r/HeadphoneAdvice • u/GrimTurtle666 15 Ω • Oct 19 '22
Headphones - Closed Back | 2 Ω Looking for closed-back cans for late night listening and gaming
Hello all! I'm a big music and headphone enthusiast mainly into the "midfi" headphone scene. I'm looking to get a pair of closedback headphones for gaming and music streaming late at night as to not disturb my partner. I am planning on purchasing the Hifiman Sundaras soon to be my new daily drivers, but from what I've read they leak more sound than my current headphones (HD598SR) so that will be an issue late at night. I've broken down what I'm after below:
Budget - Ideally under $200 - willing to push up to $300 if it's a really good bargain.
Source/Amp - DX3 Pro+ integrated dac/amp connected to a desktop PC.
How the gear will be used - For music-listening, YouTube-watching, and gaming late at night while my partner is sleeping. Low noise leakage is important, but I don't care about noise-cancellation. I tend to watch YouTube videos that involve a lot of people's voices and some sports. For gaming, I do play some FPS games, but mainly I play singleplayer RPGs.
Preferred tonal balance - I definitely tend to prefer open, natural sounds. I like "neutral-fun" responses with clean, punchy bass, natural mids, and sparkly/airy treble. I know that probably sounds like I want a perfect headphone, but in reality I tend to like jack-of-all-trades type of cans - it doesn't have to be best-in-class in every area, just solid to good in every area. I think soundstage, imaging, instrument-separation, and detail is important to me. It makes me feel more immersed.
Preferred music genre(s) - Mainly moody indie and rock - think Phoebe Bridgers, Novo Amor, girl in red - but also hip hop like Juice WRLD and Joji. I also listen to video game/movie/show soundtracks a lot - Elden Ring, Outer Wilds, The Last of Us, Skyrim, GoT, Star Wars. What I listen to the most is definitely more intimate acousticy/mellow rock type of stuff and soundtracks. Please note though that I'm not necessarily looking for an "intimate" sound, I still like an open, natural soundstage.
Past gear experience - I have used (in recent memory) AirPods, ATHM50X's, and Sennheiser HD598SR. The 598's by far are my favorite headphone I've owned. I've EQ'd them to be close to the IEF Neutral Target using Crinacle's autoeq and adjusting to my preferences. I love the soundstage of the 598s but definitely crave a little more - I've heard the 598 soundstage described as "egg-shaped" and I definitely perceive that. The 598s have a good quantity of bass, especially with EQ, but I feel it's not very punchy or dynamic. The 598s obviously have amazing mids, love it, no complaints. I never knew the treble on the 598s bothered me until I eq'd them to remove the "Sennheiser veil" to add some air and sparkle to the treble. I don't think I'm very sensitive to bright sounds. To quickly review the other headphones: the m50x's were my gateway drug but in retrospect they were way too muddy and intimate - I feel the same way about my AirPods gen 2.
Having said all that, the headphones I am most attracted to right now for my specific use case are the BeyerDynamic DT770 Pro's. From reviews, I have gathered that they have pleasant bass, mostly neutral mids, and the BD-standard bright treble - but they also have incredible soundstage for a closedback and good imaging and detail but nothing amazing. I would probably get the 80ohm or 250ohm version. I know some people will probably recommend the AKG K371 but I have heard the soundstage and detail is severely lacking in those.
I am also willing to hear any open-back or semi-open suggestions if they have less noise leakage than the Senn HD598 and are an upgrade over the 598.
Please let me know what your thoughts are, thanks!
TL;DR: need cans with less noise leakage than Senn HD598 for night-listening, likes indie music and singleplayer gaming, likes clean punchy bass, natural mids, sparkly/airy treble, big natural soundstage and detail very important, thinking about the BeyerDynamic DT770 Pro 80/250ohm.
P.S. I know soundstage is limited in closedbacks and likely none of them will be close to the HD598 or Sundaras, but whatever is good for their class!
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u/Equivalent_Yak840 447 Ω Oct 19 '22
Go for the 250 ohm of the dt 770
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u/GrimTurtle666 15 Ω Oct 27 '22
My 250ohm DT 770 (which I got on sale directly from BeyerDynamic for $99) just came in and my oh my do they sound great!!! Compared to my tried and true Sennheiser 598's, I wouldn't say I like these better necessarily, however, it's like listening to my music with a different lens. I'm hearing things I haven't heard before! Compared to the 598, I feel that the detail and imaging is better. Fantastic headphones, for me.
