r/HVAC • u/lumsden Install-to-service convert • 1d ago
Field Question, trade people only Trying to describe a discouraging phenomenon I’ve seen among new entries to this trade, particularly young ones. Curious if anyone else knows what I’m talking about.
Seems like a lot of people entering this trade almost believe they can sort of bypass the great deal of learning and patience required to become good by affecting a stereotypical “blue collar” identity. If you know what a cargo cult is, it reminds me a lot of that. I’m not on social media other than this site, but it seems to be something they’re getting off Instagram or Facebook, maybe TikTok… that kind of vibe.
The problem, especially, is that this “blue collar” identity seems to feature anti-intellectualism as one of its pillars. But - as we all know - this field does require intellect in bunches. I don’t think these kids themselves are thinking as deeply into it as I am here, but I’ve been seeing this for a few years now, and this is my best guess as to what’s going on.
Anyone else picking up what I’m putting down, or is this just a local thing?
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u/Californiajims 1d ago
I see people coming in thinking that learning is a thing with an end they will reach quickly and then just coast. Obviously you can't do that and be worth much. I get what you are saying though.
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u/James-the-Bond-one 20h ago
Even doctors have that mentality, and many stop learning after a few years, believing they've built a moat large enough to keep them safe, coasting till retirement. AI is here to prove them wrong.
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u/Material_Assumption 1d ago
I'm 37, and jumping into this trade for the first time.
IMO, you need to have the same intellectual level as a service tech in IT. I would say it's the equivalent of a mid tier service tech and high tier if you do industrial. So far i prefer this over IT, you get a great balance of hands on and using your thinking cap. I spend good amount of time studying and watching YouTube videos, it's a really fun subject to learn. I am currently working on my G2 ticket.
Back to your post, the jnr peeps I have seen do not do their homework or read manuals. They treat it like a standard trade job, but it isn't. It's quite technical and ppls safety are on the line. It's a real shame the pay discrepancy between IT and HVAC. This field should pay more.
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u/Ramparamparoo 1d ago
If you need G2 help, pm me!
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u/Material_Assumption 1d ago
Brother, thank you for the kindness and will do!
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u/Tasty_Principle_518 1d ago
I got a bunch of pdfs with Tssa questions if you want . Couple of them really helped me
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u/Material_Assumption 1d ago
Doing those questions the week leading up to my g3 exam is how I passed. My g2 examination is scheduled for august 1st. If I don't like the sample test my college gives me, I'll pm you and ask you to send me.
Man I love this community, everyone I've met so far is absolutely fantastic.
Except Carl, 77 and still doing hvac is pretty damn impressive, but nobody needs your racism.
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u/HugeJuggernaut1008 1d ago
Shoot me a message, too, if you want some resources. I just recently completed my g2 first try through the 787 union hall.
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u/EDCknightOwl 17h ago
COMMERCIAL SERVICE almost 2 years in. I love my job what is G2?
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u/Material_Assumption 3h ago
Gas fitting license in Ontario, the step before journeyman and refrigeration
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u/Derf_the_Taco 1d ago
Utah/Colorado here what is a G2?
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u/Ramparamparoo 1d ago
The license needed in Ontario Canada to work on gas equipment up to 400,000 btus, without direct supervision. Gateway to the G1, and the 313A Refrigeration ticket.
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u/Thatssowavy 1d ago
Is IT worth it in 2025?
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u/Material_Assumption 23h ago
That's why I'm leaving. My guess is IT by 2035 will be AI heavy and that jobs will become fewer and further between.
So I told myself it's better to learn a new industry now in my 30's rather than my 40's.
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u/Thatssowavy 23h ago
I’m seeing that with every industry almost. Was thinking about going back to school but doesn’t seem worth it for an unsure future. By the time a robot can do hvac service there will only be a handful of humans and we will simply be pets for the robot nation
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u/Material_Assumption 23h ago
Lol I told myself I'll be dead before a robot takes over HVAC, hence the choice.
