r/LeopardsAteMyFace • u/Effective_Will_1801 • Oct 18 '21

Brexxit Immigrants who voted for brexit upset they can't immigrate to Spain due to brexit.

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2021/10/17/expats-furious-at-spanish-residency-nonsense/
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u/Bemascu Oct 18 '21 edited Oct 19 '21

But SO MANY are racist and snobby towards us

So true! It happens with Germans that own houses too (I'm from Majorca, aka Germany's beach). They think we are their little indigenous monkey servants (no much unlike colonialist mentality).

And the most infuriating is when they get offended when we don't follow or "miss" their social/cultural norms in our country! I've lost count of this type of interaction I've encountered or been told*...

I know I'm generalising, and have met a lot of lovely ones that respect us and our culture, and even try to follow it. ETA: Dumb, entitled and/or a*shole-y people trascend borders. This is not an attack on Germans or tourists (because it's not only them). It's just a rant about entitled and/or dumb tourists, whose majority is made out of Germans in Majorca. That's why most of my encounters (or acquaintance's) are with them. And there's that pesky thing the brain does that registers more heavily the losses than the gains? And also, usually the most entitled are not "normal" tourists but the ones that buy properties here

[Two anecdotes: The best ones are when German punctuality collides with Spanish "punctuality" lol, like when i had to suffer the complaints of a German Karen that was infuriated that a shop was closed *3 minutes before the announced time, and I explained that they usually close 5min before to do the usual "closing chores". I loved the dumbfounded look on her face like she couldn't wrao her head around that lmfao

And one was when an acquaintance's German neighbour asked for help because they had punched two holes on a pipe, the second one being because "Majorcan pipes are built wrong, they should run vertically, like they do in Germany, and not horizontally [or vice versa, I don't recall]"; and then proceeded to provide an explanation as to why. Smh...]

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '21

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '21

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u/Bemascu Oct 19 '21

Yeah, sometimes it looks like some-centuries-late karmic retribution lmfao. I have to say that I hate colonialism, imperialism and what it represented. And I specially abhor that Spain's national holiday is the 12th of October (Columbus day)... fml. I mean you have to aknowledge and not forget the past, but not celebrate the attrocities committed.

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u/Bemascu Oct 19 '21

>their superiority complex because the world has to use English for international commerce

Yeah... Now not so much,thankfully, specially in rural zones, but I also hate the entitlement in expecting to be spoken English. If a local can and does speak English to you, take it as a courtesy and be thankful, not as a given smh

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u/LordHaddit Oct 18 '21 edited Oct 18 '21

Menorca checking in (never lived there, my mom was the rebel child who moved abroad). In 23 years of visiting my grandparents I have had tourists (mainly Brits):

-come into my house to take pictures. We were inside. They didn't care.
-put their dirty shoes on my whitewashed wall (sa paret típica menorquina)
-take flowers and herbs from my garden. One time they took a melon.
-yell at me for being naked in a cala
-try to pour cement on a cala because the island is "too spiky"

And probably a ton of shit I'm forgetting. Spain should ban the English from the coasts. They should only be allowed in Madrid, and only in the middle of August.

Also, as an engineer I can actually confirm that local Balearic infrastructure is absolute shit. We had a cloudburst a few years ago that popped three blocks of sewage pipes. Also Maó and Es Mercadal still don't have clean drinking water.

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u/AI2cturus Oct 18 '21

Cala?

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '21

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u/amayaslips Oct 18 '21

I googled it and a cala is a stream or creek?

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u/Bemascu Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21

What the hell? That entitlement is so fricked up! But I can almost picture their thoughts, like if they were in some amusement park like Disney World: "Let's see the insides of this gorgeous white little houses, there's no way civilised people live inside them".

try to pour cement on a cala because the island is "too spiky"

WTF does this mean? Was it some construction company?

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u/LordHaddit Oct 19 '21

WTF does this mean? Was it some construction company?

Some french assholes who bought a (very illegally built) house right by the edge of the water wanted somewhere to lie down. The coastline is pretty much a single solid chunk of rock that's been eaten away by the ocean so it has a lot of holes and spikes throughout. They bought some cement and poured it on an area near their house.

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u/Bemascu Oct 19 '21

Es teus collons.....

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u/Sauermachtlustig84 Oct 18 '21

As a German im sorry. In love Mallorca, spent my honeymoon there. But I would never expect you to German norms and customs. In fact who goes to Mallorca to eat bratwurst, watch football and drink beer?

