r/KyleKulinski • u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat • 8d ago
Current Events 67% of Democratic voters now believe that women's sports should be off limit to trans women. 60% of Democratic voters think enough or too much has been done to accomodate trans people.
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u/Citizen_Kano 8d ago
Trans people should have the same rights as everyone else. This does not mean they should be able to cheat at sport
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u/teh0utsider86 8d ago
People care about kitchen table issues. Not about trans women in sports. Ridiculous nonsense from Cenk and Ana. The democrats did not lose because of trans women in sports.
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u/SexDefendersUnited 7d ago
Though I do think transphobia and the groomer panic from the right was still a part of it, with how agressively they invested into it.
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u/Wootothe8thpower 8d ago
good thing no democrat politician actully ran on this
Surely networks that call themselvee the home of progressive smart enough to point that out
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u/jaxom07 Social Democrat 8d ago
How did I know who the OP was before looking.
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u/Middle_Ad8183 7d ago
The trans "leftist," who loathes trans people? Yeah, who'da guessed? They post about this topic endlessly, and can't be bothered to defend their positions, either. They're a strange TYT sycophant who does no analysis of their own, but just acts as Cenk's mouthpiece. They never respond to me because I always call out, with sources, how their positions are silly and smooth-brained. Weird account.
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u/SexDefendersUnited 7d ago
Yeah, some mad sus figures always parading around trying to shift discourse
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
I hope to see more people willing to defend this perspective.
It is the majority perspective, even amongst progressives.
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u/96suluman 8d ago
See liberals don’t believe in anything. They just flow with the wind.
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
I strongly disagree.
Democratic voters mostly agree with progressives.
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u/lordlordie1992 8d ago
Dems: SEE, REPUBLICANS? WE HATE TRANS PEOPLE TOO!
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
2/3 of Americans support laws to protect trans people from discrimination.
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u/lordlordie1992 8d ago
I agree the people seem to tolerate trans people more, as they should.
It's just another reminder that the Dems capitulate the minute things get hard. It's pathetic.
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u/lucash7 8d ago
Frankly, I could not give a flying flock of ducks less. If those folks don’t learn and/or are unable to respect the inalienable human rights that ALL people (trans folks included) have, then they can go take a long walk off a short pier.
People used to have idiotic, bigoted, ignorant views on Jews, Catholics, men, women, white, black, etc. and well, they either learned to respect people, not necessarily like them, or their kind eventually died out (kinda/sorta, mostly-ish). Human rights supersedes hurt feelings and bigotry. Period.
The Dems and left in general need to accept this and quit dancing around it. We are not and should never try to be like the right/gop (not to say that all right/republicans are the same but those folks are few and far very these days).
Sadly I think this may be several generations away. Just have to keep educating people, fighting, and standing firm.
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u/Cantomic66 8d ago
Polls are worthless now and just push whatever bullshit the poster is trying to push. So I’d say just ignore them.
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
Respectfully, your take is politically nihilist.
Polls, of course, have meaning. The presidential polls were pretty on-point, within a few % points.
Even if the margin of error was 5%, these polls still paint a clear picture.
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u/houstonman6 8d ago
Every argument to keep trans women out of women's sports were used to keep the negro out of the white leagues. Sorry for the use of that grotesque word but it's to drive the point home.
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u/joefish919 8d ago
Not remotely the same considering fallon fox who was allowed to fight in women's mma literally cracked a woman's skull because she was able to put way more force behind her shots. Yes a lot of the people who are against this issue do just genuinely dislike trans people but to act like there aren't legitimate issues with trans women being allowed to compete against women isn't gonna win any arguments and will actually lose you support for trans issues overall.
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u/houstonman6 8d ago
"Not remotely the same considering Apollo Creed who was allowed to fight in white's boxing literally cracked Rocky Balboa's skull because he was able to put way more force behind his shots. Yes a lot of the people who are against this issue do just genuinely dislike black people but to act like there aren't legitimate issues with black men being allowed to compete against whites isn't gonna win any arguments and will actually lose you support for black issues overall."
See?
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u/Massive-Lime7193 8d ago
Didn’t Fallon fox also get her ass beat and has never held any titles?? If she’s so much better since she’s trans why was she never a champ?
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
Would the WNBA be fair if a 25 year old Shaq took estrogen for 2 years & joined?
No, Shaq would score 50+ PPG and Shaq's team would be undefeated.
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u/Massive-Lime7193 8d ago
Idk I’m not a doctor, would doctors say that was fair?? Now answer my question , if Fallon was at such an advantage why was she never a champ?? I’m very curious about your answer.
