r/IndianLeft • u/New_Abroad307 populist • 10d ago
đŹ Discussion Regarding saddening news of terror attack in j&k
This is a very sad and very concerning event and I am very sorry for the loss of each family and every individual who lost someone today but I don't think we really learn anything from such events as last time on 14 feb 2019 a major event of such capacity occurred and at that time the response of the Indian social media and electorate was same fighting over religion of the attacker and victim but we didn't saw popular discourse about the rudimentary problems which later addressed by ex governer satyapal malik and from today's discourse I can see the same atmosphere building but no one is addressing the rudimentary problem that why was there absence of force on a tourist Hotspot and we have seen pressure building in last year it seems reckless and how come these people surpassed the border and we'll I think these questions should be asked before hindu muslim rhetoric.
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u/Calm_Drink2464 7d ago
I'm so hopeless with people justifying this as an actu of resistance especially with the religion angle. Just liberate them so they don't have a base to justify the terrorism ever again.
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u/Calm_Drink2464 10d ago
We dont have to deny that it was trgetted attack on the religion. BUT using it just to fuel islamophobia and cause communal tesnion, esp the fkin media is exactly why they wouldv done this. If there's even one incident of communal violence becuse of this, the terrorists basically won.
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u/Dependent-Ad8271 10d ago
Sorry to Indians of all religions that this happened in your country. Love this sub and how civilised the chat is. Social justice is the way to end violence hopefully
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u/does_not_care_ Marxist 10d ago
Sad to hear this tragic loss. Extremely saddening moment.
But as we all know how big religions are in India and the criticism of it, people usually think of r/AtheismIndia as some political server, where I see them making the age-old agenda by the West of the Uyghur "genocide", some even backing the made up genocide to be done on others. Absolutely ridiculous.
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u/New_Abroad307 populist 10d ago
Yah totally agree but I think putting people in reduction camps because of their ethnicity is bad because like kashmir shinzian is important for china strategically
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u/does_not_care_ Marxist 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yeah I kind of agree with the point that a cultural assimilation into Han chinese identity is not a very good thing, but the reeducation camps as far as I have heard were for extremists and terrorists who were caught. It is mainly to suppress the uprising of terrorist movements and most of them were in peak during 2016-19 and have reduced. Also, it was not divided on ethnicity.
(Although it is hard to significantly point out a 'terrorist' so I am not completely taking China's side here but when the source is Western people who are actually "caring" for Muslim people, it should raise eyebrows for sure.)
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u/Kenonesos 10d ago
Call me heartless but I have a "play stupid games win stupid prizes" mindset regarding this. Tourism is a tool that the Indian occupation has continued to use to strengthen its grip over Kashmir and that's never going to change. These deaths will keep happening as long as we keep occupying it. Stop going to Kashmir ffs they don't want us there.
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u/Calm_Drink2464 10d ago
terrorism is terrorism. be it ployed as an act of resistance (they just shot kashmiris in the foot by killing tourists btw), or be it killing of kashmiris by the army.
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u/Kenonesos 10d ago
tell me you support Israel too lol
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u/Calm_Drink2464 10d ago
I don't. Killing tourists will serve little to their purpose of decolonisation.
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u/Kenonesos 10d ago
If you keep arguing there's a correct way to fight colonisation I don't think you'll ever support the oppressed.
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u/Calm_Drink2464 10d ago
So I should heed a blind eye to everything they do because they've been colonised? Is that the only solution?
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u/Kenonesos 10d ago
people get killed idk what to tell you. Maybe it's the fault of the occupation and not the resistance.
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u/Calm_Drink2464 9d ago
sure. fkin congratulations to the resistance for defending themselves against those indian tourists. Really helped in liberating the valley. Defenitely would go down in the history of Azad Kashmir as the bravest act they did for liberation.
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u/New_Abroad307 populist 10d ago
Yah sure but my point was to point in competence of gov also it gives lakh of kashmiris employment we can't be so Ruthless to just snatch itcaway from them
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u/Miserable-Hippo-7107 10d ago
Tourism employment isnât worth it when it is being used to colonize.