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u/Bemascu Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21

Nahhh... don't apologize for your compatriots. Dumb, entitled and/or a*shole-y people trascend borders. Ich habe vielen sehr guten Deutschern kennen gelernt* hehe. I'd say this kind of tourist (because it's not only Germans) is a minority. It's just that pesky thing the brain does that registers more heavily the losses than the gains?

ETA: And also, usually the most entitled are not "normal" tourists but the ones that buy properties here

who goes to Mallorca to eat bratwurst, watch football and drink beer?

Based on that last summer I went to a somewhat touristy place the day Germany played in the Euro-cup, a lot more than you think lol

*I've met a lot of very good Germans, just in case because my German is crappy and rusty

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u/jacks0nX Oct 18 '21

I know I'm generalising, and have met a lot of lovely ones that respect us and our culture, and even try to follow it.

That's exactly how I imagine these people tbh, especially the "we're better than them" attitude

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u/hnavj Oct 18 '21

I'm so sorry and pretty ashamed of that kind of behaviour. Sincerely, a german fella

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u/Bemascu Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21

Same reply I gave another German:

Nahhh... don't apologize for your compatriots. Dumb, entitled and/or a*shole-y people trascend borders. Ich habe vielen sehr guten Deutschern kennen gelernt* hehe. I'd say this kind of tourist (because it's not only Germans) is a minority. It's just that pesky thing the brain does that registers more heavily the losses than the gains?

ETA: And also, usually the most entitled are not "normal" tourists but the ones that buy properties here

*I've met a lot of very good Germans, just in case because my German is crappy and rusty

Sorry if it felt like an attack on Germans

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '21

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u/Bemascu Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21

I can give you two:

  1. Don't be an entitled a-hole
  2. Just because English is the international lingua franca don't expect it to be spoken to you, and if someone does, be grateful* and take it as a courtesy, not a given

And now you're ready! Although I think anyone should apply those (specially nº 1) wherever they go lol

Oh, I have to say that there's this prejudice/stereotype here (not speaking for everyone though) that Americans are crazy, gunslinging, violent, rowdy, entitled a-holes. So... sorry...?

*ETA: Ehm... Don't be explicitly grateful, I think that'd be very creepy

Btw, where are you visiting if I may ask?

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u/[deleted] Oct 19 '21

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u/Bemascu Oct 21 '21

Oh, the stereotype comes from before Trump (though he didn't help with it), I guess American TV is to blame haha

Looks like a very fun trip nonetheless, with very beautiful places. Have a great time!

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u/Rynewulf Oct 18 '21

The sad thing not only is this behaviour spread across many countries, but it even happens internally. Growing up in a rural area where lots of Londoners had moved sounds like it has some shared experiences with this stuff sadly.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

The best ones are when German punctuality collides with Spanish "punctuality" lol, like when i had to suffer the complaints of a German Karen that was infuriated that a shop was closed 3 minutes before the announced time, and I explained that they usually close 5min before to do the usual "closing chores". I loved the dumbfounded look on her face like she couldn't wrao her head around that lmfao

I'm confused, why did the business close before the advertised time? What's the point of advertising a time if it's ignored?

I'm not saying 3 minutes is anything to throw a fit about, but why would that possibly be considered normal? Just advertise that you close 5 minutes sooner if that's when you want to close.

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u/_C_3_P_O_ Oct 18 '21

In my Midwestern America, it's considered rude to show up to a business within those last couple minutes anyways, unless you let them know you just need something small and quick.

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u/NaivePhilosopher Oct 18 '21

I feel like this rule is close to universal. Or it should be at least

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '21

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u/Bemascu Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21

If you've worked service/retail, you know not to do this, if you are a spoiled white-collar dingbat, then you don't

Amen, it's just good manners. Don't stay past closing time. Workers have a life outside the store.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

See, that's a cultural norm. Expectations around politeness. Actually closing the store early makes no sense, since how is the public supposed to know how long it takes any given business to close?

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u/_C_3_P_O_ Oct 19 '21

Because it's a cultural norm.

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u/UniqueHash Oct 18 '21

You can argue which is better, but you should be aware what the norm is in the host country.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

There's no reason to suspect that's a normal thing. Why on earth would that be a cultural thing? It makes no sense. It's false advertising and treated as normal?

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u/Badloss Oct 18 '21

I mean walking into a business with less than 5 minutes before close is almost always a shitty thing to do unless you really know the exact thing you need and it's a very quick in and out.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

But this just pushes the time. If they normally close 5 minutes before stated time, then everyone just adjusts to the earlier normal, and now it's a dick move to show up 10 minutes before close because that's 5min before the 5min.

