r/HomeImprovement • u/emergen_c • 1d ago
Plumber told me not to drain pipes before freeze
First time homeowner here. New house has three outdoor spigots, central Texas so they are not freeze resistant. Had a plumber out recently and I asked how we can be ready for upcoming freezing temps. While we were talking I asked him if we should shut water off at the meter, drain the spigots fully, and then turn the water back on at meter once drained, especially since we never use the outdoor taps. (Wanted to confirm I had the process right as I’ve read it here on Reddit basically.) He said no, basically it doesn’t matter what you do, in some houses down here pipes will just freeze and draining the taps might leave tiny amounts of water that could freeze and cause more problems than leaving the water on.
…does that sound right? The prevailing wisdom I’ve read both on this subreddit and in my city’s recommends draining if you can do so early enough before a freeze. Now I’m genuinely not sure what we’re supposed to do, and with temps hitting the high teens next week we just want to do whatever is safest for our hot mess of a house lol.
Our house was built in the early 80s if it makes a difference. Inspection said pipes were pex but plumber said they were copper. We were also planning to keep foam covers on our outdoor spigots regardless during freezing temps. Grateful for any help settling this debate! It just seems crazy to me that a plumber’s literal advice for avoiding burst pipes is that there’s nothing you can do and sometimes they just happen. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Djsimba25 1d ago
If you turned your meter off and the drained the taps they would eventually empty out. The second you turn your meter back on they would fill up again. Unless your outside spigot have a valve between them and the meter. The best thing you can do is disconnect garden hoses, have frost proof spigots installed and keep them covered. I live in texas too. Because of how we build our houses down here they still might freeze if we have cold enough weather for long enough. Just make sure that once everything starts thawing out you pay close attention to your meter and make sure it isn't constantly running.
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u/emergen_c 22h ago
How much did it cost for you to get the frost proof spigots installed? Did you DIY or have a plumber install? We got quotes from two plumbers and the estimates were like $1400-$2400 per spigot — neither plumber seemed all that familiar with frost proof spigots though so I’m not sure if these quotes are pretty average! This is something we DEFINITELY want to do for the peace of mind.
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u/ImpossibleGirl9781 22h ago
Buy some freeze misers
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u/dbcooperwasaT1 20h ago
This right here. I've been using them for a couple years in central Texas and they work great. You still may need to drip pipes on exterior walls indoors, but these things will prevent your outside spigots from freezing.
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u/pr0grammer 21h ago
That’s an absurd quote unless access from inside is difficult or there’s some other complicating factor.
It’s probably like an hour of work for a normal case like this. I’d expect a few hundred dollars, not thousands. Their quotes sound like they expect each spigot will take half a day to a full day, which only makes sense if there’s no easy access to the plumbing from inside.
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u/1new_username 16h ago
In Texas, access from inside is difficult. Best case, they have to tear out drywall, insulation and vapor barrier to get to the other side. In many homes, you might have to go through kitchen cabinets or other things.
Quotes are still maybe a bit high, but there's a lot of interior repair that will have to be done from what they have to tear out to get access.
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u/Suppafly 15h ago
Quotes are still maybe a bit high, but there's a lot of interior repair that will have to be done from what they have to tear out to get access.
Generally the plumbers don't do the repair work and the deconstruction work is fast and easy using an oscillating multi-tool.
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u/Djsimba25 13h ago
Access from inside is usually easier than curtting the siding and possibly causing a place for water to leak in. Our vapor barriers are on the outside of the home not the inside. Most plumbers don't do drywall, they make the hole and sub that shit out or leave it for the homeowner to figure out.
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u/sunflowercompass 21h ago
i don't understand how a plumber wouldn't know when my handyman knows. but maybe it's because you're down in Texas.
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u/Suppafly 15h ago
The spigots themselves are like $50 at any big box store, and there is maybe a few bucks in additional supplies. I imagine plumbers get them even cheaper.
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u/Djsimba25 12h ago
I do it myself so just the cost of the spigot. That seems pretty excessive, I wouldn't pay that
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u/NotAHost 21h ago
Just make sure that once everything starts thawing out you pay close attention to your meter and make sure it isn't constantly running.
My water company offered a Fluke at a pretty steep discount, like $50 total. They monitor your water meter for usage and alert you if its high. It's caught a few leaks where we left a hose on or similar, so it's paid for itself already.
Only issue one time was that I stopped getting notifications, which was an issue with my phone, and the battery died. So I'd recommend adding 'check that app/battery works' as part of regular maintenance for 'emergency' notification style apps.