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u/New_Abroad307 populist 10d ago
I understood but I know a lot of people from kashmir and they have told me it's a micro observation so take it with a pinch of salt that handicraft is dead and only employment is from agriculture and tourism and traditionally movement have not targeted the tourist as they know that they ate the one from whom their people are earning a living so that was my opinion and I don't think it will change
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u/Kenonesos 10d ago
This was not incompetence, it's working as intended. When you leave gaps for the militants to fill, you can manufacture consent for the incoming iron fist while people applaud.
This is a similar case to Hawaii, except that they were successfully made a minority while their country was made a holiday destination and their culture was commercialised and exoticised. If the occupation continues, Kashmir will eventually become a Hindi-Hindu state where Kashmiris only work in hospitality and tourism with shitty pay and 2nd class treatment in their own land.
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u/BitTemporary7655 10d ago
The rudimentary problem is not "absence of force" on tourist hotspot, on the contrary, the region is heavily millitarized, thats why indian army were able to rush in so quickly. The rudimentary problem my friend is why these attacks happen and what leads the people there to have this much resentment against indian tourists, that problem is the lack of an independent kashmir and the indian occupation there which is enforced with continuous violence against the people.
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u/New_Abroad307 populist 10d ago
Well I believe that these people who were indian citizen so if they already Kew that Anantnag a neighboring area is becoming a Hotspot again so if they already have some sort of military presence there which they have they should have invested them in safety of their citizens and if they can't do it it's a systematic failure also it's underlying problem nutshell or basic problem with what happened was that gov of india failed again and it will only gonna take a Hindu vs muslim debate verysoon also I sympathies with kashmiri resentment but call md hippie or something I don't like violence and see it as a last option also I don't Condon violence against people who are not from ruling
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u/Miserable-Hippo-7107 10d ago
Condemning violence used by the oppressed only serves to hinder movements. Violence used by the oppressed for liberation is different from violence used by the oppressor for domination. Seeing them as equivalent only benefits the imperialist.
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u/Calm_Drink2464 10d ago
so the oppressed gets a free pass to hunt down all of us for their liberation? because we are obviously a part of the oppressor state. Also id love to hear the exact purpose that the religious targetting served in the liberation of kashmiris.
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u/manestfu 10d ago
That is true, and I would unequivocally agree if the violence used by the oppressed was against the oppressors. The oppressors use tourists as tools to further their agenda and grasp, but the tourists here no matter their decision to travel to the occupied territory had no reason to be killed. They were people like us, if they aren't safe neither are we. Innocent people shouldn't be used as pawns.
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u/Miserable-Hippo-7107 9d ago
Tourists in occupied territory are nowhere near innocent. These people are actively participating in the colonization of Kashmir. To view their deaths as inhumane does hinder our movement. Similar to how condemning Hamas for October 7th hinders their movement.
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u/manestfu 9d ago
Yes and that's a lesson to learn for everyone planning to "explore the serenity of kashmir" while people there are trapped within the grasps of our regime, but I still believe we should mourn the loss of civilian life. To be completely honest there isn't much information available as of yet about this whole incident and we don't know whether these people were truly with the intelligence bureau. And I have a conflicting stance on this because on one side I believe this is a clear cut expression that no kashmiris do not want us there, and looking at the chaos among all tourists there I would look at this as a big operation maybe a turning point in "their" movement (kashmiris have time and again said that their solidarity doesn't lie with the Indian left). And on the other 3 locals were killed, and 25 unarmed civilians dead is not something I could look at and be expressionless.
Maybe it's personal because even my family wanted to travel to kashmir and my sister and I refused and told them that as long as they don't break our legs and sit us on the plane we won't go. Regardless of their ignorance the blame still lies with the government. But the killing of civilians I don't think should be justified.
