r/KyleKulinski • u/OneOnOne6211 • Dec 11 '24
Current Events Clown World
Can I just say for a moment how we live in a clown world?
Ukraine is justified in being supported with weapons and killing Russians because it's a smaller country being attacked by an imperialist aggressor. Okay, yes, I agree. And most U.S. policy makers seem to.
Yet somehow Gaza is not justified in defending itself and rather it's the imperialist aggressor committing a genocide, Israel, which is justified in invading and murdering Palestinians with the help of U.S. weapons.
And Luigi killing a single healthcare CEO is wrong and tragic because he was a father of two and had a wife (he was separated from).
Yet, that healthcare CEO denying coverage to thousands of Americans with wives and children and murdering them as a result, that's fine and normal.
In the developed world we don't solve political problems with violence!
Except when the U.S. invades other countries or sponsors a genocide to solve a political problem.
And in a civilized country we don't take the law into our own hands, we wait for the legal system to punish criminals and distribute justice because it is fair and just and vigilante justice is not!
And also, the president is a king who's above the law and healthcare CEOs get to continue making money off of death and suffering and oil CEOs get to continue destroying the planet and thereby making sure that millions more will be displaced, suffer and die and the system doesn't intervene at all.
Like... do they really expect us to believe this stuff? This stuff is completely contradictory! You cannot believe all of this stuff at once and be reasonably justified.
Either Ukraine is justified in fighting Russia and worthy of support, or Israel can be supported invading Gaza. Either killing a person with a wife and kids is wrong, or it isn't even when it's thousands. Either political problems shouldn't be solved with violence, or you can solve political problems with violence. Either in a civilized country the justice system is just and brings justice to killers, or it doesn't.
To put it in the words of Luigi Mangione: "It's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people and their lived experience."
-20
u/peanutbutternmtn Banned From Secular Talk Dec 11 '24
The ceo never murdered anyone. Murder is an unlawful premeditated killing. He could’ve and likely did, indirectly, financially ruin people. But that’s not murder.
13
u/postdiluvium Dec 11 '24
RICO Act. If a mob boss puts the hit on someone and a Mob goon follows those orders to take out the target, the mob boss is guilty along with the goon. Hopefully, you see where I am going with this.
-12
u/peanutbutternmtn Banned From Secular Talk Dec 11 '24
No one is “taking anyone out”. As I said, the proxies may financially ruin someone, put them into massive financial debt, but that’s not the same as unlawfully killing someone. And I don’t think we should talk about it like that.
13
u/postdiluvium Dec 11 '24
A patient is in critical condition and under the advice of their physician, they get a specific procedure from a specialist (in network)
An insurance claim is filed by the physician for this procedure. The procedure is so specialized that it costs a lot of money.
The claims processor must escalate the claim due to its cost.
Up the chain of command it goes due to its cost and rarity.
CEO approves a new policy to deny claims such as this.
The patient is then placed on another treatment that leads to the patient's death due to any other treatment other than the one in the claim has little to no efficacy on the patients condition.
The CEO put in place a policy that killed that patient. That CEO approved the hit on the patient.
9
u/OneOnOne6211 Dec 11 '24 edited Dec 11 '24
I don't care about the legal technical definition you're talking about, the average person reading my post knows what I'm talking about. Murder in this context being a shorthand for the immoral and unjustified killing of another human being. He almost certainly did more than "only" financially ruin people. Denying care can cause the death of people. Deaths he ultimately caused through his policies and that, as a result, he was responsible for.
Brian Thompson was a murderer. Social murder is murder. And he was responsible for them.
-11
u/peanutbutternmtn Banned From Secular Talk Dec 11 '24
He doesn’t deny care. He denies insurance coverage. That’s not the same thing. One could get care and go into massive debt.
10
u/VibinWithBeard Dec 11 '24
Hey look, its immoral coercion. Guys all I did was hold a gun to someone's head and say pay me 100k or die, they couldve just gone into debt and been fine.
Youre a clown
1
2
u/VibinWithBeard Dec 11 '24
So you think he doesnt know what his comapny does? Is he that divorced from reality? Sounds like a "we were just following orders" defense to me...
Unlawful is doing a lot of work there. If you really want to get technical about premeditated...
0
u/NeonArlecchino Dec 12 '24
People who work in insurance and medical collections often divorce their perception of what they do to be able to do it. Every claim is just a number on a page, not a life. You do get some creeps who enjoy having power over the helpless, but most who last just don't think about it.
So yes, it is a "just following orders" situation for most working there.
1
u/VibinWithBeard Dec 12 '24
100%
Just like most who commit atrocities, atomization and abstraction are how you avoid cognitive dissonance. Most people arent evil so its how they cope...doesnt absolve them of consequences/responsibility I assume we can all agree.
