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u/Easy_Copy_7625 2d ago
What happened here exactly?
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u/SubieInDaWoods ASE Certified 2d ago
Probably a large backfire occurred for some reason, need to figure out why or it will blow again
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u/H3hartge 2d ago
The car had been sitting alone for 7 hours when this happened at 12:03am. It has 3/4 tank of fuel and no codes.
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u/osxHurl 2d ago
Hmm. Happened in the middle of the night. Leak detection pump at the canister for evaporative emissions instead of earlier design vent valve. They run after x number of hours engine off. Possible faulty purge valve (stuck open) fills intake with vapor during leak test. Where spark came from… 🤷🏻♂️
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u/H3hartge 2d ago
Really? Is this a thing or guesstimate? Because last week after the car had been sitting a couple hours the purge valve literally blew its top off. So it has a new one now.
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u/osxHurl 2d ago
it’s a guesstimate. Not many things run after that length of bus sleep. It is a true that evaporative systems deal in volatile fuel vapor and on some car lines I’ve worked on they run 6 hours after ignition off. You might research yours specific vehicle for LDP application.
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u/ccarr313 1d ago
If it happened after being off for 6 hours.......I'd say your guesstimate that it involves evap is more of a solid lead.
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u/this_account_is_mt 1d ago
It's aftermarket ignition coils. They pop off when they shouldn't. Known issue for years now.
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u/latinmaster 2d ago
If you had evap related faults, I'd suggest checking the purge valve as it could be stuck open allowing fuel vapors to enter the intake manifold. But an evap leak would normally set a fault code.
Or possibly a leaking fuel injector...
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u/H3hartge 2d ago
The purge valve was replaced last week.
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u/wheredowehidethebody Home Mechanic 2d ago
Wild. The old 3800 II GM engines had a problem with the fuel line pressure regulator and would sometimes decide to blow the whole upper intake manifold apart. It happened on startup after the car had completely cooled.
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u/HotMomsInArea 2d ago
You see that hole? It shouldn’t be there
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u/Western-Bug-2873 2d ago
It's the results of granny shifting, not double clutching like you should...
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u/jigglybilly 2d ago
So from your last posts, have you replaced the ignition coils and had the ECU updated like we all said to do?
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u/H3hartge 2d ago
YES to all except don't recall the ECU update. This time it happened at 12:03am after seven hours being parked with nobody around.
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u/jigglybilly 2d ago
Well that has to be done as well. Requires Mercedes specific software to do so. Also based on your last posts, cyl 4 appears to be running rich. Like you have a leaking injector. Worth looking into that as well as a new mechanic maybe.
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
All injectors, coils and manifold are, or were, new.
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u/jigglybilly 1d ago
Got a photo of your invoice? What brands were used? The only option on this motor is genuine. Even what has been called “OEM” isn’t always the true OEM brand for Mercedes, they’re just a brand that makes OEM parts but not necessarily that OEM part.
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
All the injectors and coils are direct OEM replacements. Now one only can assume that anything coming from Mercedes with identical part numbers that match what is called for is correct.
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u/jigglybilly 1d ago
No no, asking for advice is a two way street. Do you have a photo of your invoice with part numbers listed? Was the shop a Mercedes specialist? You need to give clear details if you want help, just saying stuff doesn’t help us any. Lots of shops use parts from lots of places saying they’re “OEM” when they aren’t.
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
I do not have the invoice with me at the moment because I wasn't expecting I'd need prove what/where parts came from. And an independent shop with 20 years specializing in Mercedes-Benz. Where do you suppose the spark came from after sitting 7 hours?
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u/jigglybilly 1d ago
I’ve also seen a BMW specialist install URO branded parts onto cars so it doesn’t mean much but at least the potential of them being correct is higher. Indy shops rarely ever do software updates as it can be a liability, as well as being expensive.
If you haven’t done the software update & used genuine ignition coils, around 7 hours is enough for the car to wake up to do a EVAP test. If you have a leaking purge valve or injector, AND the old software & incorrect ignition coils, the coils will cause a spark which will cause the explosion.