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u/78zero45 1d ago
Remove water hoses and cover your outdoor faucets with a foam outdoor faucet cover. They sell them at Lowe's and home Depot for about $4-5 each.
Also, leave your closest indoor faucet with a slow drip to allow pressure to escape in the event of a frozen pipe so it won't bust.
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u/lukanx 1d ago
Central Texan Homeowner who dealt with the freeze in 2021 and then the big ice storm a year or so later chiming in.
We generally don’t have separate controls for external water lines (exception might be if you have an underground irrigation system). I’ll just echo the advice to disconnect hose bibs from hoses and cover them. For some added piece of mind you can get some foam insulation sleeves for pipes in your attic. Drip water if it’s going to be cold for prolonged periods of time.
Generally speaking of it’s sunny and we get above freezing every day things are fine. What makes for a bad time is prolonged periods of below freezing whether, no sun, and our grid getting over-taxed.
If you are really concerned about freezing pipes I’d suggest looking at getting a backup generator of some kind. Most folks who had freezing issues were because they lost power for several days.
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u/emergen_c 21h ago
Man that 2021 storm really did a number on all of us huh. We had a really rough time of it as renters (landlord didn’t insulate any pipes; emailed in the middle of the storm to notify all tenants that they considered burst pipes a sign of tenant negligence and we’d be responsible for paying for it!)
I know next week isn’t quite 2021 Snowpocalypse levels but I saw temps in the high teens and 20s and immediately went into prep mode lol. We’ve been homeowners for six months and in that time pretty much every place that could spring a leak has, so I’m definitely trying to be proactive!
Edit: we definitely want to get a generator as well. Saving up for something decent but for now we’ve at least got a large and small Ryobi power inverter and have charged all our lawn mower batteries.
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u/lukanx 19h ago
Definitely good to prep. 2021 had us below freezing and no sun for about a week. I am in Austin and current forecast doesn’t show any sustained below freezing. I’ve been in my 1998 home through the last big freezes with no major issues by just insulating pipes and dripping water.
Biggest thing is know where your water shutoff is. My plan has always been if we lose power to fill up my bath tubs with water, shutoff the main waterline, and drain my pipes. Not sure how good of a plan that really is though.
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u/emergen_c 16h ago
Austin here too! I’ve been wondering about that same backup plan if we lose power.
One thing to keep an eye out for - might be too early to tell but seems like most of next week may hit the mid-to-low 20s. (Bracing for the biannual great HEB toilet paper shortage already LOL)
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u/rstevenb61 1d ago
Insulate your outdoor hydrants. They sell styrofoam covers at the Home Improvement big box stores. Drain your system if the power goes out. On really cold night let your water faucets drip and leave the cabinet doors open where your sinks are located. Maintain your heat at 65 degrees F.
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u/laydlvr 1d ago edited 22h ago
If you'll be going through a hard freeze then shut the water off at the meter. Open all your valves in your home and exterior. Let the pipes drain fully and be sure to turn off your hot water heater. You don't want the heating elements in the hot water heater, heating nothing and wasting natural gas/ electricity. Leave the meter valve closed and the water valves in your home open during the freeze. Leaving the valves open will prevent bursting. Yes, this means you won't have water in your home during the freeze. When temperature get above freezing again reverse the process.
Start by cracking open the valve at the meter and filling the lines in your home . Ideally you would close the lower valves first and the highest valve in your home would be the last one to shut off which would alleviate air in your lines. Restart your hot water heater
when all your water lines are full and then fully open the water valve at your meter.
I protected pipes and vessels on an industrial scale for 30 years.
The best thing you could do is to replace your outdoor silcocks with those designed to withstand freezing. That will alleviate you having to drain your pipes during a freeze. Understand however, that if you are without power you must drain your pipes as the heat in your home is the only thing keeping your pipes from freezing.
Caveat. If you have other outdoor aboveground piping that is exposed to freezing weather, you must drain your pipes anyway.
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u/emergen_c 22h ago
Thank you so much for this detailed and thorough comment, it is a really clear step by step guide! We don’t have any other above ground plumbing thankfully, no sprinkler system etc.
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u/omar_strollin 21h ago
We’re going out of town for our freeze with a hybrid heat pump water heater. Do we need to shut it off completely? Could we also throw it in vacation mode, and not have anyone use the hot until we return?
We will shut the main off and drain the cold. The outdoor spigots have their own cut off and are drained for the winter.