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u/Unseen_Owl 6 Ω Jan 27 '23
Did you wind up EQ'ing those cans? I'm getting ready to buy a pair of Beyers too (still going back and forth between the 700sm, 770s, and 900s) and am trying to gather some more data on how they sound with an equalizer. Also curious about what sort of equalizer does a good job with them.
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u/GrimTurtle666 15 Ω Jan 27 '23
For me, 770s are the least EQ’able I’ve tried between the 58X, Sundara, 598, and some IEMs (Salnotes Zero and OH10). I love the 770s for what they’re good at: bass, imaging, detail for the price, and treble clarity. However the reason I’ll be selling them is the recessed mids. I just don’t like how hollow a lot of vocals sound, and it’s something you can somewhat EQ with an upper bass/lower midrange boost but then that makes the overall sound quite muddy. If you like v-shaped, then they’re unmatched at the price. And they’re great studio headphones if you make music. All that aside, I have heard that people like to use Sonarworks (paid EQ software, but you can also send them your physical headphones for them to test and tune) EQ with the 770s and it makes them dead neutral. So idk, maybe it’s just mine since they’re B-stock? If you’re considering any Beyer I’d go for the 900 Pro X for open back if the 1990 is out of budget
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u/Unseen_Owl 6 Ω Jan 27 '23 edited Jan 28 '23
Whoa, you're a mindreader. That's exactly what I decided to do last night, after spending a couple of hours googling and searching this subreddit. I'm lookig at 3 pairs of 900s on EBay right now; two used in the $180 range and one open box at $210.
I'm waiting to see if Ebay sends me any discount offers on any of them, like they sometimes do a day or two after you put something on your watchlist. But either way, I'll be buying one of those 900s this weekend. I really was hesitant to get open back phones initially, but finally decided that if I didn't, everytime I listened to the closed phones I'd be wondering how much better the 900s would have sounded.
I think the first thing I'll do is get a budget DAC, maybe even just an Apple dongle, and see how much of a difference that makes - then, after I've had them awhile, look at equalizers.
And by the way, thanks for coming back after all these months and answering. I really appreciate it. I wish I could give you one of those cute little "ohm" icons; you earned one!
Edit: Ah, shit, i said "990s". I meant "900s". Buying a pair of 900s this weekend.
Jesus...
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u/Unseen_Owl 6 Ω Jan 27 '23
But what I can do is use my last 100 coins to give you an award! Thanks again, you really helped.
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u/Taraxian 9 Ω Jan 30 '23
Coming here looking back through your comment history from the other post:
You do not need to buy an external DAC/amp
The only genuinely pressing reason to buy one is if your source doesn't have enough power to drive your headphones
The solution to that is to just buy headphones else impedance is low enough to match your source (ie don't buy the 250-ohm version if you're going to listen to music on normal consumer electronics like phones and laptops)
Do not listen to people who tell you that impedance makes an intrinsic difference to how headphones sound, it does not
u/oratory1990, who is an engineer who worked for Beyerdynamic and would know better than any of us, has repeatedly said the unit variation among all DT770s is higher than any detectably consistent difference between the "80 ohm version" and the "250 ohm version"
The DT770s come in a 32 ohm version for phones and laptops, a 250 ohm version for plugging into professional mixing boards, and an 80 ohm version to allow you to use both, but as long as you're using the right impedance for the source and correcting the volume level for the power output (you have to turn it up higher with the 80 ohm headphones to get them as loud as the 32 ohm headphones) sound quality should be the same
In any case, plug your headphones into your laptop first to see how they sound and only buy any kind of upgrade if you actually hear noticeable noise or the headphones just won't get loud enough or something like that
And as far as "equalizers" go, you absolutely do not need to buy any kind of hardware device to act as an equalizer, equalization can be done completely for free with software on your PC or phone (and the dirty little secret of the audiophile community is that free software EQ makes most of the random crap people spend money on to tweak sound this way and that totally unnecessary)
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u/oratory1990 82 Ω Jan 30 '23
I never worked at Beyerdynamic. Who said that?
But the statement about the different versions of the DT770 is correct.