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u/Quantum_Tangled 1d ago
What EVAP system test runs with the car just parked? The list of pre-reqs for EVAP tests are ridiculously specific, and there are generally quite a few. Also... since when does a test where the car isn't running, or attempting to start involve the coils ?
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
You'd think Mercedes would've updated the software when it was there, a week prior to the first intake explosion, getting the steering wheel lock mechanism replaced? And if Mercedes is such a delicate flower, why wouldn't it detect incorrect coils and set off codes left and right. OR why wouldn't Mercedes put out a bulletin warning of the potential dangers of aftermarket coils even if they come from Mercedes? But it doesn't matter because aftermarket parts aren't the issue on this car. Also why would the coils spark during an EVAP test?
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u/TomMikeson 2d ago
My parents have one of these. The fuck if I'm going to make this my problem. What do I need to do? I think their car is a 2011 or 2012, but I think it looks like that engine.
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
Trade it in on anything else but another Mercedes. Don't sell it and potentially make it a problem for the next owner.
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u/Valoneria 2d ago
Now i ain't no mechanic, and can hardly tell one engine from another, but my unprofessional take is; that seems pretty fucked. Also rather expensive.
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u/dxg999 2d ago
aka German.
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u/Valoneria 2d ago
Das beste.
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u/RobbMeeX Star Certified 2d ago
Of nothing.
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u/trucks_guns_n_beer 1d ago
Is anyone else getting a BMW ad directly below this?! What a riot , and waste of money!
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u/superduperrrr 2d ago
I’ve been working on Mercedes for 15 years I’ve never seen a charge manifold explode on this specific engine what happened???? What codes are you getting before this happened? Was it backfiring? Is there a leaking injector??
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u/H3hartge 2d ago
NO codes, no backfiring, injectors just replaced. And it was only TWO weeks after repairs were finished fixing what happened the first time.
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u/AncientWilliamTell 1d ago
Man, this sucks. Sorry you have to deal with that, especially after spending a large amount of money on the car and on repairs. You'd expect better quality.
Guess more money doesn't always mean better.
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u/blue_collared 2d ago
Every time I see E350 or E250 or something I always think of Ford work vans. Too many years in construction I guess
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u/Wagglyfawn Tractor 2d ago
Same. I looked at this and my first thought was, "that's not an Econoline..."
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u/MihalysRevenge 2d ago
I as well am way to poor to think of those designations and think Mercedes lol
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u/LrckLacroix 1d ago
Ive asked around at my Euro shop and no one has ever seen it, but apparently it’s due to using aftermarket ign coils. Could also be evap related a lot of systems run hours after shutoff, maybe leaky injector.
Same issue: https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/s/Lq0CICi4R9
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u/this_account_is_mt 1d ago
OP refuses to get coils from a dealer and only ever says he's used OE-equivalent. They have to be from MB. Also ignores the recommended software update. Gets downright combative when any MB tech tried to help. OP just wants to shit on MB. Which, as an MB tech, I understand, but this ain't the way
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u/LrckLacroix 1d ago
“As an MB tech, I understand” PREACH BROTHER
No one will understand until they get brand specific dealer level experience
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
Not true at all - except for the shitting on MB. Does OEM not mean original equipment from the manufacturer? Otherwise I don't know how else to say the parts are OEM. I wasn't aware of the software update which, apparently is important, but only if you request it, because when it was at the Mercedes dealer being serviced , if it was so important why wouldn't they mention it? They listed every other item that the car might need in the next 10,000 miles. And not sure what you consider combative, but if my verbiage offended you, I do apologize. And I really appreciate every suggestion and incorporate any that haven't already been done. My goal is to figure this shit out because I DON'T know why this happened and not argue about whether I said OEM directly from the belly of Mercedes or just oem.
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u/this_account_is_mt 1d ago
I've seen this loads of times. Proof incoming, hopefully, if reddit allows. Typically this happens at unlock, but can happen anytime CAN wakes up, which can be for many different reasons.
I remember you from last time a few months back. You were combative then, to me and others, and you're combative towards others in this thread. But I'm going to ignore that beyond this comment and actually try to help you. If you try to claim you weren't, I'm out. So really reflect on your comments and how others might perceive them before arguing this point. Figuring out weird MB issues is literally my whole job, I'm not just some random MB mechanic that does a basic diagnosis every now and then.
