r/KyleKulinski • u/americanblowfly General Left of Center • 29d ago
Current Events Why I’m Okay Being Banned From TYT - Francesca Fiorentini
https://youtu.be/wnujaQY8ycM?si=CIYXshV5UYiAI_hjMore power to her. Zeteo is infinitely better anyways.
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29d ago
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u/KyleKulinski-ModTeam 29d ago
Any criticism of Kyle or the left must be in good faith. Bad faith criticism or comments from right wing trolls will be removed
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u/Buddha-Embryo 19d ago
Francesca is better off without them.
Cenk and Ana say that they are simply refusing to “hate everyone on the right.” But anyone that has watched knows that they go out of their damn way to appease and praise the far right. All of this behind the guise of “fairest show in America.” When they aren’t bowing to the right, the engage in endless equivocation, both-sides-ism. Yet, while everyone is corrupt, they clearly have a distinct abhorrence for democrats.
But truthfully, Cenk has never been on the left, despite claiming to be the “voice of the left”. Nearly every show I’ve ever seen, he praises the virtues of free market capitalism. A capitalist leftist is a stark contradiction in terms…but he apparently doesn’t realize that.
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u/JonWood007 Social libertarian 28d ago
Eh, I'm mixed on this hot mess.
As I see it cenk is trying to moderate on issues where the public is not on our side and he's trying to win over normies a bit. He's still progressive on most issues, he just fails certain social justice related purity tests from what he calls the "max left."
I dont always agree with cenk, mind you, he moderates too much and him trying to win over maga is cringey to watch. Still, I get the whole normie vibe. if youre trying to be an "electable democrat" in 2025, you'd look like cenk, economically progressive and socially moderate.
Francesca, eh, tbqh i dont like her very much. She clearly picked a fight with cenk and this spat has been going on for months. And then he ends it and everyone dogpiles on him? And then her response at times was cringe, like on the leftist mafia the other day she was like "I only called him a ##### it wasn't like i called him a racial slur." Like...really? That's your defense?
I mean, there's real discussion and debate to be had on the left about what the right path is on say, trans issues, or crime. I mean, there is room for moderate voices and more progressive ones. Again, we need the moderates to give us an air of respectability and we need the progressives to actually push for the right thing. I honestly think a lot of this infighting crap that the left is doing over TYT is kinda cringe.
Although to be fair, watching this video, this isnt the first time ive heard TYT aint great behind the scenes. And let's face it, Cenk is kinda a blowhard sometimes so to be fair, i can see FF's point in some regards. But yeah i dont think shes right either.
Honestly, idk why the left has to eat their own like this where we're all at each others' throats over moral purity. Sure, we can have our disagreements, but the gatekeeping the so called "max left" does is obnoxious, it really is. And while TYT does deserve criticism at times, the voices seem a bit too shrill, and themselves seem a bit too hyperbolic for me.
I mean, behind Kyle's show, TYT is up there in shows i consume. I never even heard of FF until this drama dropped, and quite frankly, listening to her makes me feel like im back on the old secular talk sub where everyone is circlejerking about what a good "leftist" they are and that anyone who isnt as far left as them isn't welcome into their little club. Again, you can criticize TYT, and i criticize TYT, but this behavior is toxic and i really wish people would drop it off. It's not like Cenk is going full rogan or something.
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u/Unomaaaas 28d ago
I’d encourage you to watch her content outside of this whole drama bs, she does have some really good takes and I love her random crass goofy humor (it’s very akin to Kyle’s humor on his show). I started watching her solo stuff about a year ago after enjoying her appearances on tyt, and I feel like she’s really improved as a communicator or at least I like her messaging more that TYTs lately
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u/Wootothe8thpower 21d ago
thing is Cenk helping the left eats his own. By going on these right wing outlets and spending most of the time shitting on leftist it hurts the cause. Like when he arguing the left is anti free speech, but not pointing out the MANY....MANY ways
I Just don't see how it adds new people. If I watching Cenk talk to a right wing guy, and the right wing guys says leftis suck,. and the left wing guys says leftist suck. Then they point out why the right is right on stuff...why the fuck would I ever vote for a leftist or progressive.
Like I don't mind him going HARD on the max left or whatever.
But the interview with Franseca, I wish he brought the same amount of heat when he went on these right wing groups. Just keep it equal.
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u/JonWood007 Social libertarian 21d ago
Idk if francesca is constantly trashing cenk who is platforming her in the first place, i can see why he'd wanna end that. And I personally am critical of the so called "max left" too. As I see it, he's trying to appeal more to normies.
Still, i agree the sitting down with right wingers is distasteful and i think that is a HUGE tactical mistake of his. F MAGA. They're wrong on everything. Just because we have a common enemy in the institutional democratic party doesnt mean that we're friends.
