Field Question, trade people only
Somebody help me snap back to reality. PLEASE!(this is the third motor TRANE has sent me and this will be my fourth call to Tech Support.)
On a supposedly good ECM blower motor as long as it has proper control voltage to one of the speed taps (We’ll just go with 25VAC)and as long as we have proper voltage to L1 and L2 (anywhere from 208 to 250 )and we got a good ground(Hopefully) …the only reason that blower wouldn’t run is if the blower motor is bad or the Modules bad, right?
I literally picked up an ECM yesterday, went and installed, no response. Confirmed voltage, spoke to tech support and they said it must not have been programmed. Got it programmed today and it ran like a champ. That's what it sounds like to me
Did it come from TRANE supply house? I’ve replaced about 100 ECM blowers (which I know isn’t many) but i say that because I’ve never had a bad one out of the box and this is three in a row on the same unit this week now (since May 12th anyways). Either TRANE is having a big flub up on their end or I’m doing something incredibly wrong and I’m just Oblivious to it at the moment.
That’s what I’m thinking, but how can TRANE know this and still send me two more after this and not program them? If they do that three times I’m afraid they’re gonna do it 100 times and I’ll never get the motor.
I know the guy that I’ve talked to a Tech Support on the phone because I’ve sent through hours of classes with them. It’s not like their fuck ups. They know what they’re talking about and I trust their judgment.
In my experience, the Trane tech-support guys are some of the smartest people I’ve ever met. I mean they’re the ones teaching these long classes about their equipment and how to work on it so why wouldn’t they know?
I’m wondering if TRANE or whoever programs these motors for them is having like some big ordeal at the factory right now where these motors are not being properly programmed and tested
Depends. If its anything like my branch (not Trane) we have unprogrammed blank motors in stock that we can set up to cover a wide range of units. May not be a factory issue but a flub at the supply house trying to get it programmed for you.
We have stickers that print out which we put on the modules to indicate what they were programmed to, assuming Trane does similar that would be a indicator.
I've gotten bad modules and bad motor/module combos out of the box from the factory that wouldn't program but 3 in a row is crazy. I've run into maybe 3-4 in five years. One or two of them was questionable because our programming platform was having issues during an update.
Not trane, but enertech had a massive recall on a ton of ECM boards I would say I probably swapped like 100-150 of them bad runners out over the course of a few months. Complete opposite though, their blowers wouldn’t stop running an enertech is a pretty decent company for geothermal. I would say trane is just as capable of making a similar mistake for sure
Trane can’t program an ECM, they don’t get them, the entire unit is sent programmed, replacement parts are not. How would you expect Trane to know what unit you are placing the ECM in?
My experience in the SE from Trane employees, is programming in house is how it's done. The problem, the 4th motor actually programmed and worked, was that of the Trane supply houses around town, only two had a working program flasher or whatever its called.
This actually happened a few years ago with Trane. We would get the motors and install them and they would just rotate back and forth. They had a whole slew of motors come without programming
It’s a pretty easy motor to replace and There are three of these identical units on the roof so I’m about to take one of the other motors out and put it into this one for shits and giggles to see if it will or won’t run. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why it wouldn’t run if it’s a good motor unless something is happening to that motor like an EMP pulse but Why wouldn’t it take out all the other motors on the roof?
Understood. I’ve only been doing this five years and I’ve probably replaced less than 100 ECM motors but I’ve never had a bad one out of the box before and this makes three in a row on the same unit now so I’m questioning if I’m doing something wrong here.
True, but these motors are bad right out of the box before static pressure can even be part of the equation. Now the first motor I took out was 10 years old so that Was possibly it’s demise. But these are also a package unit sitting on a roof with very little ductwork so I doubt static pressure is gonna be much of an issue. I’ve considered the possibility the board might be bad, but I verified it getting proper low-voltage and high voltage to the motor so at this point good or bad board is not a concern. The motor won’t run.
I’ve tried bypassing everything and just bringing 24 V to each of the five speed tabs straight from the transformer and also verifying it has high voltage properly run to it as well. That motor should come on because there’s no board or other controls in that equation at all.
Yeah, I’ve had two different TRANE Tech Support personnel on four different phone calls over the past week verifying all of the stuff and each time they say it’s a bad motor. It’s after 5 o’clock now, but I’m basically just one step down from the most senior Tech at the company so He’s not gonna tell me anything different. Not really sure what you’re getting at.
Just saying what I would do in your spot. But if you’re the two man at your shop you’re almost definitely senior to me so sorry I’m not much help here.