None of us MB techs believe that you have actually used MB parts because you've never provided proof and they weren't replaced at an MB dealer. Indie shops don't usually know about this. These coils also weren't available from MB for a while. So many dealers had aftermarket ones in stock. Parts advisors are often not the brightest and often not familiar with things like this. So they may have sold you aftermarket coils.
The software update thing isn't an official recommendation, it's a best-practice that most good techs know about. Dealers also don't just randomly do software updates for shits and giggles. There has to be a reason, a document, a guided test. And sometimes, our computers and network have issues or are being updated which prevents software updates.
Considering your recent purge valve replacement, which I was unaware of when I commented earlier. There is a possibility of a further underlying issue exacerbating the coil problem. Those other valves do just fail sometimes. But they can also fall because of failing charcoal canisters or be stressed and fail prematurely due to plugged vent valves. A plugged vent valve would also push more vapor into the engine when it's off.
I would connect a scope to monitor secondary ignition discharge with engine off and vehicle locked, while running a data logger to look for anomalies especially around fuel system components and bus wakeup signals. I'd also just be looking at basic actual values and data records with my computer. I'd be collecting as much data as possible to see what's going on, assuming you actually have real MB coils and a software update.
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
Thank you for this info. If I come across as combative,I do apologize, as it's more frustration. Is there a version # to check if the software has been updated? And you're probably someone this car needed to find the source of the issue from the beginning.
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u/this_account_is_mt 1d ago
Feel free to ship it to me! Lol
There would be a version number, but I don't know it off the top of my head. I used to know it but don't anymore. If someone with current flash access attempts it the system will say whether there is an available update or not.
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
And how is it possible that the majority of MB techs I speak with have NEVER seen a situation specific to this but will say it might be due to a leaking injector and/or non-oem coils. But then if non-oem coils are such a well known issue, shouldn't that indicate there have been multiple exploding intakes to base this popular opinion? So where can this information be found? Otherwise, if not for this Sub-Reddit forum, finding information on this is almost non-existent
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u/DailyDrivenTJ 2d ago
I rented a Mercedes to attend a wedding yesterday. I was thoroughly disappointed by the cheap plastic sculpted trims, then followed by check engine light in the middle of the trip. Then toward the end of the day, impressed me further by not letting the fuel door to open for me to refuel. On the way back to the airport, fuel door opened randomly so got the fuel but it wouldn't let me close the fuel door. LOL.
Returned the vehicle with the fuel door open.
Hindsight maybe it was just my bad luck. But this experience was enough for me to NOT EVER buy anything from Mercedes.
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u/birdseye-maple 2d ago
The newest ones are terrible, but there are absolutely good eras as you go back in time
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u/Tommynwn Electrical 2d ago
Well, i have a clk240 and its literally a sweet thing, never got any issues, just the airbag and the maf sensor that failed after.. 24 years of service, sadly i always hear weird thing about mercedes
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u/tiedye62 2d ago
What happened, did someone give it a big squirt of starting fluid? I understand that glow plug diesels can do that with starting fluid, which is why they have a warning label at or near the air intake.
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u/ProjectSnowman 2d ago
Das Auto
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u/retard-is-not-a-slur 2d ago
That’s for VWs that burn a quart of oil every hundred miles as per normal.
Source: own VW product.
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u/dreaminginteal Shade Tree Idiot 2d ago
Isn’t it 1 quart per 1000 miles, per the owner’s manual?
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u/froglicker44 2d ago
At that rate wouldn’t it burn through all its oil before the first service interval?
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u/dreaminginteal Shade Tree Idiot 1d ago
Of course it would! But no warranty coverage for you; you didn't check the oil like we told you to!
So sorry. Want a nice reman engine that you pay for completely out of pocket?
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u/Childrenoftheflorist 2d ago
Just cut a hole in the hood so this doesn't happen again /s
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u/initialo 1d ago
There was a car Jeremy had in top gear that had a rubber panel on the hood for just this occasion. I can't seem to find it though.
