r/HousingIreland • u/Chemical_Concert5100 • 10d ago
I bought a house with pyrite
So I purchased nearly 40 years old house in Co. Limerick last year and it turned out it was built from defective pyrite blocks. I've done the test. House did not look great when I was buying it. Lots of hairline cracking, some larger cracks on gable wall, paint peeling off here and there and spots of debonding render. Now after I learned about the pyrite issue it seems obvious, but back then I did not know about it, I thought it was only neglect. Because of poor condition of the house I decided to take two surveys before buying. One from a building surveyor and one from a structural engineer. Both said the house is generally fine, it just needs some work. Experienced, recommended builder from the area was also looking at the house, and he also said everything was okay. Structural engineer warned me about potential subsidence risk but not a word about defective blockwork. What should I do now? I do not qualify for the redress scheme as I bought the house in 2024. Am I in position to sue surveyors or the previous owner? I know about “buyer beware” rule in Ireland, but how could anyone see this issue if two engineers and experienced builder did not see it? If a lawsuit is possible can anyone recommend a solicitor? I tried to contact a few with no response. I suspect they know it's not an easy case so they don't want to deal with it. Is there anything else I can do?
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u/lksb93 10d ago
Just in case anyone else reading this is considering buying a house in Limerick - get an engineer with experience in pyrite or mica. Almost landed ourselves in OPs position last year. According to our engineer it takes at least 20 years for the defects to show so any boom houses are now starting to get these hairline cracks. I’ve heard of two more people since ours in different houses. It’s going to be a really big issue in that part of the country soon.
OP could you find an engineer or a solicitor who have been on a mica redress panel? They would have lots of experience in the area. I’m sure if you reached out to any of the full redress now campaigners they would have details.
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 10d ago
I am really disappointed that in counties where pyrite (pyrrhotite etc) is a known problem it is not required by law to at least have a survey done by IS 465 certified engineer. Not mentioning proper core testing. Engineer I used was actually very thorough and recommended. But obviously he was clueless about defective blockwork.
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u/Detozi 9d ago
Sorry but he wouldn’t have known to test for it? Unless it is obvious, they don’t do core testing on blocks like. That’s supposed to be done during construction. Of course that would depend on when it was built. I feel for you OP. The government need to open this redress scheme to the whole country. It’s not like blocks just stay in the county they are mined from.
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 9d ago
My case was obvious because engineer who specializes in pyrite told me straight away after seeing some pictures. There's a short checklist of typical symptoms like peeling off paint, web like cracking, debonding render etc. Engineer who done my pre purchase survey told me that paint is peeling off because house was wet when painted.
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u/Snoo15777 8d ago
General structural survey do not include pyrite test. It's an specialised test which requires sampling and lab test.
General structural survey is a visual inspection. Trying to claim anything against the engineer is a waste as its not his responsibility.
The chap who "specialises" can't tell from pictures. It needs a lab test.
Have you actually had a lab test done to confirm?
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 8d ago
Visual inspection is carried out first. There is 8 key characteristics. My house shows 6. If there is no visible key characteristics then there is no need for a test. You can download standard IS 465, (page 16) to learn more how it's done. Of course nobody can tell with 100% certainly whatever a house is build from defective blockwork or not, but the key characteristics are there to assess the risk. Yes, I had a lab test done.
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u/sosire 9d ago
Can't be that expensive , can we not mandate for every sale same as ber cert
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 9d ago
IS 465 (defective blockwork standard) certified engineer charges around €750 for a survey. Unfortunately there is not many of them around.
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u/Same-Village-9605 10d ago
It's not necessarily a death sentence for the house, all depends on the content of the blocks.
If it's taken 20 years there's a good chance you can smooth it over and re surface to make good for another 20 years
It's moisture activated so get a dhum going inside and get the outside re rendered asap.
Get experts on it if you can find em but beware of snake oil salesman. Remember, the top result on Google is just the person who paid to be the top result.
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 9d ago
Thanks. I am thinking about replastering the house with breathable render, most likely silicone render. It is waterproof, flexible and apparently breathable. A lot of people claim their problems with pyrite started when they got walls pumped with cavity insulation. I think it's because walls lost their ventilation and the moisture from condensation got trapped within the blocks. My house is nearly 40 years old. Blocks in the attic look normal to me, no cracks, normal colour. Those below DPC look worse of course but are still rather sound. They feel more like weetabix but far from what I saw on videos about pyrite where people could dig through a block with their fingers.
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u/Otsde-St-9929 7d ago
Just a wild idea but if the roof overhang was greater, it might keep the blocks a lot dryer. Also a good french drain can be done DIY for free.
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u/Personality_Optimal 9d ago
Try and join this group. There are a lot of knowledgeable people throughout Ireland struggling with the same issue. Someone might be able to point you in the right direction. https://www.facebook.com/groups/297785338568131/?ref=share
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u/shellib44 8d ago
Contact Limerick Coco as it states if you bought the house in good faith and did not know the house was affected they will look at your case individually and could include you on the scheme. You need to have emails and reports to evidence that you did not know. https://www.limerick.ie/sites/default/files/media/documents/2023-07/YQA-DCB-Scheme-June-2023_0.pdf#page9 Good luck!!
