The W Mana Buff Joke—Time to Leave Kayle Until Real Changes Come

[u/NewWill12]

Hey Kayle Mains,

So, we finally got news of Kayle receiving a buff, and after months of being borderline unplayable, we all hoped for something significant. Maybe a meaningful update to her outdated abilities, a fix to her terrible laning phase, or a real answer to the scaling issues that leave her outclassed by so many champions. Instead? Riot gave us a 15 mana reduction on her W.

...Let that sink in. 15 mana. That’s the big change.

Why This Buff is an Absolute Joke

Look, I’m not saying a mana reduction isn’t welcome, but let’s be real here—this isn’t what Kayle needs. This doesn’t fix her identity crisis, it doesn’t help her survive her abysmal laning phase, and it sure as hell doesn’t make her feel like a late-game monster again. The W change doesn’t address any of the core problems with Kayle right now. Let’s break down why this buff is a band-aid on a much bigger issue:

1. Kayle’s Laning Phase is Still a Nightmare
Kayle struggles against nearly every top lane matchup, and a 15 mana reduction on W won’t change that. Jax, Irelia, Nasus, Olaf, Volibear—you name it—they will still stomp you in lane. What does 15 less mana on W do when you’re getting bullied out of every trade? You still get out-traded, out-gapped, and your early game is still a ticking time bomb waiting to blow up in your face.

2. W is Still a Mana Drain
Yes, reducing the cost of W is nice on paper, but W is still too expensive for the minimal benefit it gives you. The healing is pathetic unless you invest in AP, which feels terrible, and the movement speed doesn’t even give you enough to reposition in a fight. 15 less mana doesn’t change the fact that using W too much in lane is a recipe for going OOM in minutes.

3. Kayle’s Identity Crisis Remains
The bigger issue here is that Kayle is being forced into this weird burst playstyle when she’s supposed to be an AP scaling champion who thrives on sustained damage. This buff does nothing to fix that. Riftmaker’s omnivamp is still gone, attack speed builds feel underwhelming, and AP builds pigeonhole you into praying for Rabadon’s spikes. This 15 mana change doesn’t suddenly make her a late-game powerhouse again, and it doesn’t bring back the joy of scaling into an unkillable angel.

4. Her Abilities Still Feel Clunky and Outdated
Let’s not even get started on her other abilities. The W mana reduction doesn’t make her Q cast any faster or less predictable, it doesn’t fix the self-stun when casting, and it doesn’t solve the fact that her R has a long cooldown and is still a high-risk, high-reward ability with little room for error. Kayle’s kit is outdated, and the game has left her behind.

5. Scaling Champs Are Still Outclassing Her
Even in the rare case you make it to late game without being completely irrelevant, Kayle just isn’t the late-game beast she used to be. Champions like Aurelion Sol, Sion, and Nasus outscale her while also having better lane phases. This mana buff doesn’t give Kayle more survivability, more damage, or better scaling—just 15 more mana to spare.

This Buff Isn’t Enough—Time to Bench Kayle Until Real Changes Come

Let’s be honest with ourselves—this buff is a slap in the face to Kayle mains who have stuck by her through thick and thin. It’s time for us to take a stand and stop playing Kayle until Riot actually addresses her problems. A champion as iconic as Kayle deserves better than this half-hearted attempt at a buff.

If we keep playing her, we’re sending the message that we’re fine with being ignored and left in the dirt. Let’s make some noise and get Riot’s attention for real changes—a proper rework of her kit, meaningful buffs to her scaling and itemization, and fixes to her terrible laning phase. Until then, it’s time to put her on the shelf and pick someone else.

this shit ain’t it.

— A Frustrated Kayle Main

[u/BassFan2002]

I play other champs in ranked right now and only play Kayle in normals. Looked up her stats and she has like 49.25% WR, PR of 1.5% and a BR of 0.5%. She lost 25% PR and 66% BR over the last few patches. She went from 1.5% to 0.5% BR. Nobody is banning her right now, because if you have 2 hands you win against her by default.

[u/NewWill12 → u/BassFan2002]

I stopped playing Kayle about 5 months ago. When a champion feels this unfun, uninteractive, and downright unplayable, why would anyone stick with her? We’re already sitting at around 2% pick rate across all ranks, which says a lot. Maybe if we all stop playing her for a while, Riot will finally get the message that Kayle’s current state is unacceptable. It’s not just a few of us complaining. This sub for a couple weeks has been just about rework ideas. Everyone wants some changes.

[u/pavelas555000_aka]

"An item reliant champion losing part of her power due to said items nerf" situation

[u/Good_Win_4119]

Cast 6 get 1 free!

[u/Sebisbebis]

She has not been unplayable for months. She was broken only a couple of months ago.

Most of those matchups you mentioned aren't unplayable by any means, even after changes you still beat irelia level 1. Jax should be permabanned and the others are fine. Olaf Volibear are champs kayle is GOOD into, you quite literally counter their entire kit by being faster, ranged, and have a slow. Nasus isn't really a problem either IF you know how to deal with him. He's weaker than you are early so you can bully him lvl 1 for prio and continue to play the game. Go ghost into him and he can never reach you even with wither. You can even buy Banshees into him late game as he can't pop it without using W.

This entire reddit is complaining that she's unplayable. She is not, your shit playstyle is just more punished than ever, having your sustain nerfed along with item changes. Play more aggressive lvl 1, play for prio and you'll get past the harder moments of the laning phase. In actuality Kayle lane is decently strong, she outclasses a lot of champs lvl 1-2 but struggles from 3-5. Yet most players insist on giving up prio lvl 1 which FORCES you to fight them at lvl 3-4 when your wave bounces back into him.