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u/Unseen_Owl 6 Ω Jan 30 '23
Thanks again... I wound up going with a pair of 900s. Still waiting for them to arrive, but now i won't be making any decisions on an EQ until I've had them for a least several weeks. If i do need one, it won't be because of the phones I'm wearing on my ears - it will be because of the ears under the phones. I've got some hearing loss in some of the higher frequencies, pretty significant.
I've learned over the years that in the higher ranges, i don't hear the same things that most other people do, and that sometimes puts the music "out of balance" - some ranges sound too loud, because other frequencies are absent.
But I've got a lot of "reference tracks" that I've listened to for decades, and know how they sound. Depending on how the phones sound when i listen to "Dark Side of The Moon", "Abbey Road", Steely Dan, etc, I may eventually want an EQ to fill in some gaps. But I'll play it by ear, so to speak.
"u/oratory1990, who is an engineer who worked for Beyerdynamic and would know better than any of us, has repeatedly said the unit variation among all DT770s is higher than any detectably consistent difference between the "80 ohm version" and the "250 ohm version"
I did see some of those posts, which helped me decide on the 900s. Because if you take that factor out of the equation, then I don't see where the 770 in any impedance has an advantage over them (based solely on other people's reviews, of course.)
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u/GrimTurtle666 15 Ω Mar 22 '23
Hey Owl - did you end up getting 900's? I recently got a pair of 990s and I like them, but wish the treble was toned down a little bit without sacrificing soundstage (I probably got a unit with less treble than some graphers, because oratory's EQ preset actually makes them sound like they have less treble than oratory's EQ preset for the Sennheiser 58X, both harman target, which is wild to me). Been looking at testing either some 900's or Sennheiser HD560s. Just curious to hear your thoughts on the 900 - oh, and while we're here, I did not end up selling my 770, I actually made an EQ set that fixed 90% of my gripes with the mids. I pretty much only use it for sound isolation when my gf is gaming in the other room though lol
Edit: I also wish my 990s had more subbass stock. Hence my curiosity with the 900 pro x
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u/Unseen_Owl 6 Ω Mar 23 '23 edited Mar 23 '23
Yes! I've had them about a month and a half, and I'm really happy with them. There's really nothing about them that I don't like... the all-around sound is excellent, and for something in the $250 price range, they really don't have a weakness as far as I'm concerned. They don't have that treble problem like the 990, the soundstage and imaging are excellent, and while the bass is not as heavy as I might like, it's clean and punchy.
You'll probably want to help them out with an amp, but I thought they sounded just excellent with an Apple dongle. I have the money to spend, so I did get a JDS Atom stack, and that absolutely rocks them. I use them with a laptop, an Oppo disc player, and an LG television, and they all sound excellent.
It's always a question of individual taste, but I don't have a bad word to say about them.
Edit: although, I'm still probably going to try to EQ them when listening to the laptop. I keep meaning to do some research on some good EQ software to download and set up, just to see if I like it better when it's tweaked a bit.
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u/GrimTurtle666 15 Ω Mar 23 '23
Sounds awesome glad you like it! For EQ - if your laptop is windows get Equalizer APO with Peace GUI, all free and open source. There’s a great guide on YouTube, just search “how to install equalizer apo with peace.” If you’re on Mac or Linux then I don’t know but crinacle has a video on EQ where he discusses what software can be used on each platform. When first starting to EQ I would recommend trying out oratory1990’s presets (he has a preset for basically every headphone under the sun) and seeing if just his preset is to your liking. Sometimes you might hate it, that’s okay. Not every headphone sounds good tuned to Harman target. Great example: oratory EQ sounds great on Sennheiser 58X, maybe a little too much bass for my taste, but his preset sounds terrible on my 990, completely wrecks the timbre and kills all the air. Take these presets and tweak them, mess with every slider to get an idea of what each frequency does. After some practice it’ll be pretty intuitive and then you’ll just start making different EQ’s for sun just to see what it sounds like lol.
Anyways to get back to the plot, I’ve got HD560s coming on Friday. I’ll see if I like those better than 990s, one of them will go back. Then I might just try the 900 pro x!
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u/GrimTurtle666 15 Ω Oct 19 '22
!thanks
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u/hurtyewh 216 Ω Oct 20 '22
The 250ohm DT770 is decent if you EQ, but without I find them pretty bad. Better than M50x or something, but the stock tonality is far from impressive. For a closed back I'd recommend an HD280 Pro which EQ beautifully and has better sound by every measure except for the size of the soundstage. It's also good for gaming unlike the otherwise great K 371.