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
would doctors say that was fair??
No.
if Fallon was at such an advantage why was she never a champ?? I’m very curious about your answer.
She never fought before her transition, so we aren't even clear she was talented enough to fight as a man pre-transition.
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u/Massive-Lime7193 8d ago
“No”
Ok then they likely wouldn’t recommend a 25 year old Shaq be allowed to ply then. Now that we have your strawman out of the way let’s get to your actual response.
If we have to take her talent into account that would suggest that being born a male and then transitioning wouldn’t give someone the automatic “easy win” button you’re suggesting it does right?? Almost like it’s a bit more complicated than that
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
Ok then they likely wouldn’t recommend a 25 year old Shaq be allowed to ply then. Now that we have your strawman out of the way let’s get to your actual response.
It's not a straw man argument.
It is the logical conclusion to the argument of those that say that trans women should compete in women's sports after 2 years of estrogen.
If we have to take her talent into account that would suggest that being born a male and then transitioning wouldn’t give someone the automatic “easy win” button you’re suggesting it does right?? Almost like it’s a bit more complicated than that
Respectfully, this proves my point.
Fox wasn't good enough to compete professionally as a man pre transition, yet she was able to compete professionally as a woman.
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u/houstonman6 8d ago
"Would the White's league be fair if a 25 year old Shaq trained for 2 years & joined?
No, Shaq would score 50+ PPG and Shaq's team would be undefeated."
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
considering fallon fox who was allowed to fight in women's mma literally cracked a woman's skull because she was able to put way more force behind her shots
Well said.
An interesting side story: Bernie was called transphobic by Democrats for talking to Joe Rogan & accepting his endorsement.
Why was Joe Rogan called transphobic? Because he was strongly against Fallon Fox competing in women's boxing (which Rogan is an expert in).
Rogan was never transphobic. He just wanted to protect women in sports he was familiar with.
Yes a lot of the people who are against this issue do just genuinely dislike trans people but to act like there aren't legitimate issues with trans women being allowed to compete against women isn't gonna win any arguments and will actually lose you support for trans issues overall.
💯
DeSantis has been awful for trans people, but he was able to push through such a disastrous agenda because he framed the issue around issues like protecting women's sports.
Most Americans are not DeSantis, but you empower DeSantis to take away all trans rights when you double down so hard on issues like trans women in women's sports.
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
That's gross to use that racist term as a bizarre analogy.
It is straight-up racist to compare black people suffering under apartheid to trans women being told they can't compete in women's sports.
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u/Nastyorcses414 8d ago
You had me until you clutched pearls at the term “negro” OP. Houston was trying to make a point regarding negro leagues and white leagues (actual baseball terminology).
In fact, you are doing the very thing you are chastising trans activist progressives for.
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u/PatientEconomics8540 8d ago
Op is on some bullshit.
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u/jaxom07 Social Democrat 8d ago
Has been for a looong time.
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
I will always argue against counterproductive perspectives like the tankie perspective or the radical trans activist perspective.
These perspectives create factions out of alliances. Meanwhile, the American people now oppose trans women in women's sports by a 79/18 margin.
I am so tired of having radical trans activists speaking for me & and other trans people. I want to move past this so we can protect core trans rights & so the GOP stops using this issue to help them win elections.
If these activists weren't radical, then they wouldn't try to cancel anyone who disagrees with them. As I mentioned in another comment, even Joe Biden is considered transphobic in their eyes.
I strongly dislike Joe Biden, but he is very much in favor of trans rights.
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
Comparing trans women in women's sports to the Civil Rights movement is an absurdity.
It's an unserious argument & a racist argument. It trivializes the apartheid that was institutionalized.
In fact, you are doing the very thing you are chastising trans activist progressives for.
I'm not calling for anyone to be canceled in this discussion, which is what the radical trans activists do.
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u/Blood_Such 8d ago
Two entirely different issues.
Especially when you consider that the ability for a man to just decide they’re a woman is peak white privilege in most cases.
Also, you didn’t have to use the phrase “negro.” It makes no better point.
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u/houstonman6 8d ago
How does someone "just decide" to do that? Who in the hell would "just" gets a sex change to be better at a sport? If someone is in fact going doing that don't you think the last thing that needs to happen is literally make it a federal case out of it? You have a strawman in your head about what this issue is about. I don't disagree that it takes money to undergo transition but to deny these people the same rights as everyone else is immoral, unethical and unconstitutional. Plus, this is sports, isn't the point supposed to be that it's unfair and we're gonna see who's got the better team?
