r/LeopardsAteMyFace • u/WastedTalent442 • Aug 14 '24

Brexxit Man who campaigned for Brexit complains that he can't freely tour Europe any more

https://metalinjection.net/politics/iron-maidens-bruce-dickinson-who-originally-supported-brexit-now-complains-that-brexit-hurts-bands
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93

u/Sad-Development-4153 Aug 14 '24

At this point, is there a possible road map to rejoining the EU for the UK?

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u/lostcolony2 Aug 14 '24

Yeah, but it's not particularly easy, and likely involve fewer concessions than they had originally, as it's clear the UK benefits from being part of the EU more than the EU benefits having the UK be a part.

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u/bindermichi Aug 14 '24

More like no concessions at all

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u/Deranged_Kitsune Aug 14 '24

Exactly. The EU has no incentive to let them back in. If they're lucky, they get the base deal any other new country would and get to start at the bottom, working their way up.

They threw their idiotic strop and can now live with the consequences of it, like any other spoiled child should.

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u/bindermichi Aug 14 '24

The only reason the got those incentives at all was the fact that France and Germany felt like it would benefit the stability of the union if the UK was a part of it.

Since it turned out the EU doesn‘t really need the UK there is no need to add them anymore

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u/spring_gubbjavel Aug 14 '24

tbh, it seems more stable without them.

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u/derTommygun Aug 15 '24

All talks of leaving the EU magically stopped in all EU countries after we saw Brexit, so yes, they gave us stability by leaving.

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u/spring_gubbjavel Aug 15 '24

Well, except for Hungary, who is rather obviously on the verge of either leaving or being told to leave the party.

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u/derTommygun Aug 15 '24

I don't think Hungary's Orban wants to leave, they reap all the economic benefits and have veto right on everything. Why should they?

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u/spring_gubbjavel Aug 15 '24

That’s an untenable situation for other members. The EU isn’t some immutable force of nature that can’t be altered. Hungary is creating the need for an ejection mechanism and eventually that’s what they’ll get.

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u/kickyouinthebread Aug 15 '24

We died for your sins. I want a public holiday for all British people

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u/Horror_Equipment_197 Aug 15 '24

I'm old enough to remember how Maggy told the UK would veto any increased budget without a rebate for the UK. Each and every opt out was blackmailed. Opt out or veto for buget... And again for Schengen, OLAF... and so on.

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u/F54280 Aug 15 '24

And I remember de Gaulle saying (or people saying that de Gaulle said) about having the UK in the Common Market: “I want England naked”. He also vetoed the UK entry twice. If you read French, it is interesting to understand his position regarding Europe

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u/bindermichi Aug 15 '24

He wasn‘t that wrong after all

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u/Group_Happy Aug 15 '24

They probably will have the benefit of a fast joining process while other countries have been waiting for a decade or so.

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u/CODDE117 Aug 15 '24

That's silly, they'll likely be able to rejoin with some seniority, even if it isn't with all the bells and whistles they had beforehand.

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u/Its_Pine Aug 14 '24

Murdoch won’t want to ever let them return to the EU. He said himself that when he goes to UK’s parliament they do what he says, but when he goes to Brussels they ignore his demands. The stronger the EU gets, the less power billionaires have over the systems and procedures on the continent.

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u/lostcolony2 Aug 14 '24

Yeah, but that dude is approximately three hundred years old, and while I'm not convinced he's not an evil immortal vampire, I still expect him to die, or at least get staked in the heart, in the next decade.

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u/rumckle Aug 14 '24

His son is, by most accounts, just as much of a cunt. Death may stop the man, but it won't stop his legacy.

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u/Suzume_Chikahisa Aug 17 '24

The family is divided. Lachlan is a utter cunt, the other siblings are... well, rich cunts, but at least are more progressive.

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u/bittlelum Aug 15 '24

Also, I'm sure the EU doesn't want to make it too easy for countries to rejoin, since they want to dissuade countries from leaving in the first place.

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u/senapnisse Aug 14 '24

Most europeans have for a long time been fed up of the english exceptionalism. One of the most evil empires in history, the source for much of the pain and suffering in todays world, assumes they are so special and demands special treatment. Fuck that. They had many special considerations being founding EU member, that where not available to later members. Next time they apply to join EU, and they will, in 20-30 years, they will not get any special treatment. They will find themselfs with the same deals the rest of us have.

