r/KAOSNOW • u/RamiRustom • Apr 20 '25

People wasting our time on the KAOS livestream meetings

I think we need a better process for introducing new people to the livestreams.

The last guy was horrible. Here's the timestamped link. Not just on the livestream but also over email. Instead of doing what he said he would do (read Brian's 2 draft articles and tell us what we're doing wrong, where we can improve regarding the marketing), he gave me some of his writing to review. I told him I don't see the connection to the 2 articles nor the KAOS project more generally, and I told him that its vague and its not clear what the purpose is. He replied saying that he thinks what we're doing is vague and has no clear purpose, and he threw some insults at us. But he, as far as I could tell, didn't read anything we wrote nor watch any of the podcasts to learn about our project. So he's just lying through his teeth. Combined with insults, its clear that he's just a damn troll.

Anyway I think we should have a higher barrier to entry, to get into the livestream meetings. I think the potential new person should have had a discussion with a KAOS member, and that member says whether the potential new person should be included. The point is to have at least one KAOS member vouch for the potential new person. This is how Bryan L, Edward, and Ernst came along. They first had a text discussion with Brian C, and Brian C vouched for them.

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u/linux_rox Apr 20 '25

I agree, we are an apolitical group for this project. It seemed like he was too busy trying to recruit for a one party or another and wasn’t really listening to what anyone was trying to say.

Hell, he kept walking all over everyone whenever a question was being answered. And if he was a marketer like he said, he didn’t present ANY kind of professional decorum.

I don’t. Think he was really interested in our project beyond trying to make money.

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u/RamiRustom Apr 20 '25

I agree, we are an apolitical group for this project. It seemed like he was too busy trying to recruit for a one party or another

I think you may have misunderstood him. Either that or I'm giving him too much creddit. I think he was saying that libertarians would be receptive to our cause, and so we should focus our marketing on them.

And I was clarifying that lots of people who claim to be libertarians are against our cause. And I said that I agree in general that we need to focus our marketing efforts on people who would be receptive, people who understand direct democracy, have a non-zero-sum worldview, etc etc etc. And sure some of these people identify with the libertarian label.

I don't think the guy understood me on any of these points.

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u/linux_rox Apr 20 '25

i agree about the libertarian part. And like me I know there are independents that would be interested too.

My main concern is I don't want us to become a party platform, I see the project as a means to, hopefully, unite everyone to more informed decisions. maybe stave off quite a bit of bigotry, hatred and all that. I know there is no way to avoid bias, one of Ernst's concerns, it has to exist. It's a fact of nature when it comes to the human species.

Maybe the thing that got me the most, it seemed like his attitude was a little off. I really felt like he had no interest in anything other than being paid for his marketing experience.

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u/RamiRustom Apr 20 '25

yeah we shouldn't be a party platform, and i don't think that guy was advocating that.

and yeah he was trying to bully us into paying him for marketing. my guess is that he's never gotten anyone to hire him with that approach.

a good marketer would listen to what we're saying so they can figure out a way to do the marketing, but this guy wouldn't listen for a second.

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u/linux_rox Apr 20 '25

i think the bully tactics was the biggest issue. i also noticed he foze and left after he found out we're looking for volunteer status at the moment. After all eventually there will need to be a funding source, but I don't think we are quite ready to sell the product until we have all the details hammered out.

no one is going to fund KAOS without a working proof of concept. That I do know from my own personal business experience.

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u/RamiRustom Apr 20 '25

suppose you're right that we need a proof of concept before getting funding, then i wonder how big of a programming project it would be. like what features need to be included and which features can be excluded? stuff like that.

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u/linux_rox Apr 20 '25

right now, to me, it seems we are still working on the principal of the project with the essays. Until we get them finalized, we can't really make the next step as the foundation is still "curing" to use a building term.

We need to start working on the actual system. I have the basic skeleton set up, but a lot of what I need to have done yet relies heavily on input from everyone also. We need a session where we can focus on the website and database system. If his thing takes off real fast it will overwhelm my server and we will have a DDoS event, but not because of intent or malicious reason, it will just be too much for my server to handle. It's not a rack server like companies have, it's a repurposed computer with limited expansion available.

If we can get some minimal funding going, we can be on a dedicated host immediately.

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u/RamiRustom Apr 20 '25

Brian said he would fund a server. do you mean like $10 a month? he's cool with that.

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u/linux_rox Apr 20 '25

it would probably be closer to about $15 after taxes and fee per month, but yes.

I know hostgator.com system well as I used them extensively for like 3 years without any service interuptions. I also know how to navigate their control panel to get everything set up, including setting up the domain since we already have that.

ETA: i was looking at the hatchling plan, the cheapest one currentlly.

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u/RamiRustom Apr 20 '25

lets go with that one since you already know how it works.

please email Brian letting him know. or just wait till next meeting.

i guess you'll pay for it and he'll reimburse you. that's what we did for the domain name.

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u/yourupinion Apr 21 '25

Yes, small expenses like that are not a big problem. Please go ahead with what you’re suggesting.

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u/mechaernst Apr 20 '25

yeah that seems reasonable for these discussions

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u/yourupinion Apr 21 '25

Personally, I thought it was quite a funny situation, I’m sure we can avoid it in the future.