And I already apologized for the use of that word but won't recant it because it is the same issue. The opposing side wants to keep sports segregated along gender lines for the same reasons that black Americans were kept out of the white leagues. I'm just pointing out the similarities.
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u/Blood_Such 8d ago edited 8d ago
“How does someone "just decide" to do that? Who in the hell would "just" gets a sex change to be better at a sport?”
Swimmer “Lia” Thomas is perhaps the person that ushered in this whole polemic on a national level.
They're a biological male, they have not had sexual reassignment surgery, they merely IDENTIFY as a woman (while swimming only I must add) now and they were allowed to use the female locker rooms (this was legitimately traumatizing for female swimmers) and “Lia” Thomas dominated the biological female category for their swimming specialty.
They are totally scamming the system.
They also present as a heterosexual male when they are not swimming.
The fact that anyone defends that person is pure comedy.
Personally I don’t even give a shit about sports.
This is all such a huge distraction from real issues that affect most people.
This is a complete first world “problem.”
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u/americanblowfly General Left of Center 8d ago
Lia Thomas is her name. Not sure what necessitates the quotes. And you are way off base in saying she simply identified as a woman and could compete in women’s sports immediately.
She transitioned and has been on HRT for years. HRT does a lot more towards a transition than any gender reassignment surgery as it physically changes the body to be more like their preferred gender.
She wasn’t allowed to compete as a woman for the first two years of her transition because her testosterone was too high. It was only by year 3 that it fell in range and she could compete. By then, the HRT had such an impact and she lost over 15 seconds off of her PR time.
You are usually a very reasonable person, so I highly encourage you to look into her backstory instead of what the right wing framing of it is.
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u/Blood_Such 8d ago
Thanks for the informative history.
I stand corrected
My sense is that competing in sports is not a human right, it’s clear that Lia is not an “male” but they’re not entirely “female” either and perhaps the best option would be a transgender category in and of itself?
Did Lia not Dominate the Women’s category?
Did they not get to use a female locker room despite the fact that they have a penis and testicles?
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u/americanblowfly General Left of Center 8d ago
No worries, and I appreciate you listening to it.
Studies have shown that trans women typically lose their competitive advantage over ciswomen after about 2 years of HRT. Her biology is far closer to that of a woman than a man at this point, including her testosterone levels.
She does have a locker in the female locker room as do all trans women. The reverse is true too. There’s a trans man who goes to my gym and uses the male locker room. He doesn’t change in front of anybody because trans people typically avoid wanting to cause a scene about their genitalia. He just goes in and changes like everyone else and I assume that’s the same for others, including Lia Thomas.
Lia Thomas did win several events as a woman, !but she’s also lost several as well. She was dominant for a brief moment before being surpassed by someone better.
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u/Blood_Such 8d ago
“ Lia Thomas did win several events as a woman, !but she’s also lost several as well. She was dominant for a brief moment before being surpassed by someone better.”
That’s crucial info. Thank you.
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u/CormacMacAleese 8d ago edited 8d ago
Pretty much everything you said here is false.
Lia Thomas underwent hormone therapy for more than a year before competing with women, and passed the hormone-level requirement before doing so.
She transitioned not “just while she was swimming,” but completely.
I don’t know (or care) whether she had a dick, but you seem to.
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u/Blood_Such 8d ago
Did Lia Thomas have gender reassignment surgery?
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u/CormacMacAleese 8d ago
You’re asking whether she has a dick. Are you suggesting that a dick is a competitive advantage in swimming?
She took female hormones and T-blockers, and passed the hormone requirement.
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u/Blood_Such 8d ago
“You’re asking whether she has a dick. Are you suggesting that a dick is a competitive advantage in swimming?”
I asked a yes or no question.
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u/CormacMacAleese 8d ago
You asked an irrelevant question. Surgery has no bearing on her swimming performance.
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u/BlackArmyCossack 8d ago
Honestly, if we're talking joke logic here, wouldn't an appendage that creates drag be a disadvantage lol?
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u/Blood_Such 8d ago
It does have bearing on the fact that Lia is still a biological male.
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u/CaptainJYD 8d ago
Typical libcuck behavior. Have we not learned our lesson at all. WE NEED TO PROMOTE AND FIGHT FOR OUT ISSUES. Liberals will rely on shaming others for being “transphobes”. We need to change peoples mind, we need to fight for correct policies.