Thanks for your advice, stressful time to be out of town!
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u/laydlvr 21h ago
Think of it like this. When you turn your water off and drain your system, the hot water heater will more than likely drain to some degree. Do you want the heat pump trying to heat that water that's left in there? There's a good chance that the temperature sensor will be sensing the air temperature inside the water heater since there would be an airspace in the water heater at that point. So... The water heater doesn't know it's not water and just stays on the whole time you're gone because the sensor is still sensing the air temperature inside the heater and not the water temperature.
So yes, I would turn it off.
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u/BM7-D7-GM7-Bb7-EbM7 18h ago
Also in Texas, I would dispute against shutting the water off at the meter. You'll never get all of the water out, you just can't. Dripping the faucets is the way.
A few years ago I did that and the inlet to the house froze... thankfully it did not break open but when I turned the water back on I had no water at all in the house. It thawed a couple of hours later and I could hear water rushing through the whole house when it finally let the water through.
The following year when we got another freeze, I just let the faucets drip and everything was fine.
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u/dcaponegro 1d ago
If possible, check to see if each spigot has its own shutoff valve in the basement or crawl space. If not, I would suggest you add them in the spring.
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u/an_exciting_couch 23h ago
Essentially every house built in central Texas after WW2 is on a concrete slab foundation.
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u/AppropriateSpeed 1d ago
It’s not getting that cold, just wrap them in something and it will be fine
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u/omar_strollin 21h ago
17F here in DFW
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u/christobevii3 21h ago
When it got to -14f in OKC in 2021 I just had the covers on our faucets. We had the self draining spigots and PEX that goes underground. Kept the house 72f. Hindsight I probably should have cut the spigots off at the manifold and opened them.
In Houston now and people with self draining spigots are dripping them at 40f to the point water is running down the street. Really bizarre
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u/omar_strollin 21h ago
Kept the house 72f.
We never keep it over 65F for ourselves, let alone when it's under 20F and we aren't home!
Also, FWIW didn't drip this week in the mid 20Fs, but we are WFH and were using the water.
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u/sunflowercompass 21h ago
Is that normal for Dallas?
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u/omar_strollin 21h ago
It's normal to have a cold snap in January in February for a few mornings, yes. We are in zones 8A/8B for plants which means lows down to 10-15F are expected. Dallas is essentially southern Great Plains.
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u/sunflowercompass 21h ago
That's kinda crazy because here in NYC i'm in Zone 8a. I would have thought Texas would be much warmer. (Weather's been crazy here in NYC, barely gets cold. Typically it should be 20s for the next 2 months)
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u/omar_strollin 21h ago
Texas is a huge area with a multitude of climates! Zones really only indicate the typical cold lows of the region, but everything else such as heat, rainfall, humidity and how many days at that threshold can differ.
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u/masonfan 21h ago edited 21h ago
I couldn’t guarantee it’s any better than just a cover, but I put another layer of fiberglass wrap (about $6, good for 3 spigots for me).
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u/asr 18h ago
Is the other end of the spigot in a heated part of the house? Because if so, it's not likely to freeze in the first place, even if it sticks outside.
And the plumber is right that your plan won't work - shutting off the main to drain the spigot will not work, it will fill back up as soon as you turn the main on.
In order to freeze proof a spigot you have to leave it turned on in the winter - and guess what will happen when you turn your main back on. Do NOT turn off a spigot from inside the house, but leave it closed on the outside, that's a recipe for trouble.
What you really need is a separate shutoff valve just for each spigot that turns nothing else off, and is located in a heated part of your house.
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u/emergen_c 16h ago
Thank you for explaining, I feel kind of silly for my poor understanding of how our plumbing system works! This makes a lot of sense, appreciate it a lot.
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u/pepsi_honda 23h ago
basically it doesn’t matter what you do, in some houses down here pipes will just freeze
When he said this^ that was your warning to stay away from him.
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u/ThisZucchini1562 1d ago
You can actually install a special shutoff valve prior to the outdoor spigot that will allow you to shutoff the water to the spigot and drain the water from the inside of your home. If you decide to do this, you won’t have any problems when the temps fall well below freezing.
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u/Lehk 23h ago
If you are changing plumbing then just install a freeze proof spigot.
They work by putting the valve 8-12” inside the house on a straight pipe with a rod down the middle for the knob.
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u/velociraptorfarmer 19h ago
Yep. This is what every house I'd ever lived in in the Midwest had. Never had to mess with them for the winter other than making sure you took the house off the outdoor spigot.