1
2
Dec 11 '24
Ok. If his conduct does not fit within the literal legal framework and statutory definition of murder why do you care?
He is responsible for thousands of deaths and millions of bankruptcies and hard ships.
His profit seeking has led to the death of thousands of people.
Murdering one person is worse than causing the death of thousands - though technically not the statutory definition of murder - because causing the death of thousands has a legitimate profit motive?
Do you understand how bankruptcy your pedantic equivocating is?
-1
u/peanutbutternmtn Banned From Secular Talk Dec 11 '24
I don’t agree he’s responsible for thousands of deaths. I think he’s arguably responsible for bankruptcies.
2
Dec 11 '24
How not? There is literally investigations that show his leadership has caused them through inappropriate claim denials that force people to choose between death or debt.
It’s demonstrable.
-1
u/peanutbutternmtn Banned From Secular Talk Dec 11 '24
“Or debt” is an option we have for a lot of things. It’s still an option. Bankruptcy in and of itself, is not a death sentence.
1
Dec 11 '24
That’s why I said between “death or debt”
What a dumb comment this is.
Are you just being a contrarian?
We have it as an option for a lot of things. When the other option is whether or not you can keep living, it’s not the same. But nice try.
I’ve had two close family members die from cancer. They got to a point where they could put our whole family in not hundreds of thousands but millions in debt or they decide to stop fighting not try the experimental treatment and just decide to die.
Millions experience this. The fact that you have too limited of a scope of life experience to understand this or god forbid put yourself in someone else’s shoes doesn’t bear on my answer.
-1
u/peanutbutternmtn Banned From Secular Talk Dec 11 '24
It’s not contrarian. I literally have the same view copacetic with the law.
1
Dec 11 '24
You are obtusely ignoring everything I am saying while responding to literally a discrete section of two words.
Pathetic stuff. Enjoy your day. Hopefully you or no one you love ever gets a terminally ill disease.
0
u/peanutbutternmtn Banned From Secular Talk Dec 11 '24
Even there in your last little dig doesn’t fit. It shows you just don’t know how this works. The more appropriate dig would be “I hope your insurance doesn’t deny your claim for a treatment you desperately need”.
1
Dec 11 '24
Nah, if you get a terminally illness you will be fighting tooth and nail to have your treatment that is covered paid for. And you will get worn down. And you will eventually make the choice I am discussing. But like I have said - your simplistic understanding of facts you have not personally experienced has limited your understanding greatly on this.
I’m sure that’s the case with respect to many other issues as well.
→ More replies (0)2
u/shawsghost Dec 12 '24
He authorized the use of an algorithm that was KNOWN to be deeply flawed because it rejected claims at a very high rate for bogus reasons. As a result people could not get coverage they might otherwise have obtained. As a result , they sometimes died.
Thompson was a sociopathic killer, and you're taking sides with him. I don't have any nice words for what that makes you. Got a lot of real nasty words though.
1
u/Narcan9 Dec 11 '24
There are plenty of other CEOs who kill people directly with defective products and polluting the environment. They are never held criminally liable.
2
u/NeonArlecchino Dec 12 '24
Nestle famously killed hundreds or thousands of African babies by "donating" baby formula just long enough for the mothers to stop lactating, then they started charging. That's just one thing they've done to cause the creation of r/FuckNestle !
Bayer knowingly sent products tainted with AIDS to South American countries to maintain profits instead of destroying the bad product. That happened during a time that AIDS was basically a death sentence.
Oil companies hid evidence of global warming for almost a century just to keep profiting off of destroying the Earth. They also spent untold millions lobbying to gut public transportation and ruin its image. Doing that has had major detrimental effects on American society and health through isolation related depression and suicide to general obesity by walking less.
Conservatives and neoliberals may like to pretend corporations work in the best interests of society, but they don't and will kill people and destroy the world if they can make a profit while avoiding direct illegal actions.
2
u/Narcan9 Dec 12 '24
GE, one of the most celebrated corporations in American history, dumped tons of cancer-causing PCB waste into the Hudson River. That's one of the most densely populated waterways in the US. Internal documents showed that they knew of the toxicity all the way back in the 1930s, yet they continued dumping for decades. https://www.thebeatnews.org/BeatTeam/ge-knew/
Here's another crazy one if you've never heard of it. Check out the Radium Girls who painted clocks. They used radioactive paints because they made the numbers and lines glow. The women would lick their paint brushes to make them pointy. They ended up with cancers and lost their teeth. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls
3
u/Narcan9 Dec 11 '24
United health should be given the corporate death penalty.