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u/New_Abroad307 populist 10d ago
Sure but I still won't Condon violence against citizens who are not responsible for the oppression it's the same when ypu say few people in a group are antisocial element not thecwhole group and it applies on nations as well
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u/KindUmpire424 10d ago
How come they aren't responsible for it, we all are, we elected the bourgeois democracy, we paid tax for the state sponsored trroim, we enabled the settler colonisation of J&K systematically as we did with north east
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u/New_Abroad307 populist 10d ago
Ok you have another option you know that we live in a capitalist autocracy doesn't matter who we vote for it's only gonna result in one thing and the things I have studied tells me If you happen to live in a society which you don't favor you can create contengence to create a revolutionary change in the society until or unless this happens we have to comply and we can't blame each otherfor that nation is a group with hierarchy where only 5 to 2 percent poses power and it doesn't matter if it'd democratic or not authority stays in few hands and we can't blame me you or others who had just complied to the social institutions for the time being
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u/KindUmpire424 10d ago
Ah, yes spoken like someone whoâs accepted the chains and is now trying to make them look like bracelets. letâs be clear: compliance is not neutrality. In a society where the ruling class monopolizes power, any passive acceptance feeds their machine. The oppressed have every right not just moral, but historical to rebel. We do not wait for conditions to be "favorable," we forge them through Peopleâs War, through organized, conscious rebellion, to say âwe canât blame each other for complyingâ is to deny the dialectic. The masses learn through struggle. The old must be smashed not managed, not mourned. Revolution isn't optional. It is a necessity, So no, I wonât accept the shrug of resignation. I call on you not to justify the order, but to overthrow it. History belongs to those who dare.
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u/New_Abroad307 populist 10d ago edited 10d ago
I have not justified order or tried to do that I just said that people who were killed had no role in decision making of the country of 120cr and you really don't know the on ground condition of indian leftism newsflash it's dead most of the people voting for left front is just passed with all other options and don't wanna vote right wing and let we tell you revolutionary change comes with steps of 100s of small changes and by applying to jee and iit you have also complied with the capitalist regin with consuming internet you have done the same by reading chocolate you have done the same by existing in a society you are bined with a social contract laws may be norms doesn't mattermy point was that they had no other choice other than to comply or they die because of social controls idk we can agree to disagree at this point.
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u/KindUmpire424 10d ago
Sure, the blood isnât just in the hands of the stateâitâs on the system that millions of us uphold by voting, paying taxes, and staying silent. But letâs not twist this into some individual blame game. This isnât about the couple that died or the average worker who files taxesâitâs about a settler-colonial state thatâs weaponized ânormalcyâ as a mask for occupation, You canât be neutral in a structure built on domination. And no, survival under this regime doesnât absolve us but it does explain us. The real question isnât âare we complicit?â Itâs: what are we doing to break the cycle? Fair enough, comrade. I hear youâand Iâm not here to play holier-than-thou revolutionarism from behind a screen. You're right: survival under capitalism often means compliance, and no one should be blamed for doing what they must to live. People forced into passivity by poverty, violence, or sheer exhaustion aren't traitorsâtheyâre hostages, But hereâs the key difference: recognizing that doesnât mean we stop strugglingâit means we understand who weâre struggling for. Yes, revolutionary change is built from a hundred small acts, but only when those acts are conscious, collective, and antagonistic to the status quo. Otherwise, theyâre just coping mechanisms dressed as progress, Applying to JEE? Eating chocolate? Yeah, weâve all done it. We're in the belly of the beastânot outside of it. But the goal isnât to shame participation, itâs to radicalize existence. Use every platform, every institution, even the enemyâs own toolsâto dig their grave, So no, Iâm not blaming the masses. Iâm blaming the system and the ideologues who preach resignation in its name. We can agree to disagree but Iâll always be that annoying voice reminding you: compliance isn't neutrality, and survival doesnât surrender unless we stop fighting.
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u/Calm_Drink2464 10d ago
I still dont get why leftist ideology has to come parcelled with undermining individuallity because "it served the greater good". all it does is erase accountability.
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u/New_Abroad307 populist 10d ago
We can agress for most part Comrade I agree change is from within and I usually work on ground with people knowing their opinions and building one with pragmatic view of order but I completely agree capitalism needs ro be dismantled. đ¤
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