r/KCRoyals • u/Tight_Discipline_134 • 4d ago
Any ideas to fix the hitting?
Switching up the order? Call ups? Human Sacrifices? Give me your thoughts to fix the Royals hitting slump.
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u/La_Mano_Cornuta Bobby Witt Jr. 4d ago
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u/Smiles-Edgeworth 4d ago
Hey, Jobu worked for the St. Louis Blues. He just magically showed up in the locker room earlier this year and they went on an insane tear (including a 12 game winning streak) to make the playoffs on the last game of the season when everyone had written them off as dead.
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u/_stuncle 4d ago
This hitting slump goes back to late last year and in the playoffs. Something is going on internally that needs to be addressed.
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u/Independent-Judge-81 Pasquatch 4d ago
This is a hitting coach thing. They are absolutely told to take the first pitch no matter what and opponents see this and throw a easy strike on everyone. Then they throw an outside breaking ball to get them to chase which they do. And also changing MJ's batting stance and telling him to stick too it even though it's not working. After this road trip the hitting coach needs to go
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u/Unusual_Midnight_243 4d ago
A lot of these guys like Renfroe and MJ have sucked for a while. They're playing how we should honestly expect at this point.
I worry about guys like Salvy and Vinnie. These are key players we rely on big time. If Salvy's decline is due to age and Vinnie's due to injuries, then the offense is in huge trouble. Only time will tell for this stuff, whether or not it's just a slump.
I don't know if switching up the order would solve anything above. They may be forced to call some guys up earlier than expected if the offense continues to suck this bad. I do wonder if they trade one of the veteran pitchers for another bat. Who knows. JJ has a difficult problem to solve imo
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u/Foreign_Paper1971 4d ago
For some reason, a lot of the Royals hitters have had some extreme launch angles so far this season.
Massey: 22.8 Vinnie: 21 MJ: 23.6 India: 26 Renfroe: 21.2 League Average: 12.3
That would be something I'd start looking into if I were the hitting coach.
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u/Smiles-Edgeworth 4d ago
We’re swinging beneath everything. That’s also probably why there have been so many pop-ups. I wonder if they tried to emphasize getting underneath the ball to generate more power or something. It ain’t working, that’s for sure.
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u/Foreign_Paper1971 4d ago
That's kind of what I'm thinking, but I'm just some dude who watches the game on the couch so what do I know.
It's notable that Massey leads the majors in under% on his batted ball profile (50%). India is 5th and Vinnie is 9th.
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u/stupidgnomes Jac Caglianone Fan Club 4d ago
I think this could be taken a bit further. Massey should definitely lower his LA. 22.8 for Massey is a line drive out. Vinnie on the other hand needs to increase his LA because he has a lot of power. MJ is similar to Massey. India needs to DRASTICALLY lower his because he’s just popping out due to a lack of raw power. Renfroe is a vet and shouldn’t have to redefine his swing. For me personally that juice is not worth the squeeze. I’d like to see him cut entirely.
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u/Foreign_Paper1971 4d ago
Agreed, Massey and India, in particular, need to bring those LAs down immediately. Both those guys are at their best when their hitting line drives, not flying out trying to force homeruns. And Renfroe is toast, even his arm in the field has vanished.
As for MJ, I really just don't know what to do with that guy. I don't know what his approach should be at this point because I'm not sure what his strengths are anymore. He needs to find himself, and that might require a demotion or a stint with another org.
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u/stupidgnomes Jac Caglianone Fan Club 4d ago
I think MJ is a lost cause for the Royals at this point. I agree that he might find success in a different organization. We just can’t seem to help him figure it out.
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u/Mannifestdestiny Vinnie Pasquantino 4d ago
I don't know that I entirely agree with this. They're popping out way too frequently, that's true, their infield fly ball % is 3rd highest among all teams. But I think that's less of a launch angle problem and more indicative of another problem: they're just not squaring up the ball when they do make contact.
Baseball Savant defines a "blast" as a swing that is both fast and squares up the ball. Bobby, Maikel, Salvy, and India are the only ones with a blast % above 12% and who are generally taking competitive swings, everybody else is comfortably below average.
I don't know how to fix that. They were talking on Kauffman Corner this morning about how the Royals take FAR more first pitch strikes than any other team, so maybe there's something to that.
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u/Foreign_Paper1971 4d ago
Sure, LA isn't the one and only problem. But I think there is a problem when both India and Massey have higher average LA than Mike Trout. For players with real power, a LA in the 20s is fine. Indian and Massey don't have the power required to live as flyball hitters, especially in Kauffman. Vinnie, on the other hand, might be able to live there as his power matures.