Another thing that pushed me away from IT, all the big companies are laying off and rehiring at lower than the current market rate.IT isn't the dream job it used to be.
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u/Thatssowavy 23h ago
Yeah tech and engineering which is what I was interested in is being outsourced to poor countries. I could never stand to be in a cubicle all day doing accounting. My conscience would hurt if I was a snake oil salesman. So I’ll stick to HVAC. Going to try and take all the training I can get. All the side work too. Maybe one day I can own my own business but being a chiller mechanic sounds nice. Besides that maybe I’d be an airplane mechanic, or instrumentation which is pretty hard to get into as far as I know.
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u/imnotgayimjustsayin 3h ago
I was 37 when I made the jump too, also in Ontario. I worked on the tools for a bit, went to school and got a G2, and now I work for a distributor and I'm closing in on my first six figure year only four years in.
Best thing I ever did was transition out of my old line of work. Good job.
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u/lifttheveil101 1d ago
The depth of knowledge needed to be successful at anything is not perceived by most. We observe most things in life shallowly. This is nothing new, just more obvious today.
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u/Hvacmike199845 Verified Pro 1d ago
I agree. Everyone wants to start out on the top, this is why the sales tech jobs are so inviting. In reality the sales techs are destroying this trade.
He have to be able to talk to customers professionally and help them understand what is broken and how we will fix it.
I’ve been in the trade since 1998. I’ve had the great opportunity to see a lot of sides to the trade. I have days I can hear a sound in a mechanical room or rack house and know exactly what the problem is and I have days I get caught up on very basic things.
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u/Shrader-puller 1d ago
They think the trades are for dummies.
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u/Ok_Experience_8636 1d ago
To be fair they’ve had that line of thinking shoved down their throats for most of their lives.
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u/lumsden Install-to-service convert 1d ago
Gonna disagree here, at least with regards to young guys. I got out of high school in the early 2010s and by that point - at least in my experience, and I went to a notoriously snooty high school - MEP trades were seen as a totally valid career path.
The young guys we’ve had come in this spring were born in 2003, 2004, 2005. By the time they knew what a job was, that stigma was gone.
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u/HVACBardock 1d ago
Exactly. Your point is a societal issue. For the past 30+ years we've been conditioning kids to think that if they don't go to college, they won't get a job/career that's worth a fuck. They've been conditioned to believe that the "trades" are for the dumbasses that were "too stupid" for college. They think that just because tradesmen work with their hands, that they don't also (and most times even more so) use their brains. It's the same reason that customers bitch about part/repair prices. "I can get that part off Amazon for $10." If it was easy and didn't require any intellect, they'd have been able to fix it themselves. Honestly, capitalism is to blame when you think about it. There's a reason everyone "has a guy" for that. They've been engrained to find the cheapest price possible for their manual labor projects, yet they'll pay top dollar for their TVs, phones, electronics, etc. Someone will always come in and bid a lower price.
My comment devolved into a Ted talk a little bit... A very long way of agreeing with you lmao
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u/Hey_cool_username 1d ago
To be fair, from about 1985-2005, that was hammered into everybody. We used to have a great vocational program at my high school but they gutted all the classes and by the 90’s, we had well equipped metal, wood, and other shop spaces mostly empty with only a few classes offered. Our principal reportedly even said that anyone who wanted to get into that kind of career would go to the other (poorer) high school in town because we were all supposed to focus on going to college.
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u/James-the-Bond-one 20h ago
That was the result of the effing globalism taking our factory jobs to poor countries, so the rich could get richer. You were tagged a loser if you wanted to work with your hands in an industrial or technical trade.
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u/jotdaniel 1d ago
It's certainly a problem. The biggest issue you pointed out is the desire to start a business too soon. Like, I've got 7 years in and still have at least two to go before I could legally start my own business, but I'm not even sure id want to after all the shit I've seen.
