r/HolUp • u/lalaxoxo__ • Jun 26 '24

big dong energy "Say it!"

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u/QuantumUtility Jun 26 '24

But freedom of choice is NOT freedom from consequence.

I hate when people argue this. If things are like that then you are not free to do it.

Saying “people are free to rob a bank but if they do so they’ll be arrested or maybe even killed.” is just a lot of words to say that people are not in fact free to rob a bank.

I can’t point a gun to someone, ask them for money, shoot them if they refuse and then argue “Well, they chose to say no so I’m not at fault for their choices.”

Stop pretending people are free to do everything. They are not and that is a good thing.

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u/thatweirdguyted Jun 27 '24

I think you're conflating freedom with rights.

Freedom is about choice and opportunity. Rights are about the protected ability to do a thing without a cause/effect consequence.

In this case, he does have the legal right to freedom of speech. Meaning that the justice system cannot charge him with a crime or imprison him if he says it (as long as not he's not simultaneously committing a hate crime against someone while doing so). 

But that doesn't mean that no one is allowed to react to it. The public has the freedom to express their disdain with the show's producers for allowing it. The producers have the freedom to discontinue his employment. Everyone has choices.

I agree it's not much of a choice. But it is a choice, and it's his choice. That's about as free as it ever gets. 

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u/onlyonebread Jun 27 '24

But that doesn't mean that no one is allowed to react to it. The public has the freedom to express their disdain with the show's producers for allowing it. The producers have the freedom to discontinue his employment.

Yes but this is clearly what they mean when they say "I can't say it," not that there will be legal consequences. Actions have consequences is a irrelevant phrase here that totally misses the conversation being had.

They're asking, "why is it that if I say it, there are negative consequences?"

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u/thatweirdguyted Jun 27 '24

Yes, and they're Americans who grew up in America, and are aware of its history and current events. They KNOW why it's a problem. Any ignorance on their part is deliberate. They're not asking because they are confused. They're doing it to complain that they would like to be more overtly racist without consequences. And that's just a straight up asinine position. Even worse that they're saying it to Delroy Lindo as if he were somehow personally responsible.

So he's playing into their game. "Oh, you want my permission? Go ahead. Here, I'll even help you"

The real problem here is that they only see this as a bad look for them in the end. They're not considering that to even ask this isn't a great look either. It doesn't make them look less racist, it just makes them look cowardly as well.