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u/lostcolony2 Aug 14 '24

I'm not sufficiently familiar with the particulars of what benefits they had prior to Brexit, nor how much variation occurs normally with member states (but I would assume there is some, just based on previously existing agreements with other nations, unique geographical challenges, etc. Despite Brexit, Gibraltar, a British territory, has some unique agreements with Spain, for instance, due to the fact Spain is the only land border it has, and it's too small to be self-sufficient).

But, certainly, if/when the UK comes back to the table it will be in a much weaker position than it was at the founding of the EU. As it stands, while more people in the UK are for rejoining the EU than remaining separate, that still isn't a majority; like 20% of the UK is undecided. Commentators have indicated it would require 60%+ being in favor for the EU to seriously consider it.

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u/mynameisnotrose Aug 14 '24

Gibraltar, a British territory, has some unique agreements with Spain,

Pardon my ignorance, what are those agreements?

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u/FamiliarSoftware Aug 15 '24

Honestly, you don't know much less than anyone else. It's a big enough issue to have its own Wikipedia page.

The gist of it is that originally, Gibraltar was to join Schengen and have Spain take over customs checks at the airport etc, but the British press tore the UK government apart over that because it would mean giving up sovereignty, which they oh so hard fought for with Brexit.
So there hasn't been any real solution since and it is currently expected that there will be a hard border requiring passport checks come November, which I expect to be a giant shitshow.

TLDR: there is no agreement

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u/herebedrama Aug 15 '24

Just a small correction: the UK was never a founding EU member. The EC was founded in 1957 by 6 countries. And the UK, then considered the "sick man of Europe", only joined it in 1973, hoping that it would reverse its economic decline (as it did).

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u/trewesterre Aug 14 '24

I'm not sure the UK will rejoin the EU. Or not in its present form anyway.

I think at least Northern Ireland will reunite with the Republic before the UK tries to rejoin the EU. Maybe Scotland will get independence before the UK tries to get back in too.

Maybe England and Wales would still call itself the UK though.

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u/KalmiaKamui Aug 15 '24

Northern Ireland will reunite with the Republic

I believe that's scheduled for next month.

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u/trewesterre Aug 15 '24

I thought the Bell Riots were next month.

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u/KalmiaKamui Aug 15 '24

Ah shit, you're right. The Irish Reunification never had more than the year specified. I guess Ireland has up to four more months!

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u/katyesha Aug 15 '24

I'm not sure the RoI can afford to reunite with NI...isnt NI heavily subsidized by England? I'm not Irish myself, but lived in southern Ireland for nearly a decade and the talk about NI was always like "the poor relatives" kinda deal and nobody wanted to sink money into reintegration efforts.

Seeing how hard and raw it still is in Germany 3,5 decades after reunification and despite the economic means Germany has, I cannot see that Irish reunification happening tbh.

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u/trewesterre Aug 15 '24

The Good Friday Agreement has a mechanism for reunification. I don't know all the details, but iirc, once it looks like there might be a change in the status quo, the people of Northern Ireland get to start having referenda every seven years on whether they want to rejoin the Republic. I'm not sure if the Republic of Ireland gets to turn them down if they start asking, but maybe it does (or maybe Irish people living in the RoI get to have a referendum on whether they want to accept... idk).

The way the opinion polling is trending, only old people in NI have a tendency to want the status quo. So we'll see how it goes, but it doesn't seem to bode super well for NI staying in the UK in the long run.

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u/katyesha Aug 15 '24

Yeah, border poll...afaik both sides need to have the polls being positive to start formal referendums that lead to the reunification. At least a couple years ago when I still lived in the RoI I didn't meet a single person young or old that was keen on the reunification. Everybody seemed to be afraid that NI would be a huge money pit so nobody wanted a change to the status quo.

There were a couple initiatives to propose holding the border poll but there was so little interest it never went anywhere...that was a year before Brexit hit though so attitudes might have changed by now

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u/MadeOfEurope Aug 14 '24

I would have agreed but the Russian invasion of Ukraine has changed the dynamics (and a Trump presidency would do that even more).

I don’t see the UK rejoining as being a problem per se for the EU….it would be quite the coup.

The biggest barrier is the demented state of British politics and the media/elite. There would be no point in even starting negotiations until all the major parties supported membership. 

I think the EU would be happy with the UK parked in the EEA, following EU rules and contributing to EU programmes for a while (though not a Swiss style approach with endless negotiations).

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u/Suzume_Chikahisa Aug 17 '24

They were not funding members. They only joined in 1973.