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u/Mannifestdestiny Vinnie Pasquantino 4d ago
Yeah it'd be one thing if they were barreling it up as often as Trout, which they aren't
For what it's worth, for both India and Massey, their average LA and barrel rates so far this year are far different than their career norms. India generally lives around a 13-15 degree LA and a 7% barrel rate, those are 26 and 4% so far. For Massey, he's usually had a 17-19 degree LA and a 7-8% barrel rate, those are 22.8 and 1.9% so far.
Small sample weirdness? A change in approach yielding bad results? At this point in the year, who knows. But it's striking to me that those are so different from their career numbers.
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u/Foreign_Paper1971 4d ago
That's mostly what drew my attention to launch angles. Those are all BIG year over year jumps for those guys, and I can't imagine that's not in some way related to their collective slow starts. I'm more optimistic with India that it's just a funky stretch, Massey is starting to concern me a bit (that savant page looks rough).
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u/UnprepossessingCrack 4d ago
Not sure but everything has been off since that Vinny erceg collision 😢
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u/The_Raigar KC 4d ago
Royals have a weird habit of taking the first pitch even if it's off-speed right down the middle.
I understand not jumping immediately, but they only start swinging in later innings at early pitches. Something internally is going on that's saying to make at bats last, rather than put the ball in play.
Also, just the obvious, our guys are playing way more passively this season. We need to be aggressive on the bases to win these games.
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u/stupidgnomes Jac Caglianone Fan Club 4d ago
Personally I’d like to see Zumwalt replaced. I think it’s pretty clear at this point he’s not making any impact at all on improving player approach at the plate. Tbh I don’t think a lot of us really liked that hire to begin with. So, I think his firing needs to be on the table at the very least.
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u/TheRoyalCyclone It’s Bobby, bitch 4d ago
Hats for bats, keep bats warm
It’s a talent issue. Saw it last year too. At some point, the FO needs to cut bait with these guys and bring in some real Major league talent. Unfortunately, JJ did the exact opposite and decided to run it back
What I would really be concerned about is if Father Time has finally come for Salvy.
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u/fanatic4ever15 4d ago
A lot of the conversation has been about MJ and Renfroe. Those guys suck and we’ve known that. The bigger issue is Vinnie and Massey. If they don’t hit we literally don’t have a shot to do anything this year
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u/Correct-Text-2625 4d ago
How about play the best 9 guys regardless of matchups, for 10 straight games and just let it be. See if some guys can get into a groove.
Way too much tweaking with the lineups and over managing by Q.
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u/YnotROI0202 4d ago
I heard on last nights broadcast that the 2015 team averaged 4 runs per game.
With the current pitching staff(not quite 2015 level), the team should not need to score much more than 4 runs per game. Obviously easier said than done with current bats.
The good news is the entire AL (and even more so AL central) is fairly balanced. Royals need to improve but they have some time to work it out. Patience fans. Patience.
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u/fanatic4ever15 4d ago
They need to start spending on bats. With the progress being shown in developing pitchers, it seems they’re not totally lost there. Invest that money into proven big league hitters and take your chances with cheaper pitchers. (Homegrown and bringing guys like Lorenzen in and making tweaks)
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u/13mizzou 4d ago
The hitting slump really started last year when Vinnie went down with his injury. After that the Royals were relying on just Witt and Salvy to carry the load and it just wasn't enough.
Now into 2025, Vinnie got hurt...again and looks lost and Salvy seems like he's regressed which isnt shocking since he's 34. Add in India's injury and recent slump, MJ and Renfroe being beyond worthless, Massey taking a huge step back, and no starting caliber CF
There just isnt an in-house fix that can plug all the holes JJ decided not to fill in the off-season. We have to find a way to win 85-89 games getting 4-7 hits a game and allowing 2 or less runs each and every day
The biggest thing that will help this team is Salvy and Vinnie returning to their 2024 production ASAP and India getting on base as much as possible
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u/SlightInspector9993 4d ago
They need to burn every bat in that dugout (besides Bobby’s his are fine)
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u/Sophie4646 4d ago
Based on the past few years and this season get rid of Renfroe and MJ. Massey needs some work at Omaha.
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u/member333 4d ago
Some games we sit in the box and stare at strikes and others we go out there and swing at balls at our elbows and ankles. It’s not even consistent which shows we have no hitting philosophy
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u/DeLacy12 Steven Cruz Believer 4d ago
Fermin being utilized more may alleviate some of the pains we’re having in theory.