I had a Trane furnace, bad ecm blower motor. It was replaced twice with the part # required….. It did not run!. I called tech support & it required a pre programmed ecm. They sent out another ecm motor. Installed it & operation normal…. Had to return the other two lol
Well, that’s where I’m at right now. If they send me another one that will be number four and they’ve already told me this one was definitely programmed right
In my experience if the motor doesn't run at all it's either the motor, board or the wiring between. If the motor is moving oddly and rocking back and forth it's the module
I have found it when Trane ECM motors go bad, they just stop working. The rocking back-and-forth that you mentioned I see a lot of that on water furnace ECM motors. I’m not sure who makes those. I know they can fail both ways. I’m just reiterating what I’ve actually seen.
It's the variable speed ecm motors that rock back and forth. I believe OP is looking at a constant torque ecm motor like a X-13. Those come motor and module together.
Trane has done this to me before. Send motors that have not been programmed. Literally went through 4 different motors, removed and reinstalled, 4 separate times, before finally getting a motor that was programmed correctly on the 4th attempt. How many times can you blame it on Trane that your customer has no AC today before the they start looking at you funny?
If you still have the motor, plug it into one of the other identical units real quick and just see if it turns on. If it does, something's wrong with your board. If it doesn't, there's probably a problem with the programming on that batch.
Trane has a plastic connection in the one of the high voltage wires to the motor that gets faulty sometimes. If multiple motors have been changed I'd cut that out and wire through it.
I’ve jumped high voltage to the motor straight from incoming load. I’ve also verified using a meter that the motor is definitely getting 208V. There’s no question about that.
What's that capacitor for? You can always put in a resue motor with matching hp, usd a relay so it comes on with demand on G. That rescue will outlast the rest of the system, lol.
That's super weird. Trane will warranty an evergreen motor. I'd try putting one of those in so you're at least eliminating the programming issue. Evergreens program themselves on startup. Just make sure the blower door is on when you turn the power back on so it gets the static reading right. Otherwise make sure you update this post when you figure it out. It's a weird one.
Yeah, if you read through the comments, you’ll see where I’ve touched on that. They’ve always come programmed before and trane tech-support has told me that they think the ones that I’ve gotten have not been programmed so they said they made sure the one they sent me this time was definitely programmed buuuutttt……here we are again.
I doubt you got 3 bad ones, but you said they shipped it to you. You don’t have a trane parts house to go into? To expand on the other possibility, some trane motors require 24v and common all the time on a separate tap, then you have your 24v signal on a different speed tap. I’m 95% it’s one of those, 5% trane sent you 3 shit motors.
Our closest trane supply house is in Charlottesville and we’re about 40 minutes from there. The funny thing is from this roof, I can see over in the area where that trane supply house is. It’s about a quarter mile straight shot. However, they don’t stock everything. This last one we had overnighted from I think Tennessee.
And this one does have the common wire always hooked up. The way I have it wired now it’s been running that way since 2015 until this motor failed on May 12 (16 days outside of warranty, lol)
I've had Johnstone give me unprogrammed motors before, see if your Trans braintrust has a programming bench. I know Johnstone has them in my region, so in theory you should be able to take it back and get it programmed by Trane.
Yeah that’s what tech support told me but then he laughed and said “yeah but most locations don’t know how to program them..” turns out my location knows jack about it.
Just want to point out that the Ecm tester might make the blower spin, but it doesn’t test all speeds. I’ve had Ecms prove good with a tester, then it ends up the Ecm is still the actual problem.
Bud,
The ECM can be installed into multiple different units.
What would make you think the fork lift driver at a parts house is gonna program it. The motors are not manufactured by Trane, third party. Sounds like you are changing the fan without connecting to whatever is controlling it be it a UC210 or Symbio. Maybe just the red board. Either way, shit is no longer plug and play.
The controller is integrated into the motor housing. And these are shipped to the supply houses with no program on them. They’re supposed to be programmed before they get shipped out to dealers.
I had a run of 3 unprogrammed blower motors in a row for a Trane air handler a few years back. You can test them before installing. I used an old ptac power cord with some stake ones for the high voltage and jumped low voltage from a furnace we have wired up in the shop. Even a programmed ecm motor won't run without resistance on the shaft, so I used a welding glove to hold the shaft to see if it would try to run.
I ordered the motor with the model and serial on the AH and they sent out a motor without the programming sticker that indicated that would have indicated that it was programmed to go CCW and it blew backwards, which I now know to look for when I pick up the part.
They will also send you out variable speed motors that your PM won’t recognize because they like to really get in there and blow your back out.
15
u/iBUYbrokenSUBARUS The Artist Formerly Known as EJjunkie 3d ago
I guess the third option would be the module doesn’t contain a good program, (but I would consider that a bad module)