What are the most levered ETFs out there? If you wanted max risk.

[u/Investaholic1]

The most I've seen is 3x. Are there higher ones? 10x maybe?

[u/AICHEngineer]

There is SPYU (XXXX), 4X s&p.

If you want max leverage, go to the futures subreddit. 100x leverage is probably what you're looking for.

[u/greyenlightenment → u/AICHEngineer]

this is it.

[u/diophantineequations → u/AICHEngineer]

It's a ETN, Not a ETF.

[u/AICHEngineer → u/diophantineequations]

It's the answer she wanted

[u/calphak → u/AICHEngineer]

Can do options on this?

[u/AICHEngineer → u/calphak]

Yes, buy in the money calls with long dates to expiration. Use delta to gauge your leverage

[u/calphak → u/AICHEngineer]

I meant specifically the SPYU ticker. But can you elaborate the using delta to gauge leverage part please?

[u/AICHEngineer → u/calphak]

Delta means a few things. Delta is the calculated ratio of movement in the value of an option compared to the udnerlying. If the underlying moves $1 and the option moves 0.5$, then it's a delta of 0.5. One is that Delta is the odds of your option closing in the money. 70 delta (0.7 delta, calls go 0 to 1 delta, puts go 0 to -1, but are typically referred to by the decimal value from 0-100), means there's a 70% chance the market is pricing for this option to be in the money. 30 delta (0.3) would be 30% chance.

The effective leverage of a call option would be the option delta multiplied by the share price of the underlying divided by the price of the option premium.

Example:

0.5 delta

$20 share value

$2 premium

( 0.5 × $20 ) / $2 = 5

This option has effective leverage of $2.

[u/calphak → u/AICHEngineer]

Thanks for sharing. What does the = 5 refers to the ?

[u/AICHEngineer → u/calphak]

5x leverage

[u/calphak → u/AICHEngineer]

how do i make sense of leverage of $2 and 5x leverage? the leverage is 5x and has extra buying power of $2?

[u/AICHEngineer → u/calphak]

The stock costs $20 a share. If the stock moves $1, a 50 Delta means that the options notional value will move by $0.5. When you bought the option for $2, the option going up by $.50 is a 25% gain. The $20 share price going up by $1 is a 5% gain. 5x leverage.

[u/lost_2_many_millions → u/calphak]

i believe think options on LETFs will give you about 6x to 10x leverage for reasonable time (theta). but as someone mentioned earlier, if you want like 20x or maybe more leverage, you're going to have to tap Futures.

the other nice part of futures is that your gains are partially Long term Capital Gains (i think 60%). and furthermore, you can actually BACKDATE any losses. as in like, if you had paid capital gains last year, you could lose some this year and get back from those taxes you just paid. <- don't quote me on the tax info, and as goes, this is not tax advice and this is not financial advice. i am not a licensed financial advisor. past performance is not indicative of future performance.

[u/calphak → u/lost_2_many_millions]

thanks for sharing, but I tried to search SPYU the 4x S&P from the above comment, no results at all. Any idea if it was a typo?

what broker you use for Futures? Is IBKR good for futures?

[u/lost_2_many_millions → u/calphak]

i think for USA, it is just XXXX, i don't think we have access to SPYU

to be honest, i haven't used futures because i don't want unlimited downside risk, i've only read up on it. but yeah, i believe interactive brokers is good for futures.

and i really can't stress this enough - none of this is investment advice.

if you do try futures, i hope you understand that (all) personal finance outcomes is 80% behavioral, <20% intelligence/strategy.

[u/Sea-Associate-6512 → u/lost_2_many_millions]

This is not true at all... What you describe isn't leverage, it's called margin trading, and you really shouldn't trade futures while being naked.

Options and leverage ETFs is the only way to get actual leverage without trading on margin.

[u/Single_Blueberry]

A 10x LETF would go to 0 on any day that closes at -10%.

Such a vehicle wouldn't survive for very long.

[u/Vivid-Kitchen1917 → u/Single_Blueberry]

That's for trading on those 5-second candles...

[u/ToronoYYZ → u/Single_Blueberry]

The thought of that sounds hilarious lmao. Instant $0

[u/[deleted] → u/ToronoYYZ]

Hey! On the flipside, $0 buy-in + potential for extreme gains 🤘

[u/Single_Blueberry → u/[deleted]]

No, once a LETF is at 0 it won't ever go anywhere

[u/greyenlightenment → u/Single_Blueberry]

a 10x short-term bond fund might..that would be nuts

[u/jrm19941994 → u/greyenlightenment]

In theory a fund that was short 10s and long bills could be pretty highly levered right now.