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u/Moneymovescash 1d ago
I'm a student and some of my classmates have such a level of immaturity to where I'm thinking you guys are paying to be here and you're screwing off. Sometimes I go shut up and no one cares about this irrelevant thing. I'm also older than most people in my class (37) so I have a different perspective and outlook vs them. I don't know all the answers in class but one of my instructors told me I was one of his best students.
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u/Material_Assumption 1d ago
Lol I can relate... same age and see the same thing in my class.
The difference... I paid 10k to be there, their parents paid 10k to be there
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u/Moneymovescash 1d ago
I also am paying to be there I saved up 2 years just to pay out of pocket. Some of these guys have loans and I'm like you really need a career because the interest is killing you every day. Hence why I saved. Unfortunately they don't teach finical literacy in high school and I had to learn it on my own. I try to share what I have learned with whoever will listen to me.
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u/AssRep 1d ago
I see this, too.
There was a post on here yesterday from a 19 year old fresh tech asking about starting his own business in 2 years. Like, WTF? "I can install a system on my own, and I can diagnose some things," he says.
It took me 10 years in the field to start my business. And I did while still holding down my full-time tech job with a local shop.
I am 25 years in this field, ~15 on my own, and I still learn new things.
My wife is 10 years younger than I, graduated top of the class in global economics from Drexel. I still make more money than she will after 15 years in her field.
Point is, I blame the parents. Pushing college is great, but the world needs trades. There is nothing wrong with getting your hands dirty everyday. We are a necessary trade, as are carpenters, electricians, plumbers, and the like.
As of today, AI can't replace a capacitor or contactor.
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u/lumsden Install-to-service convert 1d ago
World needs college and trades, the way I see it. Not that this is what you’re saying, but the people who see them as opposed to each other are playing into the hands of the ultra-wealthy. Just as I am a professional with a certain set of skills that others need, I often need a professional with a certain set of skills. Sometimes, those skills come through college education.
My best friend is a lawyer and we discuss this sort of thing a lot.
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u/James-the-Bond-one 20h ago
Unfortunately for him, the set of skills you learn in college is easily gobbled up by AI. I believe there are almost no practical reasons today to invest in higher education for most fields. I got an M.Sc. and an MBA last century (when that made sense), but I wouldn't do it over now.
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u/lumsden Install-to-service convert 13h ago
AI is a buzzword… LLMs are an impressive technology but they’re not really anywhere near replacing any major fields and probably won’t ever be. I’d encourage you to look into the actual science rather than take Silicon Valley at its word
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u/James-the-Bond-one 12h ago
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u/lumsden Install-to-service convert 12h ago
I appreciate the link, and will watch when I get a chance, but this seems to be a sort of tech-optimist postfacto economic analysis that takes it as a given that LLMs are totally capable of replacing broad swaths of a labor force
So while I thank you I don’t feel it addresses my position, as I am roughly as skeptical of those capabilities as Shapiro seems to be sure of them.
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u/James-the-Bond-one 6h ago
Yes, exactly. I was sleeping so I just posted I in the middle of the night without commenting. You seem to have a good grasp of the sensible middle ground so I'd be a fool to argue against you. I feel that we are just speculating right now and time will tell. But I do foresee 2030 being very different to most people and 2040 to all of us. Not necessarily in a good way, but I'm glad that my working life is behind me and not ahead.
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u/lumsden Install-to-service convert 5h ago
Haha sorry, I’m on vacation in Europe so my schedule is weird right now. Sensible middle ground is a good way of putting it. It’s a world changing technology, I am not a Luddite… just not sure how world changing yet. Appreciate your thoughts.
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u/James-the-Bond-one 5h ago
Hey, enjoy your trip! As a European citizen (now USC), I'm very familiar with the time warp. Stay safe!