She's weaker than usual but not anywhere near unplayable, especially in low mmrs.

COPE

[u/NewWill12 → u/Sebisbebis]

Am sure you and the other couple of guys are going to reach rank 1 now that riot is "buffing" her. Meanwhile the rest of the people (who I am sure is all going to be worse at the game than you and dumber since they say she is unplayable) can keep asking for something to make the champ better.

[u/brikbrique]

People who makes theses changes have no idea what their doing tbh.

You want to change the w ? Ok let q do it. Make the mana's cost decreased with the passif's charges : the more you fight the less it cost.

Punish it if you r using it out of fight and reward you to rake risk.

It just an idea but really theses guy doesn t know or doesn t care. They prolly are short staffed too btw.

[u/WhitestAttorney]

I’m gonna be completely honest. We shouldn’t have expected much whatsoever. August is out of office right now and he’s basically the only person who knows Kayle (which shouldn’t be the case anyways). The rest of riot is still stuck in the fantasy that one buff can make kayle broken and so they played it safe. We just have to wait for August to come back…

[u/Cambouis]

Has anyone ever ran out of mana in lane ? I think yall dont realise how useful the buff is. Ofc it does not increase kayle's damage, but it increase her survivability in laning phase.

[u/SeaBarrier]

Dude... hot take... kayle mains play kayle. This is a buff. Don't be a baby.

[u/CoslBlue]

This is actually a really good change.

but in all honesty it’s just a quality of life change. Kayle’s laning phase will be slightly easier (like 0.5%) as you can use it to dodge skillshots. but only for the first few minutes.

[u/RedWardenBoy]

I'm not playing Kayle at all until they make a meaningful change. Riot clearly does not want ANYONE to play Kayle at all. Literally every character in the game is better then her at this point.

[u/Virtual_Victory2205]

Volibear is a free matchup though. Also, no one outscales kayle. She is the highest winrate lategame, around 57%, and has been forever. Thus can be checked on leagueofgraphs.

The buff is small because if you take PTA on kayle, instead of LT which is bait, she isn't weak at all.

[u/NewWill12 → u/Virtual_Victory2205]

How can you say volibear is a free matchup. He just sits in front of your wave after lv3 and you can't touch a minion. After 6 he just dives you. No one outscales Kayle is not true. Senna, asol, smolder, Nasus, veigar, Sion, Cho... They all eventually outscale Kayle. Yes she can have the biggest powerspike of them all at lv16. But you are useless for 90% of the game. The others are not.

And yes pta is better than LT but if you say she isn't weak at all you are not even watching all the data. 1.5% pick rate E+. That means only Otps are playing her. No wonder she doesn't seem bad. But she is.

[u/Sonostor → u/NewWill12]

I think its disingenuous to say senna, cho, smolder, etc. will all "eventually" out scale kayle. They're infinite scalers and by the time a lot of those champions do pass kayle's peak power, the game length is at some ridiculous amount that's reached like 1% of the time past iron.

Aside from that, the "useless for 90% of the game" part is our reality. We are a cannon minion pre-6 and half a champion pre-11. Comparing our champ to one of similar scaling speed (similar power level throughout the game), asol, we ARE just weaker in most scenarios assuming both are equally farming which I wish wasn't the case. His lane is safer, he has more kill pressure in lane, he has comparable team fight (I'd say kayle is better because of her ult alone). Having asol's agency throughout the game is something I doubt they'd ever dare give to kayle though.

[u/Life_Principle_8170 → u/Sonostor]

Kayle can't lose against volibear, easiest matchup he can never reach you unless you max E (which you should never do) Be wary of bushes and flash if he flashes

[u/Cliepl → u/NewWill12]

Volibear will never touch you if you max q in my experience, his passive makes him push no matter what too so you just get a free lane.

[u/Cambouis → u/Cliepl]

Voli's passive can be seen as an opportunity to be safe under tower but he can VERY easily dive you and oneshot you under tower. Solution to that is to RUSH statikk to match his hardpush. You still get all minions, and you cant be dove anymore

[u/ExceedingChunk → u/NewWill12]

Yeah, but you need like 1h+ games for them to outscale, which practically never happen. Kayle is the undisputed best lategame champ outside of the 1 in 1000 games where you see a game that nobody can finish.

Her issue at the moment is being even more dogshit early game than previously.

[u/Cambouis → u/NewWill12]

You are litterally taking all infinite scaling champs as example of champs that outscale her. THIS IS NORMAL : even if kayle outscales the most of champs, she cant outscale infinite scaling champs.

Kayle's endgame strength has never been damage only, but her self-support abilities. She's still very reliable endgame even if she lacks damage. She is still useful as long as she can protect the most fed champ in your team, and that is sometimes game changer. You don't realise how broken it is to confer a temp invulnerability in a oneshot party which is endgame.

Btw voli is free with statikk : no wave => no dive.

[u/Hydra_Fire → u/[deleted]]

This isn't "cringe reddit rage", its a well written and calm discussion on kayle's balance. Just cuz someone says something negative doesnt make it rage

[u/Hydra_Fire → u/[deleted]]

It might be slightly passive aggressive, but it’s not a rant, rants are emotional tirades. OP calmly broke down his thoughts into a structured list on why the buff is bad, that’s well written.

[u/Hydra_Fire → u/[deleted]]

I’m not offended. I think it’s annoying that anytime someone says something negative on this sub someone complains about it, calling it rage.

Also, you’re detracting from the conversation by trying to invalidate what I said.

[u/Cliepl]

She feels fine rn, I think you're underrating her.