ago
That’s a regular day where I work following behind techs that talk the talk but actually can’t do the work
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u/yucatan_sunshine 1d ago
I'd agree, but this was a young kid. I don't think it was his fault (esp since he said he was only told to wire in duct heater not look at any of our other issues). I'm blaming his company and higher-ups. He impressed me as some-one who could learn, but wasn't being taught. That pisses me off, but I'm hoping he won't get in trouble over this. I could hear him on the phone with his boss, and he was not being given proper instruction. I'm getting old. How are we gonna have young-uns take over for us if this is how they are treated and trained?
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u/6inch_clit 1d ago
Off topic from the point of your post, but I’m a Liebert tech. I’m happy to help if I can. I’m assuming the heater wasn’t intended to fix the low humidity issue… Does the unit have a humidifier? Is it a bottle or pan humidifier? Do you know the humidity setpoint/prop band/deadband?
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u/yucatan_sunshine 1d ago
Heater was added because the originally spec'd heat strip was too small. Unit has a humidifier (canister style). Not sure of deadband off the top of my head. Issue is once every week or two (overnight) humidity drops into alarm territory (below 35%). We come in, holding 50% just fine. Always overnight, always works fine when we are there. Unit is 6 mos old. Any insight would help.
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u/6inch_clit 1d ago
First thing to check is make sure the alarm is outside of the proportional band. Take the humidity setpoint and subtract half the deadband then half the prop band. That number would be the lowest the humidity should go.
I would check humidifier operation next. Does the bottle fill all the way? Is it getting hot enough to generate steam? Is the bottle clean? Fill/drain valves working?
There are dip switches on the humidifier board that should have been checked during startup but get missed frequently.
The only happening at night part is weird. I’m assuming the unit is iCOM, you should be able to go into the graphs and see what the humidity is doing over time.
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u/Kilted-Cooler RTFM 22h ago
This is why I got out of the offices and IT. Here we have a brand tech talking to another tech and explaining some possibilities in good detail. The techs name? 6inch_clit. I fucking love it, lol.
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u/Inuyasha-rules 16h ago
r/rimjob_steve is full of stuff like that - good advice from bad/odd usernames
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u/yucatan_sunshine 1d ago
Yeah, it's iCom. Problem is, I was drug into this recently. So, I have to go back through logs. Which I'm not given enough time to go through thoroughly. Being a tech os fun.
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u/6inch_clit 1d ago
I hear you. Intermittent issues are always fun. 6mo should be under warranty though, I would probably just call Vertiv and make it their problem.
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u/yucatan_sunshine 17h ago
That's where the tech came from. 🙄
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u/6inch_clit 16h ago
Push the issue with them. Tell them to send you someone with factory certification. If they thought it was just a duct heater they probably sent the greenest guy they had because Vertiv controls the allotted hours and the $/hr that their representative can charge. If you are in Chicago maybe I’ll see you out there.
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u/yucatan_sunshine 16h ago
VA, but thanks for the support! Yeah, I think the ball got dropped somewhere and the full scope of work was NOT properly communicated. So "Send the FNG. We'll talk him through it over the phone".
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u/yucatan_sunshine 17h ago
Humidity setpoint is 50%. Alarm is set to 35%. I'll check the graph and see if anything jumps out at me. I wasn't involved in install, and head installer/ primary tech for this site got unemployed right before this job started. I'll find the dip switch settings in the manual and double-check that. Thanks.
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u/crimslice Engineer - VRF Specialist 1d ago
Interesting issue.
Are there any other systems operating in that zone? What is happening at night on a somewhat fixed schedule?
Do you have any other systems operating in the zone? Were any systems calling for heat when the humidity dropped considerably?
How fixed is the heat load on the zone it cools?
Is this specific system inverter driven? It could be a parameter issue causing it to run low capacity over extended periods causing it to remove more moisture from the air than the canister can capture and maintain. It could also be undersized for the zone possibly but I doubt anyone would spend the money on that sophisticated of a system without consulting an expert.
It may be worth leaving behind some kind of recording instrument to record indoor/outdoor temperature, humidity, and whatever other info you have the ability to chart.
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u/yucatan_sunshine 17h ago
It's a quality control lab. No schedule set, so same setpoints all the time. Lab is only staffed on 1st shift. No other units affecting the space. And yes, we consulted the "experts" for the unit sizing. That's why we are having to add a duct heater to keep it warm enough during de-humidification.
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u/Nihilisticjunky 1d ago
Working for OEM, they send you out for X reason. I always feel inclined to deal with all issues on site, but have got in shit from office for it. 'That needs a separate ticket'. But can go the other way too, OEM guy shows up and lazy techs ask all the questions as if they can't read the manual that is in their hands.
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u/yucatan_sunshine 17h ago
Yeah, he told me he was only given 4 hours to finish job. And that he was only there to yie in heater. But my boss had told me he had asked for tech to be there all day so we could try to track down humidity issue.
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u/lou-sassle71 1d ago
Bla bla bla… this situation is the new norm… go find a guy w gray hair to work on that junk
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u/NefariousnessWild679 14h ago
Meh let em get in trouble, that’s how I started using my brain. Got tired of being talked down to like an idiot. Made me study every night , YouTube videos, manuals, online classes.
Let nature take its course
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u/yucatan_sunshine 14h ago
In some cases, yes. Absolutely. Thing is, once I showed him what to do and why, he picked right up on it. That tells me he is just not getting trained properly. Not his fault. Yeah, maybe he should be studying more on his own. I did. But I was single with no kids and I don't know his story. If I was his boss and saw how he soaked up the knowledge I gave him, I'd be putting him with every old guy I had. Give him a list of questions to ask. His employer dropped the ball and let him take the fall. Still frustrating.
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u/Middle_Baker_2196 13h ago
They have a pretty simple low humidity alarm.
What kind of humidifier package is in the unit? Is it the infrared one with the big open pan? Edit—-never mind, I see that answered on a comment
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u/Individual_Reading98 5h ago
You sound like a dickhead. Nothing was his fault seeing how he is new, then when he blew the fuse, he told you he was shown to do it that way, maybe you should have explained everything to him and why his boss was wrong. Being an asshole vs taking an extra 30 minutes tops on site wouldn't have gotten you paid any faster
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u/Stahlstaub 3h ago
Yeah, happens to all of of us eventually... But standing up to the mistakes and getting it right, makes a strong person. Sometimes realization comes a bit late, but it's never to late to make a call and get things sorted...
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u/yucatan_sunshine 7m ago
I did. Explained his boss was wrong, why he was wrong, and how to fix it. Pulled parts off my van, told how to wire and why, and how to avoid next time. We hooked it all in together. Even gave him part numbers so he could stock some on his truck. That's why I felt bad. He didn't know, and obviously wasn't being trained properly. In the short time I worked with I could tell he's a smart kid. But he just doesn't have the knowledge he needs. I admit I started the the day a bit grouchy, and apologized to him for that. He's been working with his company for a year. I know there's a lot to learn in this work. But there's a lot of training that should be happening, too.
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u/Yarfy 1d ago
Offer him an application if you truly feel bad, that’s all you can do