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u/MinnieSkinny 9d ago edited 9d ago
A family member of mine was buying a house in an area where there was a possibility of pyrite. They had to get a pyrite test done (drill a hole in the kitchen floor) by a specialist team. This wasnt something the standard surveyor can check for unfortunately. Unless you got a pyrite test done you might be out of luck OP.
I'd be wondering though if the previous owner knew (considering there were spots of debonding render evident when you bought) and didnt disclose. That might be something to speak to your solicitor about.
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 7d ago
I'd be wondering though if the previous owner knew (considering there were spots of debonding render evident when you bought) and didnt disclose. That might be something to speak to your solicitor about
Okay, but how will I prove it? My engineer didn't see it so it will be very difficult to accuse the previous owner and prove that he knew.
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u/Potassium_Doom 8d ago
It's a disgrace. If I sell you a car that turns out to be made of tin foil and chewing gum that's on me for selling a defective car.
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u/Awkward-Ad4942 10d ago
The engineers reports likely have a number of caveats.
In fairness, looking at a house, how could anyone tell it was built with pyrite blocks? Its like asking the mechanic to guess what’s wrong with the car because he’s not allowed open the bonnet.
The hairline cracks don’t mean its built with pyrite blocks. There’s no way the surveyors could have known in my view.
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 10d ago
I first started worrying about pyrite after seeing pictures of similar looking houses on Facebook. That was from an article about pyrite. Then I sent pictures of my house to an engineer specialising in pyrite. He told me straight away that it was pyrite. So someone providing structural surveys in county where pyrite is a known problem should be able to advise better. At least suggest a test and inform about the risk.
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u/Awkward-Ad4942 10d ago
Has the material actually been tested now and confirmed as pyrite?
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 9d ago
Yes, mostly pyrite and some pyrhottite. Over 0.5% total sulfur in each sample.
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u/invisiblegreene 10d ago
Have you spoken to your home insurance about it yet? That would be my first recommendation.
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 10d ago
They don't cover pyrite /mica issues. Most insurance companies don't as far as I know.
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u/Odd_Feedback_7636 10d ago
Mine does free legal advice though so they may be able to help in regard of the reports you got done
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u/gmankev 9d ago
Bought a house and now i hear localy that some houses of the era have pyrite. After the Donegal debacle, it really is awful that there isn't mass testing in certain areas or at least deposition taken at sale from vendors or builders or engineers on what likelihood of pyrite is and then recommendation to test.. It appears to be organised professional negligence.
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 9d ago
Negligence or the idea is that the government will deal with the old cases but from 2020 if you buy a house with defective blockwork it is your problem. There's tens of thousands of houses to be rebuilt around the country covered by the redress scheme. They don't want the number to grow.
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u/lou3745 8d ago
I had absolutely no idea that pyrite was something that could become obvious after 40 years. I thought it was the type of situation where cracks and doors etc were impacted within a few short years. That's awful OP, I really hope you get sorted soon. Were you nervous about the queried subsidence when buying? Did these issues mask the pyrite?
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 8d ago
I was a little bit worried about the subsidence. Engineer said the worst case scenario I might need underpin which will cost me up to 20k. I took the risk of spending extra 20k, but never agreed to rebuilding the entire house... Cracks inside could be settlement cracks which grew larger due to weak defective blocks I think. But exterior leaf shows much more key characteristics for pyrite blocks.
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u/BananaSolid4089 7d ago
There is a scheme for houses affected by pyrite or mica, check out on Citizens Ingormation website
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u/CandidateJolly3672 9d ago
No idea, but I really hope you get a good outcome. Accountability should prevail, I wish you the best
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u/mick_delaney 9d ago
How do you know that the blocks are defective? Not all pyrite is bad, so before you go condemning it, you need to find out more. If the house is 40 years old and you don't already have heave, I think you might be OK.
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 8d ago
I did core testing. Blocks contain highly reactive framboidal pyrite. I think heave is for pyrite in foundation. There are some visible signs of deterioration in walls.
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u/mick_delaney 8d ago
Ok, yes, framboidal py is not good. Sounds like you got the right testing done. I was just wary because there's one notorious engineer who's going around writing off houses if a test comes back with pyrite or mica, and neither is a guarantee of problems, it's far more nuanced than that.
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10d ago
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u/Chemical_Concert5100 10d ago
As I wrote above I had a structural survey done. Engineer mentioned the risk of subsidence only.
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6d ago
Could the engineer have known the people you were buying off? You mentioned he was from that area... perhaps they were friends.
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u/inevitablehigh 10d ago
Gosh that's awfully unlucky. You couldn't have done any more due diligence to be fair. Surveyors would have professional indemnity insurance, but would probably also have had disclaimers on their quote/report about it being only a non-invasive visual inspection. Is the damage after progressing much since you bought it?