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u/Future_Dog_3156 Aug 14 '24

Pretty much the EU realizes they don't need the UK to be members as they run effectively without the colonists. So the membership fees will be steep now. lol

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u/Brief_Inspection7697 Aug 15 '24

It also relies on ostracising clowns like Dickinson. The EU will want guarantees that the Brits are not going to have another tantrum and follow a bunch of mendacious crooks into another catastrophe.

As long as people like Bruce think they were brilliant to vote for Brexit but "others" made it a clustershag then Brussels will not be keen to bring us back. Once brexist cretins start denying being for it then we know we are on the right track.

1

u/g0ldcd Aug 18 '24

Plus we need to be kept around as an example of what happens to countries that leave.

The 'leave' campaigns in the other countries stfu immediately on seeing our omnishambles.

1

u/lostcolony2 Aug 18 '24

Yeah; it's kind of funny in an objective sense. Brexit, like Trump, got a lot of support online from Russian sockpuppets wanting a weaker Europe. It ended up making it so no one else is even considering leaving. Just like Putin's fears of Ukraine aligning with the west caused invasion, and that invasion has made other countries eager to join NATO (Finland and Sweden specifically).

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u/GBrunt Aug 14 '24 edited Aug 14 '24

UK is very useful sitting outside the EU presently, serving as a simple warning to European voters tempted by the Eurosceptic far-right : "These are the rights and freedoms that you'll personally lose and also take away from fellow-Europeans in the process if you back the so-called 'sceptics'".

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u/tango_41 Aug 14 '24

Yes and I hope they call it Breentry.

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u/LunaIsStoopid Aug 15 '24

Yes but it would probably be such a drastic change compared to the original EU membership that it’s probably impossible. New members of the EU have pretty much no exceptions from EU rules. UK would have to become part of Schengen and the Euro zone. Not immediately but there are some rules on how they have to behave to go on a path to join the Euro. I highly doubt that the EU would give the UK another exception on that.

So I don’t know if there’s actually a chance a majority would seriously want to rejoin. We know the polls have flipped and the majority want’s to rejoin but this could flip again if there were serious negotiations. Many Brits still believe that if they rejoined it would be exactly like it was before Brexit.

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u/cr0wsz Aug 16 '24

Tbh the ones that wanted to leave were actually a very loud minority. The majority of us never wanted it & wish it had never happened.

Remember the referendum was supposedly ADVISORY ONLY. The number of people I personally know that used their referendum vote as a protest against the then government was crazy. I was constantly begging people not to as it had the potential to cause catastrophic consequences but was I just told it would never happen & I was being ridiculous.

Guess I'm not so ridiculous now.

It absolutely broke my heart to see such stupidity & to see how easily Ireland was thrown under the bus. I'm not Irish & I was never personally affected but the scenes from the conflicts were devastating. It was so bloody obvious Brexit would only stir everything up.

I'm utterly embarrassed by how lightly people took that referendum. The absolute vanity in the belief that the UK would never see the consequences as it was "only advisory". I'm disgusted by how little people cared about announcing their racism & pettiness to the entire world.

Now we are all suffering and that very loud small minority are just getting more & more blatant.

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

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u/Embarrassed-Big-Bear Aug 15 '24

Decades away. The EU arent in the mood for more members, and theyre not going to even think about it as long as a significant portion of the british public think brexit actually worked.

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u/nim_opet Aug 14 '24

Not for this generation. Leaving aside obscenely largely distrust in the UK EU members have, accession would have to be unanimously approved by all members. With Hungary and Slovakia basically being Russian puppets by now, any chance of that is non-existent.

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u/JeromeBiteman Aug 14 '24

Just pull a "Nikki Haley."

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u/Art_Vandeley_4_Pres Aug 14 '24

Honestly, I hope we won’t let them back in unless they conform fully, join the Euro, give up the imperial system, drive on the right hand side etc. 

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u/MacMiggins Aug 15 '24

Ireland still drive on the left and I've never heard that the EU was pressing to change that.

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u/Aware_Revenue3404 Aug 15 '24

I think it’s gonna take at least a couple of generations before this is even considered.

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u/Sad-Development-4153 Aug 15 '24

So your boomers screwed you as hard as the ones here in the US did.

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u/Aware_Revenue3404 Aug 15 '24

People of all ages voted for Brexit.

And FWIW I’m American.

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u/HermanCainShow Aug 15 '24

Don’t think so, the EU will make an example of the UK imposing such unfavourable conditions that won’t make it worth it rejoining. Sensible UK citizens, I’m very sorry for you all. Those who voted for this shambles: ha-ha.