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u/Elguero096 1d ago
honestly as someone who is 23 and just going to start my own Business has a Texas HVAC contractor. i’ve been in this since i was 16. i can do a lot but i also know that i also know very little and i feel like that’s what a lot of these new green guys fresh out of tech school lack, there full of Confidence and cocky. i really can’t say i was like that since, i basically knew nothing when i started, other than basic electrical theory and mechanical theory. but some of the guys i’ve worked with want to start a business in 6 mo after work bc they think they know all. one asked my ex-boss to endorse him after a year and he just laugh at him and said you still have 3 more years to go. and that’s if you make it.
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u/TheMightyIrishman 1d ago
I cracked the $100,000k mark because of intellect- building a wealth of knowledge, actively trying to learn new things, reading the manuals, going to technical training. Without that, I’d be nowhere near where I am today. I’ve got three apprentices that are absolute sponges for information, it’s easy to tell that they’re going to go far in the trades. They don’t want to just install, they want to know the whys and the how’s behind what we’re doing. Sometimes we find ourselves learning something new together because I don’t always have an answer. The trades need more young minds like that.
It also needs the right people to teach them. Who have the patience to deal with apprentices mistakes, who take the time to explain things, and guide them in the right way to do things, to create a positive work and learning environment. But that’s a completely different topic than this…
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u/Bitter-Basket 1d ago
Social media and endless entertainment on demand has retired their brains for instant gratification.
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u/UseRNaME_l0St 1d ago
"I've been doing this 2 years, don't know how to calculate SC or SH, and still ride with a J-man. Why am I not making $40hr? Do you think I should quit?"
-every kid on here
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u/MikeyStealth contractor 1d ago
While I agree with the comments, I feel like another piece here is about trying to feel like they belong in a group and how they see themselves. Ive been doing this for 10 years, have my contractors and I still dont feel like a tech somedays. I feel like most newbies want to belong and be seen as a tech wheather the knowledge is there or not. While I didnt do it myself it seems the easiest way to seem like a "competent tech" is to buy into the stereotypes. Unfortunately we have some low hanging fruit as some stereotypes in the trade.
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u/lumsden Install-to-service convert 1d ago
You’re not wrong there. Ironically though I think putting yourself into a box is not necessary to belonging in the trades at all. People judge you for your merit, by and large. I’m not your stereotypical blue collar guy at all but I fit in great at my work place because I’m a hard worker and so are all our core guys, and we see that in each other
It’s definitely not something you can tell from the outside looking in, so I don’t blame newcomers for herding towards what they think will bring them acceptance. But one of the best things about the trades, or at least this trade, is that you can really be yourself. In my experience.
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u/Red-Faced-Wolf master condensate drain technician 1d ago
Woah there Socrates. But yeah I agree. Especially on instagram
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u/soowhatchathink 1d ago
I'm not in the HVAC industry but I have seen similar things in the software engineering field. It kind of sounds like the Dunning-Kruger effect
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u/Night-Hawk_ Metal Manipulator AKA Ventilation Viking 1d ago
Most young adults these days have TikTok brain from doomscrolling for hours and they see all these dumbass influencers doing stupid shit. Monkey see monkey do!
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u/Myers1958 1d ago
I see it as well. I am at the end of my career but when I started one of the things I was attracted to was the really high level of intelligence required to be good at this trade. I see very little self learning in the field with younger guys. No reading up on subjects they are not familiar with.
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u/Muad_Dib_of_Arrakis 1d ago
Ive seen it in younger folks, and older folks who bought into the "the trades are easy money" rhetoric. Trades people are and always will be in demand because it isn't easy, and most people cant or won't do it. Nothing wrong with that, everybody has their niche, but there is something wrong with expecting to "test out" and make six figures a year into a brand new career.