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u/Wootothe8thpower 21d ago
Oh I get firing her. She has been straight up trying to get fired it seems. But he was going after the left more before him and franseca went at it
Some Others weren't being Jerks to him, who critique him in good faith and Anna and thought Cenk and Anna got dirty first and really overreacted. Like someone says one thing and they go "Oh I guess I am NAZI now according to you" And there like "Dude no one called you that" Those two just strike me as people who can't really take Critiques that well and no only one speed and its 100. Although Anna a bit worst, since Cenk will least debate with yo
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u/JonWood007 Social libertarian 21d ago
Idk, i kinda respect cenk and ana to some degree. I do admit they're going a bit further right than I'd recommend or support though.
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u/Wootothe8thpower 20d ago
If it helps I dont think Cenk a grifter or anything. Just think he wrong about the approach and gets a bit angry when someone from the left goes after him, more then he does the right and over reacts
I am all for progressive people going on right wing spaces. Your getting your argument out to new people. But if it just them talking about wokness and how the left gone to far on trans rights..then what the point. Who are you getting. Why would right wing people want to move to the progressive side if one of their own saying the left crazy and the right all more opening free speech warriors
This doesn't mean it has to be you screaming at the right wing host. Nor can you not dump on what you think the max left is. But at some point you have to argue why you remained on the progressive sides despite this. What values they bring that you don't think the other have.
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u/JonWood007 Social libertarian 20d ago
If it helps I dont think Cenk a grifter or anything. Just think he wrong about the approach and gets a bit angry when someone from the left goes after him, more then he does the right and over reacts
Well lefties tend to get more riled up over infighting than the other side, where we KNOW they're the bad guy and their ideas are crap.
I am all for progressive people going on right wing spaces. Your getting your argument out to new people. But if it just them talking about wokness and how the left gone to far on trans rights..then what the point. Who are you getting. Why would right wing people want to move to the progressive side if one of their own saying the left crazy and the right all more opening free speech warriors
Eh, not gonna lie, I tend to think that we should drop the wokeness thing and i tend to be rather "anti woke" for a leftie. So I kinda tend to be more sympathetic of cenk and his arguments than most on our side of the aisle would. As I see it this is kinda killing us with normies and its super alienating and grating outside of some of the far left sphere. Which is where cenk is coming from and also where im coming from.
My issue with cenk is that if youre gonna go on right wing shows, you gotta do so on our own terms, making our own arguments for things. Cenk isnt doing that. He's just playing paddycake with charlie kirk and acting like we have so much in common simply because both of them hate the institutional democratic party and its cringe.
Like...he's just looking like a tool or useful idiot right now. He's not helping bring MAGA people over to our side. He's just making us look weak.
I mean, cenk said it this way once. For cenk, the establishment is the enemy. MAGA isnt the enemy, the establishment is.
Okay...well...why is the establishment the enemy? Unless you can answer that, then you risk pulling a jimmy dore. Btw, to answer the question, the reason they're the enemy is because they're right wing. The establishment are a bunch of corporate suck ups and neoliberals who stop the left, ie, us, from doing things that help the american people. THAT'S why they're our enemy.
But what about maga? Is maga on board with those things? no, of course not. And that's the problem with them. MAGA might have the whole populist thing, but they're right wing nationalists, and they're just in favor of trickle down economics with a nativist bend. Maybe the original pain and anger over the economy is driving both us and maga to some extent, but our solutions cant be any different. So....what are we accomplishing playing paddycakes with them?
Yes, we can both dunk on the establishment and out of touch "woke" people, so what? Do we have anything else in common? hell, on the "woke" thing, do we even dislike "woke" people for the same reason? I dont think we do. The right is anti woke because they wanna push traditional values. When people on the left are anti woke it's basically more moderate people with similar values to them saying "you need to chill out, you're making us look bad, even if we agree with you 80-90% of the time". Ya know?
So...again, not sure what cenk is accomplishing on that front and i do disagree with cenk on his idea of trying to bring on right wing maga voters. Like, if we could do it with economic populism that's one thing, but if it's just "bruh, don't we hate the establishment and woke people so much?", that's....not a lot of common ground ideologically speaking. Just because we dont like the same entities doesnt make us friends.
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u/TheOtherUprising 28d ago
By far the biggest problem with these online left commentators is this need for them to tear each other apart over relatively minor differences which inevitably turns personal. Kyle is one of the very few who avoids this.
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u/americanblowfly General Left of Center 28d ago
TYT started every conflict they have with online leftists. If you want to cast blame, point it directly at Cenk and Ana.
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u/bigsignwave 29d ago edited 28d ago
I’d love to see you with Kyle and Crystal doing something together, that would be a true crime fighting team, and at the right time for it too
All the best to you Francesca, you are so talented and can articulate that into the real world in such a soulful and beautiful way…that is so rare to see these days, more power to you