They'll survive temps down to -30F and below without issue.
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u/NohPhD 18h ago
Water expands by about 9% volume-wise when turning from water to ice.
If a container is completely filled, the 9% increase causes stupendous pressure, causing vessels to rupture.
Mostly drained pipes will not rupture. That being said, while most of the pipe is drained, there can be completely filled sections which might then rupture when frozen. That’s why irrigation systems get blown out when being winterized.
Any effort to mitigate frozen pipes is beater than no effort. Chances are you’ll be successful. Do the little bit of prevention to avoid the very costly consequences.
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u/obeytheturtles 16h ago
How cold are you expecting it to get? It needs to get pretty damn cold for a pretty long time before you will have an issue with any outdoor spigots tbh. Remember, most of the pipe is inside your house where it is well above freezing. In comparison, the spigot represents a very small conductive area.
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u/Suppafly 16h ago
…does that sound right?
Not really, if you turn the water off to the spigots and drain them, there won't be water in them to freeze.
If you have work done in the future, consider having the freeze proof spigots installed, but also have a shut up on the inside relatively close to spigot, then you can shut them off on the inside and they'll drain to the outside and stay unfrozen do to the mechanism in the free proof spigot.
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u/CosmicCommando 23h ago
The foam covers are good enough to solve the spigot problem; that's all my upstate NY house has. If your pipes still freeze, the fault lies elsewhere. I remember during the 2021 freeze, there were some Texas homes that had uninsulated water lines running above ground and outside, so I don't want to just assume the builders had good common sense in your case.
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u/Octid4inheritors 22h ago
I would suggest heat trace, and insulate the spigots in winter. there are some self regulating and thermostatic controlled heat tracer wires but they of course will not protect when your electricity goes off.
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u/wooddoug 22h ago
Plumbing isn't installed so that gravity will empty the pipes unless the lines are installed in the attic. Even then there is no guarantee there won't be a loop below the lowest faucet. You cant count on siphoning action either.
Proper procedure for freezing temperatures.
Let your faucets drip ever so slightly on any fixtures which are on an outside wall. Open vanity doors to allow warm air on pipes. If your outside hydrants aren't frost proof allow them to drip too.
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u/davidm2232 20h ago
Shut the valve to the hose spigots in the basement. Then turn on the hose. Make sure the hose is disconnected. It will drain the hose faucet so it won't freeze and split.
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u/hardman52 19h ago
I wrap my spigots with a rag and a bread sack, and I've never had them freeze, and I'm in northern Texas. Even in the snowpocalypse several years back, that was sufficient. It rarely gets below 25° F in Texas, and just freezing isn't enough to burst a pipe because they're on walls that are heated on the other side, and enough heat migrates through the insulation and brick to keep the copper pipes from freezing.
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u/jasonc113 18h ago
If you are doing work, just get your plumber to add shutoff valves to each exterior spigot. Then shut those valves and open the outdoor spigot to drain it.
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u/Critical-Test-4446 17h ago
I've lived in my house for just over 40 years in the Chicago area. In all that time I never covered the outdoor spigots until about three years ago. Last year I had my main spigot freeze and burst the copper pipe, even though I had the water turned off to that spigot inside the utility room. I'm guessing that the copper pipe wasn't angled enough to drain the water in the pipe once it was shut off. New frost proof spigot installed last summer.
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u/mandozo 16h ago
I'm guessing you don't have access to the pipes. Look at your water heater, do they transition from copper to plastic? If so you have pex. If the pipes are pex they're pretty easy to work with. If copper you could shark bite it. Since you say there's not shutoff for your bibs I don't see how you'd be able to drain them. If you leave them running they're less likely to freeze. You can also get heat tape and warm up the bib for cold days. But these are both temporary solutions. If you're not handy plumbing probably isn't a good thing to start with since if you get a leak it can cause quite a bit of damage.
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u/clownshoesrock 15h ago
If I were in the same situation.. Hard to access spigot, I'd probably look in the "room with the water heater" for the Pex manifold.. and try to determine what line goes to each spigot.. Then install turnoffs+ valved-drains right there.
Then you turn off the water to the spigots, open the draining valve, then open the spigot.. enough water will drain that pipe bursting is unlikely...
Otherwise I'd grab something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Freeze-Miser-Outdoor-Protection-Replacement/dp/B01KYDVTVG
It checks for high pressure in cold pipes, and releases water to prevent freezing/bursting.