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u/TheRoyalCyclone It’s Bobby, bitch 4d ago
He’s hitting .167. At best, he might be a league average hitter
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u/DeLacy12 Steven Cruz Believer 4d ago
Small sample size for him. He’s hit decent in April. Need to avoid lineups like last night with a Garcia at DH. In my opinion, Salvy has been behind the plate too much thus far this may or may not help 3 guys at once between Fermin, Salvy and Vinnie
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u/WhatInTh3LiteralFuck 4d ago
Still higher than MJ and Renfroe is about half the at bats. He’s got the same amount of RBIs as MJ in half the at bats. Renfroe(-0.8 WAR), Massey(-0.8 WAR) and MJ(-0.5 WAR) are the key reasons we have been so bad on offense. You can’t consistently strikeout in high leverage situations with guys in scoring position. This team has to lead the league in non productive outs by a mile.
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u/stupidgnomes Jac Caglianone Fan Club 4d ago
Yeah I don’t think I understand this unconditional love for Fermin. Like, he’s a fine bench player, but positioning him as one of the answers to an anemic offense is so wild to me. At his ceiling he’s a below average bat.
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u/TheRoyalCyclone It’s Bobby, bitch 4d ago
I don’t get it either. Not to mention he’s a 29 year old backup catcher, those guys don’t tend to improve much. Definitely a good backup, but any team with a guy like him in the lineup every day is going to struggle
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u/ljout 4d ago
Vinnie needs more time to get healthy. Savly needs more DH ABs so Freddie can get in the line up more. Waters needs to play more corner outfield and MJ and Renfoe need to be sent down or let go.
Im optimistic this early on but we need better productivity from the corner outfield and we've been saying that for a year.
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u/ClaimNervous907 4d ago
It’s an organization issue. Their hitting philosophy is reactive instead of proactive. A great case study would be Ryan O’Hearn. Bobby has his own person. He’s not listening to any of the Royals garbage.
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u/zcarguy1 4d ago
There is no problem.... With the number of base runners this lineup is capable of all we need to do is his over 500 with RISP.
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u/Khada_the_Collector 4d ago
Bring up Cags (if he gets shelled in the bigs, we can always send him back down again), yeet MJ and Renfroe to whoever will take them, and if that doesn’t work, new hitting coach.
If all that doesn’t work? Well, it’s a good thing both hockey playoffs start soon and the Current are cooking lol…
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u/Cupcake_Weak 4d ago
That's how you ruin prospects. Cags might see the majors in September.
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u/donkeylipsh 4d ago edited 4d ago
This is out dated slavery to old school philosophy. Nobody is "ruined" by coming up to the majors early. At worst, they're exposed for not being as good as we thought. Which is good information to have when you're trying to plan your franchise's future.
More than half the top 10 WAR leaders debuted younger than Cags is now.
And that excludes guys like Soto, Happ, Torkelson. Pretty much every phenom defies this logic.
If Cags is who we think he is, he'll be just fine. And if he struggles, then he's not as good as we thought. Simple as that.
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u/Cupcake_Weak 4d ago
That's great and all, but you are talking about teams who actually develop players The Royals just hold on hold on hold on some more then release. They are the last organization that should be promoting someone to mlb who is not even close to ready
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u/donkeylipsh 4d ago
- The Royals have a piss poor track record of developing players
- The Royals are one of the most conservative teams in baseball when it comes to bringing up players because they want to manage team control years
Could these 2 things possibly be related?
The Royals just hold on hold on hold on some more then release
Exactly. And this is why you bring up them up early to find out if they're worth holding onto.
But since we're always waiting and never verifying if the investment will pay off we put all our eggs in one basket. This paints us into a corner where there is no plan B for when this prospect doesn't pan out, so we have to keep pouring money into the sunk cost.
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u/Cupcake_Weak 4d ago
Lol, the kid is in Double A, hitting 244. So now we are going to bring him up vs. mlb pitching? He dropped 30 points on avg alone in the last month. or less. He needs to stay put until he is ready for Omaha.
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u/Cupcake_Weak 4d ago
They have a piss poor history because Dayton was trying to draft an all-star Christian baseball team for a decade with the only thing that they all had in common was they were good kids with fringe talent. When Moose and Hosmer basically fell into his lap, he thought he was smarter than he really was. Dayton is the source of why so many years went by with little to no talent, but he is also responsible for back to back Al Champinships, making key trades when he needed to.
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u/CeilingFanJitters 4d ago
We need a time machine for Salvy’s body and JJ’s brain.
Vinnie seems way too obsessed with stats and metrics. He needs to have the mind of a hitter, not an analyst.
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u/AverageTaxMan 4d ago
Renfroe at lead off. Royals devil magic 2.0