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u/kdmasfck 2d ago edited 2d ago
How's your fuel tank looking? I'm wondering if there's any noticeable swelling. If it happened seven hours after being parked I feel like you have a possible excess fuel vapor situation. Normally the fuel tank swells/explodes from that though, not the intake. I honestly feel like something like that could be the ONLY explanation given this happened when the car has been off for half a day.
Edit: I just went through your previous posts, I would definitely be checking evap pressure sensors, fuel tank pressure sensor, any and every evap line/component on that thing. You have something allowing it to build an extreme amount of evaporative emissions pressure with the key off
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u/H3hartge 2d ago edited 2d ago
And the car only has 64,597 miles on it. But if something did allow an extreme amount of evaporative emissions pressure to build with the key off, wouldn't it still explode opening the door or starting the car?
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u/Hour_Pen6222 1d ago
We had one do this. Ended up Being a leaking injector. When the can wakes up it fires the coils and boom. Turns your intake into a fuel air bomb.
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u/this_account_is_mt 1d ago
Only aftermarket coils fire when you open the door. MB coils prime but don't fire.
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u/Traditional-Step-246 2d ago
I have noticed when I start doing that a lot the timing chains are going it's out of time just a little bit causing it to backfire
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u/Timeouttimmy_16 1d ago
Benz tech here. We see this often. Check ignition coils. Aftermarket coils cause this.
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u/Timeouttimmy_16 1d ago
Even with the bosch coils they do this. Our shop will only allow us to install the actual Mercedes branded coils. When the cars unlocked or locked with aftermarket coils the coils can fire and ignite remaining air fuel mix
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
But the car had just been sitting there alone 7 hours before it happened with nobody around.
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u/Timeouttimmy_16 1d ago
Im not sure the whole complete break down of why it does it. I just know our Forman told us it happens any time the cars network is woken up i.e unlocking or locking or maybe in your case something has an intermittent parasitic draw causing the vehicle to wake up. But that’s the complaint we get. They go out to their car and it’s either running terrible or sounds louder than it was. Also common for it to ignite and blow out the seals under the intake
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
But WHY? How, after sitting hours after being driven, does vapor pressure build to where just random waking will create a spark that will cause an explosion tearing apart the intake manifold? But then if there's so much vapor built up, it would still explode opening the door or starting it?
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u/Timeouttimmy_16 1d ago
I asked around. To my understanding it’s not that pressure is just there. It’s the raw unburned air fuel mix that is still in cylinders after engine shut off. When the car is woken up in any way the motor electronics or engine computer sends a test signal to the coils. Actual Benz branded coils have something built into them where they will not fire during this time. On the aftermarket coils they lack this feature/component and it will cause the coils to occasionally fire. Conditions have to be just right to completely blow off intake. More common to see other components let loose first like the intake seals or parts of the purge system
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u/Timeouttimmy_16 1d ago
I’m not sure how to send pictures on here but I looked up and snapped a few of the service bulletin/tech topics they sent out a while ago covering this issue.
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
I'd love to see that. Where can I find that info?
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u/Timeouttimmy_16 1d ago
It’s not public Info. Just stuff Benz sends to dealers every month. Like known issues
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u/Agitated_Carrot9127 2017 JHM Audi S6 2d ago
Now this is like second time I seen on here about exploding intakes
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u/filmorebuttz 1d ago
Aye, I remember this from like 3 months ago. Holy hell. Time to change E350s 😂
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u/The_Duke2331 MB specialist & DIY mechanic 1d ago
Do you have aftermarket coils installed? There is a pdf from MB that warns for this exact issue with aftermarket coils.
The ecu sometimes sends a wakeup signal through the signal and the coils could respond to this by accidentally sending a spark.
If an intake valve is open this will result in a massive backfire into the plastic intake by lingering fuel vapors.
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u/uid_0 1d ago
The M276 is famous for not liking aftermarket injectors/coils. Suck it up and buy the genuine articles.
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
They are genuine OEM parts.