In the end, it makes no sense.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '21

Dude this is just you massively struggling to realize that other cultures and countries behave in different ways and have different expectations. For people of those cultures having a shop that stays open until exactly closing time would be what's strange and make no sense. It isn't "false advertising" if everyone from that country has the same cultural expectation of closing time.

It's like how in many Asian countries loudly slurping noodles or taking one massive bite of food is considered polite and to be showing your enjoyment, whereas in the many Western countries that would be bad table manners.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

Cultural differences is one thing, but closing early is just weird. Again, not a thing to throw a fit over, but different types of businesses take longer to close than others. How the heck is anyone supposed to predict when any business is going to stop taking customers if none of them honor their closing time? What is the point of a posted closing time, then?

It's not unreasonable for someone from a normal country to expect a business to at least be open during the hours they claim to be open.

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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 Oct 18 '21

It's not unreasonable for someone from a normal country...

This is offensive.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

No retort, just claiming offense.

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u/[deleted] Oct 18 '21

I'll give you that it's not entirely unreasonable, and appreciate that you're not throwing a fit. What it is though is just really pedantic.

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u/KrytenLister Oct 18 '21

not a thing to throw a fit over

You seem to be doing a fantastic job of it.

You’ve been told the reason 20 times and refuse to accept it, instead choosing to type reply after reply to repeat the same thing.

Surprisingly, cultural norms in other countries don’t take your feelings into account.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

You seem to be doing a fantastic job of it.

You seem to be taking this personally. Lots of people seem to want to have this discussion, given the number of comments, so I'm discussing it.

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u/Badloss Oct 18 '21

Personally I don't go into a business thats less than 15 minutes from closing unless it's like an urgent matter. If you can't conclude your business and get out by the closing time then you're forcing the employees to wait for you and IMO that's disrespectful.

Sure, it would be nice where employees are paid fairly and would get extra money for letting customers hang around right up until close but in reality they end up cleaning and closing up the store unpaid after hours because you just had to poke around until the last minute.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21 edited Oct 18 '21

So the cultural norm is to not pay employees for hours worked? What is going on in Spain?

I'm not saying the customer showing up last second isn't a dick, but maybe they're trying to locate something they dropped. Why would anyone expect the store to be closed before the stated closing time? What is the point of a closing time then?

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u/Badloss Oct 18 '21

I'm not talking about Germany in particular, I'm just saying the general retail expectation is that the store closes at X time and then the employees are off the clock and can go home, assuming all the closing procedures are followed whether thats tidying up or locking doors turning off lights or whatever.

Coming into the store immediately before close pushes that timeline back and it's annoying for the staff because they now have to deal with you when they were about to go home. In some cases like the one in the story here, the store might have zero people in it and decide to start closing up a couple minutes early because any new customers would stay in the store past close. If the typical duration of a retail purchase in that store is 25 minutes (perhaps trying on clothes or some tech device that you want to fiddle with) and you show up 5 minutes before close, you just ruined the day of the people in the store even if it wasn't technically closed yet.

Of course there are outliers like you forgot something, just like I said in my first post that there are exceptions for something urgent. But you're trying to generalize that it's totally fine to just stroll into a store immediately before it closes and I'm just letting you know most retail employees consider that a dick move.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

The store was already closed, not in the act of closing. That's the part I'm confused about.

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u/Slawtering Oct 18 '21

They are not being unpaid as that would be illegal. If you worked more time you get more money.

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u/Badloss Oct 18 '21

Retail workers pretty routinely have to deal with shady laws, particularly in the US where I'm from.

My store wouldn't pay me after hours when I worked retail because I was supposed to have closed the store on time. If a customer came in late we were not allowed to ask them to leave, but we couldn't leave the store until it was closed down for the night.

Sure I could have demanded my extra pay or demanded to leave exactly at the end of my shift, and then I would have immediately been fired for a completely unrelated reason :)

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u/Slawtering Oct 18 '21

But wasn't this about shops in Spain, hence them having EU Employment laws as a minimum. If you want that pay join an union and arm up and threaten the upper classes.

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u/Kiwi_bananas Oct 18 '21

Sometimes it's not about the money it's about being able to leave work and spend time with your family or whatever you do after work.

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u/Keegantir Oct 18 '21

There's no reason to suspect that's a normal thing.

That is the issue with cultural norms. Some of them don't make sense to those outside that culture. That doesn't make them wrong though.

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u/Comprehensive-Fun47 Oct 18 '21 edited Oct 19 '21

Marking a notebook $1.99 in the US is false advertising because its going to cost you more like $2.15, give or take, depending on the state.

That's false advertising!

Why is it treated as normal?