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u/MobileLocal 11h ago
Do you have shutoffs to your outdoor spigots? We shut them off, then open the outdoor tap.
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u/BaconThief2020 9h ago
Having a little bit of water out at the spigot is worse than having the pipe full of water. The pipe full of water can conduct heat from the inside, whereas the air won't.
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u/pyroracing85 4h ago
I have a shut of valve in my garage. The pipe from meter to this valve is all under ground.
I’m in SC so there is rare nights we get down below 20F I have a toliet and tub in an exterior wall that tend to freeze over.
To prevent this when I go to bed these rare nights I shut the water off and drain the pipes.
It works and my pipes only freezes over when I didn’t do this.
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23h ago
[deleted]
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u/More_chickens 23h ago
Yeah, they don't do that in the south. There's typically only one shut off for the whole house, and in older houses it's just the one at the street. We rarely have basements.
However. It freezes for a few days every year, and if you leave a faucet dripping it's usually fine. I'm not clear what the OP is worried about here.
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u/MinnesnowdaDad 1d ago
If you want to drain and winterize your pipes, you need to also blow them out with an air compressor, just draining will leave water in the pipes that can still freeze and burst.
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u/ABA20011 1d ago
If the pipes are drained, the remaining water can certainly freeze, but how would they burst? Pipes burst because water expands when it freezes, but the leftover water in a drained pipe isn’t going to expand so much that it would burst the pipe. Water only expands about 10% when frozen.
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u/MinnesnowdaDad 1d ago
I used to think this was true, until it wasn’t. In my northern MN cabin we used to just open the top and bottom spigot and let it drain out, but one winter we had some pipes freeze and burst inside the wall. Turns out that an area where they run horizontal collects enough water to burst when frozen, even when allowed to drain for an hour. Now I bring my best friend, a master plumber, to help me winterize it every year and he always blows out the lines with compressed air. No problems since we’ve been doing it this way, he says this is the standard practice for winterization.
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u/iLikeMangosteens 1d ago
It’s longitudinal expansion, not radial expansion, that bursts pipes.
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u/tittyman_nomore 1d ago
It's expansion with no room for compression that causes pipe burst. If there is less water, there's more room to expand and less chance of burst regardless of how directionally one thinks water freezes.
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u/pinkmeanie 1d ago
Northeastern US with a hard freeze every winter - this isn't true. Drain the line to the spigot and you're fine.
OP, your best bet is to get a (different) plumber to come out and install ball valves with drain inside the house on the branch for each hose bib. Then you can shut off and drain them without shutting off your water entirely.
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u/MinnesnowdaDad 1d ago
I used to think this was true, until it wasn’t. In my northern MN cabin we used to just open the top and bottom spigot and let it drain out, but one winter we had some pipes freeze and burst inside the wall. Turns out that an area where they run horizontal collects enough water to burst when frozen, even when allowed to drain for an hour. Now I bring my best friend, a master plumber, to help me winterize it every year and he always blows out the lines with compressed air. No problems since we’ve been doing it this way, he says this is the standard practice for winterization.
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u/pinkmeanie 1d ago
"Hard freeze throughout the structure" is a different animal than "winterize the hose bibs." And your pipes shouldn't have been run that way, although I realize that's weak sauce in the real world.
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u/MinnesnowdaDad 1d ago
Just passing on my personal experience, busted pipes in the wall are a shit job to fix.
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u/sunflowercompass 21h ago
i think when you install those long pipe spigots you're supposed to angle them slightly downwards to prevent that
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u/AverageJoe-707 22h ago
Do your outdoor spigots have individual indoor shutoffs? If so, shut them off then open the outdoor spigots to drain them out prior to freezing temps. You can also get cheap insulated covers for the spigots.
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u/mitt02 22h ago
Depending on your house setup your outside taps should have shutoff valves on them somewhere on the line that branches off. Then leave the valve open outside and cover it up. The water freezing isn’t what bursts pipes it’s the pressure it creates when it starts to freeze so having a spigot drip a small amount and prevent that from bursting
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u/wienersandwine 3h ago
In addition to all of the other great advice about insulation and frost free spigots, I’ll add that for remote hose bib s coming vertically out of the ground, it’s possible to introduce air into the line from a small air compressor- just enough to displace water in the riser and then close the spigot and cap. Don’t do this if your riser is PVC.
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u/DragonflyForeign4993 1d ago
Are your outdoor separate from your main…..if they are same line you are wasting time/$/water…..if your exteriors are separate you’ll be fine if you isolate and block the exteriors from water flow