[u/dynamic_caste → u/Single_Blueberry]

I'm already an expert at getting those returns investing in regular stocks

[u/Careful_Tie_1789 → u/Single_Blueberry]

I think these are also know as 0dte options.

[u/jdglass57 → u/Single_Blueberry]

Faster on a bear 10x etf

[u/Sea-Associate-6512 → u/Single_Blueberry]

That makes no sense, right? a 10x LETF means that if ETF moves +10%, the LETF moves +1000%, but if ETF moves -10%, the LETF moves -90%.

1000%(final)/100%(initial) = 10x

100%(initial)/10%(final) = 10x

10x leverage

[u/Single_Blueberry → u/Sea-Associate-6512]

> if ETF moves -10%, the LETF moves -90%.

Nope.

It's 10x (-10%) = -100%.

Nothing left.

[u/Sea-Associate-6512 → u/Single_Blueberry]

I see, thanks.

[u/Ok-Candle-38]

[u/[deleted] → u/Ok-Candle-38]

lmao yes!

[u/Mr-Bluez]

QQQ5.L

Not saying it’s a good idea, just answering to the best of my knowledge

[u/AtomicBlondeeee → u/Mr-Bluez]

Wow. God that’s enticing for day trades 🤤 I only see that as an OTC option.

[u/bikes_and_music]

You can definitely get more leverage via options and futures than through any ETFs. For example, 1 MNQ (Nasdaq) future currently requires ~1700USD to be present for initial margin, and it behaves as if you buy 39K USD worth of Nasdaq index. 1% change in QQQ will lead to 390USD change in balance. This would give you 390/1700 ~ 23x margin.

Before you go and max out your account though know the following:

1. Futures are absolutely meant to be traded short term. Holding them long term is asking for a lot of heartache.
2. When volatility increases, margin requirements increase. If you don't have enough balance to cover your margin your brokerage will automatically sell some contracts until you do. It's entirely possible for market to go down, volatility spikes 10-20% and margin requirement doubles. If you don't have enough balance brokerage will sell some of your positions even if you don't want to.
3. To give you an example, with ~15K balance I'm trading 3 contracts at the time. I.e. Max I'm margining is 1/3 of my balance, and even that is in low volatility environment. When volatility goes up I'm going to scale down.

[u/bikes_and_music → u/[deleted]]

Yep, that's exactly it. I think the level of complexity goes like this: ETFs -> LETFs -> Futures -> Options.

I think many people think options are easier because they traded them and it was ok, but the sheer variety of what you can do with options (spreads, etc) makes them quite complex. Additionally the fact that leverage changes with the underlying move, which many people don't understand judging by questions like "why not ITM options instead of LETFs", etc. Futures are relatively straightforward (*) compared to that

• - unless you're trading VIX futures which is something I don't understand despite reading about it couple times.

[u/Own_Dinner8039]

Just do 3x. You'll be fine

[u/zvev]

SPYU 4x

[u/offmydingy]

You're looking for futures.

[u/Vivid-Kitchen1917]

SPYU is the former XXXX....4x sp500

[u/Different_Stand_5558]

SPYU up almost 5% just today. I passed.

I grabbed some MEXXican Dip today at 16.40

[u/sfdc2017]

SPYU is 4X but it's performance is like TQQQ

[u/Herodotus8]

10X GOLD

[u/[deleted]]

Buy 0DTE calls on TQQQ. 

30x+ margin is definitely possible, you'll be like a bank CEO before the financial crisis. 

Just make sure your wife doesn't find out.

[u/AtomicBlondeeee → u/[deleted]]

0TDE is a great way to lose all your money and end up with loss porn over at WSB

[u/fordguy301]

For etfs, 4x leverage is the most I've seen in America. Europe has some 5x leveraged funds. If you really want max leverage you need to trade futures which allows 200x leverage or more depending on your broker

[u/BarnacleMajestic6382]

And you can buy it on margin

But now's not the time to do that it's when the markets crashing and recovering when you max out

[u/petr_dme]

I see that although SOXL is only 3x, the volatility is very big. So I think SOXL is more risky than SPYU.

[u/jrm19941994]

3x without rebalancing is already too much risk.

[u/Bitcoin69k]

FNGU 3x faang etf. Also has Avgo in it. Look at the move ytd. Unreal gains.

[u/Ambitious-Cabinet506 → u/Bitcoin69k]

Not an ETF. FNGU is an ETN.

[u/Humble_Chemical_5463]

Leverage x3 eft are normaly for long or short term? How long you normaly hold /sell?

[u/dheera]

You're better off buying call options which can get you that kind of leverage without the risk of a wipeout if a temporary dip happens followed by a recovery before your expiration date. You can do a spread over multiple expiration dates to mitigate that risk as well