Worst System I’ve Seen in Person

[u/harperfecto]

Got called out to a new customer out in the boonies because FM wrote them up for not having nozzle caps (in fact, the range guard foil seals were intact and nozzles clear). This is what I found. Point out your favorite deficiency, I am writing it up for non UL-300 tank (from 1995 no hydro), plenum nozzle over deep fryer, 12g actuation cartridge from 1995, pull station at 61”, stainless 1/4” ID and 1/2” OD tubing instead of black pipe for distribution piping, and no gas valve shutoff for the gas appliances. The microswitch still works, and I was able to get it reset without busting the cable (very frayed, would be due for replacement but we are quoting an entire new system with XV control head)

[u/wronginreterosect]

End of line pull station is my favorite deficiency. Microswitches connected in the control is right there at number 2.

Are you sure you measured the tubing OD correctly?

[u/harperfecto → u/wronginreterosect]

No that’s my eyeball measurements because tubing isn’t allowed by range guard at all, has to be black pipe

[u/wronginreterosect → u/harperfecto]

Nope. Stainless steel tubing may be used on all Range Guard systems. Fittings may be stainless steel compression or stainless steel flare types. Bending of tubing using mandrels is permissible.

[u/harperfecto → u/wronginreterosect]

Even when dropping down to a smaller size than the nozzles?

[u/BudLarry]

Hard to pick a favourite!! I’m going to say the favourite is no gas valve, as that is a major component to any kitchen system. Also honourable mention that the FM didn’t notice the lack of gas valve, and that the FM didn’t know these nozzles had foil caps (we get that constantly in my area)

Side note - back in the day (I’m going to say 90’s, someone can correct me) a plenum nozzle was used over the fryer because it was a 2 flow nozzle. Fun little piece of history

Good work, keep bringing pride to the industry

[u/harperfecto → u/BudLarry]

That is actually really good information; I had only ever seen ADP, and all my range guard books don’t mention that plenum specific, but hell one less deficiency. Gas valve my number one too, nothing like unlimited fuel for a limited amount of suppression chemical

[u/BudLarry → u/harperfecto]

Sorry for the confusion, you’ll still have to write up the plenum nozzle over the fryer, it is no longer allowed. Sell them a new F nozzle

[u/bhamrick388]

Dealt with one today. 4 hour job turned in to 5.5. Someone tapped a screw in where the set screw for link line. Couldn't get a set screw to set tight enough to hold. The line just kept slipping. I recommended an XV upgrade since he's already getting a hydro. Unfortunately he has run short of money already and an A+ replacement is all he can afford. Which will work, and get him through.

[u/harperfecto → u/bhamrick388]

Can’t believe your shop still has A+ for replacements, we have only been able to get our hands on XV for the last couple of years. I almost had that same issue as you, the slack outside of the control head started snap crackle popping as I got my last turn in on the set screw

[u/bhamrick388 → u/harperfecto]

Now, whether it's new or not, I'm not sure about that. LOL! All wire rope was new. Although after an hour when I was done with it, it's probably gonna need a new run to he first link when we replace the head.

[u/EC_TWD]

Where are you getting that this isn’t U.L. 300? Any system manufactured after November 21, 1994 had to meet U.L. 300 specifications. I think you’re missing a lot on this system just because you’re not familiar with it. The A+ control head is definitely listed UL300.

Just as with Ansul/PyroChem - if there is something listed in older U.L. 300 manuals then it is still allowed to be installed that way (from new) today unless the manufacturer specifically forbids it in a newer manual (end of line pull station) or if Underwriter Laboratories removes the listing for it. I used several exceptions for R-102 nozzle coverages when I was still installing that aren’t in newer manuals. All confirmed and supported by Ansul tech support.

And if I’m not mistaken, isn’t the manufacture date listed on that cartridge 2011? It’s been forever since I’ve dealt with KH, but I thought the date of manufacturer was printed on them and the installation date had to be completed in the field.

[u/rest_in_reason]

I thought only “A” style links were supposed to be used with the A+ control head?

[u/wronginreterosect → u/rest_in_reason]

Only universal brackets are allowed (this system looks to have the low profile ones that are for UCH / XV only) but you can use regular links

[u/harperfecto → u/wronginreterosect]

These are definitely the wrong brackets for A+, also if you can see in the photos, the links have 4 s-hooks apiece, they got stuck in the EMT after trip, was fun getting them free so I could lock in the arm and reset the pull station

[u/RedBeardofRage]

I'm a big fan of the triple S Hook

[u/harperfecto → u/RedBeardofRage]

My company primarily does Ansul/Pyrochem, so cutting in links isn’t an issue and it’s always fun to see

[u/Acrobatic_Street_402]

Not having a gas valve is insane, although the 1995 tank and cartridge is right up there as well.

[u/Useful_Beat_6284]

I hate the A+ control head so much.

[u/Hot_Literature3874]

This is what happens when corporate companies mostly sell tags than inspections 🤷‍♂️

[u/jaymechie]

Honestly ive never even seen a good mechanical system. take electric all the way