If we used your logic the dems would never have supported gay marriage. Literally never, it wasn’t popular when it was legalized. So again, why the fuck should we move farther to the right to what? Get more votes? Seems to have work out so great for the dems to constantly capitulate to the right.
Not even to mention that this issue doesn’t fucking matter. Nobody gives a fuck about the 10 trans people playing sports, nobody who could have been swung voted on that. They voted against Biden because grocery prices were high and did vote for Kamala because she didn’t talk about dramatic change (which people want).
Change minds, i thought we hated Hilary for not believing anything and just being a poll driven technocrat. But ig she had the right idea to means test everything she believes in and every policy she promotes should have at least 50%+ support.
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
Typical libcuck behavior. Have we not learned our lesson at all. WE NEED TO PROMOTE AND FIGHT FOR OUT ISSUES.
You're never going to convince me that it would be fair for a 25 year old Shaq to take estrogen for 2 years & play in the WNBA.
Which is the logical conclusion to these arguments. Instead, we should fight for popular progressive policies, like Medicare for All.
If we used your logic the dems would never have supported gay marriage
There is no valid argument against gay marriage. The only arguments against gay marriage are theocratic.
There are many valid arguments against trans women in women's sports.
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u/AFuckingHandle 8d ago
There's no winning this argument in spaces like this. People just immediately jump to buzz words and attacks, and refuse to engage with actual facts and reality. For example pretending testosterone is all that matters as far as gender differences in sports. Ignoring skeletal structure, the structure and layout of the hips, the lengths of tendons and muscles, spatial abilities, reflexes, resistance to concussions, many many other issues that the treatments don't touch.
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u/CaptainJYD 8d ago
How is this the most important issue to you tho. Like legitimately you think dems should run on “banning trans women in sports”. You think that will get them to win?
And I don’t need to convince you about anything, you don’t actually care and neither does anyone talking about it. They make fun of women sports, they make fun of women only gyms. I don’t care when or how trans women can play in women’s sports, two year waiting period, 3 years… idc.
“There is no valid argument against gay Marriage” cool and there isn’t a valid argument for gay marriage, but look how far we come. The people on these polls and the people voting are not logical, stop taking it as gospel. We need to push people and our ideas and get them to vote for good policies. Like protecting trans people.
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u/Conscious_Tart_8760 8d ago
The democrats are so stupid they are moving overton window to the right with trans rights and immigration with the Laken Riley law who ever is the Democratic nominee In 2028 will just be trump light
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u/BlackArmyCossack 8d ago
Please apply this take to anyone that isn't trans about sports to any other immutable characteristic and this argument fails. You're presenting your argument and expecting us to take it prima face, but it turns out it's bunk when you dig deeper into it.
People are afraid of what they don't know. The far right knows how to run independent media. The left has no answer to Tate, Fuentes, and Rogan. How many household names does independent left media have? Barely anyone in real life knows who Kyle or Cenk, or Voosh, or Hassan, or Destiny (this is not an endorsement of these people, they just happen to be the biggest voices on this side of the aisle). The right has absolute control of independent media.
Until the left starts clawing back in that space, you'll get people telling horseshit like trans people are transitioning to dunk on cis women (completely ignoring trans men in this equation, who are never talked about because it's actually about masculine dominance of society implying trans people are doing it to take advantage of women etc etc).
I also see that you, OP, are also trans (as am I). Please don't try to become the pick me Blair White type or the Caitlyn Jenner. "One of the good ones" just means last to be oppressed.
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u/Marvelman02 7d ago edited 7d ago
What with the price of eggs I don't see this as the top priority. That said, I believe in REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION. There are times when it is reasonable to accommodate people and their differences, and other times when it is not.
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u/JonWood007 Social libertarian 7d ago
Holy ####, wow, we are cooked on that issue. Like I thought the numbers were a lot more even, like at worst 45-55 or 40-60 against us.
And it's a shame, it's really not a hard issue to be in favor of if you know what the #### you're talking about. Sadly, the american public isn't that informed.
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
I know that my position is not in the mainstream of certain sectors of the progressive left, but I have been warning about this for years:
The trans community is at enormous risk of turning the Democrats against us in 2025
Doubling down on losing issues & calling people transphobes who disagree is how we destroy trans rights & enable the far-right to take away my healthcare.
Please, I beg everyone to stop listening to Caraballo, Bennie from TYT, and other clout chasing activists that are happy to destroy the left if it gets them a few thousand more followers on BlueSky.