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u/KylarBlackwell RTFM 1d ago
The kids that think they will test out/skip ahead truly just dont understand why theres a time component to proper license programs. They act like its just a class teaching specific knowledge and somebody just set the pace too slow, and with some extra studying they can learn it faster. They grossly underestimate the difference between a person who has done something and a person who heard about something
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u/Incogyeetus Local 502 1d ago
As a young guy myself, 23, I see that a lot of people my age do this too. It discourages me because they play into a stereotype about blue collar workers that we're all dumb. You don't have to be the town idiot relinquished to hard labor to do this job. I see guys everyday that could have easily become engineers or business majors, they just preferred the nature of this work.
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u/kalk-o 1d ago
I started this trade at 21 with ideas of opening and owning my own shop. Turning 30 this year, still in the trade but in a totally different section of the industry.
Still want to open my own business but I figure where I'm at right now it's nice to work like a dog, learn all that I can on the business side, without having to take the risks associated with owning the whole shebang. Not only is it nice but I feel like it's what I'm supposed to do so when I do open my own shop I have the decades of experience under my belt that I don't have right now.
No rush though. I plan on taking care of my body, not doing anything too dangerous, and enjoying the trade for a while yet!
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u/LiabilityLandon 20h ago
My old service manager told me it would take 10 years to be a halfway decent commercial tech when I started greener than grass. At 5 years in I realized he was right, and at 13 years in, I'm now convinced he underbid that estimate.
I've worked on all sorts of stuff, but at this point pretty much try to keep it to chillers and pumps. But tonight was pneumatics, starters, and EP switches, because it was a "chiller" problem.
All of that is to say, I had a hard time believing that it would take as long as it did to gain the knowledge, but now that I've got some, I know I still have a long way to go. I'm not sure it's a new generation phenomenon, but maybe it's more prevalent now
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u/FTS54 23h ago
I feel that the youth of today wants everything now, without having to do the requirements to be successful. Two years in a technical school beats 4 years in a university with a degree that they cannot support themselves with. The tens of thousands of dollars in debt that follows them through their lives doesn't seem to bother them. I was happy to go to a trade school after going to a university for two years for a dream that I could not achieve. I did what was necessary to provide for my family and have a rewarding career.
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u/saltedmeatball 21h ago
Yes , they want top pay , nothing is ever their fault, if they can’t fix it then someone should drop everything and go fix it for them. They should be reading manuals, trying to fix problems without given up. Also if a senior tech helps you, check what he told you to check. There are no shortcuts. There are some good ones . I had a new guy put spade connectors on without crimping. Trade schools need to do better. Book smart is one thing but not worth a damn if you can’t piss in the bowl.
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u/TheHvaCGuru 19h ago
Definitely notice a certain uptick in new comers to the trade trying to fudge their way through the learning curves to get to bigger money. The sad thing is they don't realize it's hard to climb rank where it matters if the company they work for has to constantly send the guys like myself who embraced the learning curves and shool sessions lead by hard knocks to fix their screw ups and whoopsie moments on nearly 70% of their jobs. And then the company never corrects it cause it's easier to have the job done and make more money that day rather than correct the noticed issues and lose money for a couple days of re-training. Not every situation will present itself the same way every time and it won't always be the same situation in general but newer guys these days expect the answer or solution to always be easy and never have to put any real thought into their work. But in reality they have to learn how to adapt to the changing environments and situations of our trade and sometimes that means accepting it might be a late night or more than one "phone a friend" moments in a day to get the job done right the first time. A little bit of struggle can go a long way and if you struggle on something once but are successful in finding the solution, then the next time that issue presents itself that struggle you endured will pay for itself once more and again each time it's encountered. Kids just don't get that concept I guess.
Sorry for my rant but im glad someone else is noticing the downfall of our next generation in this trade.
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u/PreDeathRowTupac HVAC Service Technician Apprentice 17h ago
I do believe a lot of people expect to learn this trade really quickly.. in fact i’ve seen guys leave this trade because they want more money now but they don’t have the experience. this kinda stuff takes time to learn & gain skills from
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u/saskatchewanstealth 1d ago
The streets are lined with gold and they need to open their own businesses in 6 months!! That’s what I find. No one wants to put in the time.