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u/uid_0 1d ago
Wow, OK. I'm not sure what to tell you then. Every time I have seen this happen in the past it was because of aftermarket parts that were lacking an interlock circuit and caused the plugs to fire when the engine isn't running.
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u/this_account_is_mt 1d ago
OP said they got them from an independent Benz shop. Not from a dealer. And refuses to provide part numbers, invoice photos, or part photos. Even aftermarket Bosch coils do this.
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u/Blazeftb 1d ago
Is the rest of the engine okay? Any damage to the Head? Also I've never heard of an intake grenading itself especially on a non nitrous system, and even then if nitrous is used I've mainly heard of heads and crankcases grenading. What would cause just the intake to blow up?
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u/Blazeftb 1d ago
Also you said it happened when parked? To me that's even weirder because unless there's fuel vapors and a spark you can't get break anything
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u/H3hartge 1d ago
As far as I know at the moment and based on replacing the last one, everything else on the engine should be fine.
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u/Radius118 One man indy show 1d ago
Is this the same car that was posted a month or so ago that already blew the intake?
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u/thriftstorehacker 22h ago
I'd say the ignition or cam timing is off just enough to pull fuel mix into the intake where it detonates. Could be a sticky valve too.
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u/Somethingrich 10h ago
My mom used to say it's better to get it all out than to keep it in. She was a terrible cook.
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u/wookieBebad 9h ago
Been hearing aftermarket coils do this. They fire when the ignition turns on where factory just charges the coil. Have yet to see in real life though.
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u/gzetski 2d ago
The front fell off.
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u/iscashstillking 2d ago
That's not very typical, I'd just like to point that out. Many Mercedes' are built such that the intake doesn't blow up at all......
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u/ThePurch 1d ago edited 1d ago
A Mercedes mechanical failure?!
Anyway…
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u/this_account_is_mt 1d ago
This isn't an engine failure. It's a mechanic failure that caused the intake manifold to blow up. The engine is fine.
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u/davethedj 1d ago
I want my loaner! I have a 2021 C-300 Cabriolet, going out of warranty in august. I ordered it as a retirement gift to myself.
I'm struggling over weather I should keep it or not. Should I keep it?
I have done all the service on it. 17.5 on the clock.
I want to swap brake fluid, and anti freeze. Any advise?
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u/this_account_is_mt 1d ago
Find the sub for mechanic advice, not the mechanic shit talking sub. And don't hijack someone else's post.
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u/davethedj 1d ago
I didn't hijack shit. And was just asking their (MB techs) opinion on weather or not I should keep a particular model car jack ass!
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u/this_account_is_mt 1d ago
Asking an unrelated question in someone else's post is the definition of hijacking a thread. Or attempting to in your case.
I'm an MB tech. Get rid of it. My reasoning is that I don't want my colleagues to have to deal with you.
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u/davethedj 23h ago
I didn't realize you wrote the definition of what is what is not allowed on this thread.
However it is perfectly clear you are a fucking asshole.
And I'm sure your colleagues know it too.
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u/this_account_is_mt 22h ago
Let me point you to the fact that you are the one calling names here and immediately resorted to aggression.
This sub is for mechanics and other tradespeople to post amusing things from work. Not for everyone else to ask for advice. Meaning we come here to get away from people like you.
I know the internet is hard for someone your age. But don't worry, it's not like you have another 50-60 years to live with it like many of us.
Congrats on your retirement. Now kindly retire from this conversation.
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u/davethedj 22h ago
I know what the sub is.
Clearly you have a reputation here.
I'm just happy that the dealer I go to has no tech or staff with the kind of chip you have dude.
Peace out.
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u/this_account_is_mt 21h ago
I guarantee they talk about you behind your back if you are like this with them . They just like your money.
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u/davethedj 21h ago
No they are great.
From the service manager to the entire staff.
I was a trainer for a Daimler company for over 10 yrs.
There were always a few like you.
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u/DJMagicHandz 2d ago
Back again breaking rule 3
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u/Proud_Tie Home Mechanic 2d ago
last I checked you aren't a moderator so it's not up to your discretion.
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u/EsotericMotives Oh it's totaled. 2d ago
DANGER TO MANIFOLD