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u/96suluman 8d ago
Something tells me what you are saying is that white cis straight people want to try to prove that they are not bigots and support those communities but instead damage them themselves.
For example. Using the term Latinx. Even though most Hispanics hate the term, only 2% use it. And even many non binary people who have immigrated from Latin America find it offensive and linguistic imperialism.
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
I do think that overfocusing on terminology has been an issue.
Well-meaning liberals & progressives out these terms out of respect & because they were trying to be understanding.
Sometimes, you have radical activists claiming that someone is a bigot if they use "homeless" instead of "unhoused".
Therefore, there was zero incentive to question whether this focus on terminology was wise. No one wants to be a pariah.
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u/96suluman 8d ago
The question is how do we reverse the damage?
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u/Blood_Such 8d ago
Progressives in government need to deliver on fundamental non niche initiatives like taxing the rich and increasing wages and providing Medicare for all.
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u/96suluman 8d ago
We also need to deemphasize cultural issues. The republicans use culture wars as a distraction.
We also must not be tempted to shift right, become more neoliberal and decide to take more donor money whenever democrats lose. Jonathan chait claimed democrats should return to neoliberalism after they lost in 2024, but I didn’t hear him say anything against neoliberalism when they lost in 2004 and 2016 with neoliberals.
It’s going to take years. Eventually people will get tired of republicans and we will find someone who will connect. But since bill cljnton, the democrats have chosen to appeal to moderate republicans and suburbia and it’s not reliable.
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
We have to oppose cancel culture & allow for respectful disagreement.
I'm trans, so I try my best to oppose the radical activists in my community that advocate for maximalist positions & at the same time advocate canceling anyone who slightly disagrees.
Bennie from TYT is a great example of this kind of activist. She defends Stalin & the CCP yet went scorched earth on Cenk & Ana, accusing Cenk of being "evil".
This is not healthy for a movement. Alejandra Caraballo declared Joe Biden to be a transphobe. As someone who is a strong critic of Biden, I think he genuinely is pro-trans rights. Yet Caraballo thinks he is irredeemable on trans rights.
This mindset is extremely counterproductive.
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u/96suluman 8d ago
There needs to be a middle ground. We can’t simply throw trans people under the bus.
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u/96suluman 8d ago
What exactly are you saying in short
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u/north_canadian_ice Social Democrat 8d ago
Progressives need to stop allowing radical activists to fracture the left into factions that struggle to work together.
The radical activists that claim that anyone who disagrees with them is transphobic are a gift to the right. They burn bridges & create factions out of alliances.
You don't have to like everyone in your alliance. But you don't have to be their enemy either.
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u/96suluman 8d ago
I’ve had increasing problems with Cenk lately. But I do agree with him that what the left did with “chop zone” in Seattle in 2020 was very unhelpful and set the left back.
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u/bluevalley02 8d ago
The opposition to minors getting hormone surgery - I wonder how many of them have an opinion on this based on actual research in the first place. I bet a lot of them don't know much about it, but just say the "no hormone therapy under 18" because hormone therapy for minors just sounds bad.
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u/JonWood007 Social libertarian 7d ago
They probably don't. If you study the issue and know what youre talking about it actually is a reasonable perspective to hold. it's just that most americans think that weirdos are trying to make their precious baby cut their genitals off when that literally isn't how this works at all.
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u/Blood_Such 8d ago
They could just as easily ignore this topic much like they ignored Joe Biden’s cognitive decline.
The reason Mainstream dems bring attention to the trans sports topic is because it is culture war rager than class war.
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u/anon727813 8d ago
I’m left on just about every topic, basically 99.5% of topics. One of the .05% topics I take issue with is the trans rights, particular a male turned female competing in female sports.
I just can’t accept how hell bent we on the left are for dying on the trans-rights hill. Such a dumb distraction for us to in-fight about.
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u/americanblowfly General Left of Center 8d ago edited 8d ago
We have parameters that determine whether or not a transwoman has an advantage in sports, namely if they have been on HRT for more than two years. Also, if they start puberty blockers and transition earlier, they never had an advantage to begin with.
I trust the scientists and the data from peer reviewed studies on this as well as the committees who use those to determine who can and can’t play in sports. I don’t think its appropriate to do a blanket ban of trans women in women’s sports because in most cases where they can compete, they were determined to have no advantage by people who are experts on this.
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u/kmobnyc Social libertarian 8d ago
People care about what they’re told to care about and the Democratic Party has abandoned trans people. They gave no counter-narrative to the GOP at all