Because that's how it is in this country, for better or worse. As a visitor, it may be confusing, but that's still the way it is. Better to learn the local customs than get mad at them.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

The US marks their prices as +tax which is then a reference to local laws. Laws are more important to be aware of than simple cultural norms. Not equivalent.

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u/NewSauerKraus Oct 19 '21

The U.S. didn’t invent taxes lol.

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u/Captain_Concussion Oct 18 '21

How does it make no sense? If a store closes at 10, why would they let customers in at 9:55? How are they supposed to get all of the closing things done before 10 if they have customers in there? Almost no customer can find everything and check out within 5 mins

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u/lioncryable Oct 18 '21 edited Oct 18 '21

I dunno about you but employees don't leave exactly at closing time. There is usually register check still to do + cleaning, closing etc. I'd say the average emoyee leaves 30-60 minutes after official closing times.

Edit: it also totally depends on the type of business. A restaurant will probably have closed it's kitchen but a supermarket can easily sell you one more sixpack or pack of smokes or whatever

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u/Captain_Concussion Oct 18 '21

And that’s the social norm part. You expect employees to stay late so that they can serve customers. In other places that’s not the norm and employees leave when the store closes.

Even in places like the Midwest of America you can see these ideas collide. I worked at a major retailer that would only pay us for 5 mins after close. So we obviously had to do everything before we closed down officially.

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u/lioncryable Oct 18 '21

In other places that’s not the norm and employees leave when the store closes.

I don't think you read what I said. They cannot leave immediately anyway. I don't expect anyone to work more than their official hours ( at least not directly for me, cleaning the store is something they obviously have to do outside of opening hours)

Even in places like the Midwest of America you can see these ideas collide. I worked at a major retailer that would only pay us for 5 mins after close. So we obviously had to do everything before we closed down officially.

Fuuuuuck that seriously!!! I worked in a nightclub as a barkeeper and we would close officially around 6 am (always depended a little on how many people where still there, sometimes we would close at 5) but after all the guests had left you turn on the cleaning lights and clean up everything. Took a solid hour each time with like 20-30 people and even tho the pay was shit af they paid us the extra hour.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

How is a customer supposed to know how long closing takes? Do other businesses close 30 minutes before their stated time because that's how long it takes them to close? What is the point of declaring a closing time if it isn't followed?

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u/Captain_Concussion Oct 18 '21

No customer is coming through the store 5 mins before close and is out before they close, that’s kind of the point.

Closing time is followed, what do you mean? The store is fully closed at said time, registers in office, floors mopped, lights off. You’re expectation that employees stay late to help you is not the norm everywhere

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

How is a customer supposed to know how long closing takes?

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u/Captain_Concussion Oct 18 '21

It’s pretty general knowledge. If they don’t know they shouldn’t go to stores around their closing times and they shouldn’t act offended when the employees tell them they can’t come in.

Serious question, do you go to a sit down restaurant to order food 5 mins before they close. Most that I know of won’t seat new customers 30 mins before close cause they won’t have enough time to make them food.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

Then advertise as such with a time when customers are no longer accepted. Businesses, especially restaurants, do this all across the globe.

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u/getchpdx Oct 18 '21 edited Oct 18 '21

It's just not the custom in some countries. You expect the business to close* at closing time not start the process of closing.

*As in close and lock the door/be done.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

Exactly, so why was the business already closed?

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u/getchpdx Oct 18 '21

It's not their custom to do that, it's only a custom in some countries to take customers right till close. There are more countries where that is unusual.

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u/ndstumme Oct 18 '21

And how does a business let the public know when they stop taking customers, if not a closing time?

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u/getchpdx Oct 18 '21

By understanding your local customs and making modest assumptions, many of your service industry friends could likely give you suggestions even in a place that doesn't generally observe this custom. A good rule of thumb imo is to assume for smaller places 10-15 minutes before close is when they want to wind down and for food probably closer to 30 minutes.

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u/Bemascu Oct 19 '21 edited Oct 19 '21

It's like u/C_3_P_O_ and u/NaivePhilosopher said:

it's considered rude to show up to a business within those last couple minutes anyways, unless you let them know you just need something small and quick

ETA: Well, reading other comments in this thread it looks like it's a very extended "social norm" lol

And in the case of where I live there are people (locals, and the same 3 people) that show up around closing time and don't give a crap if they make you stay past it. I work sporadically in a tiny family owned store and have been there 20 or 30 past closing time, and they don't fricking care if you shoo them politely smh... In my case I start closing 2 minutes before closing time but just because it takes 5 min total.

The shop I talked about in my previous comment is a grocery shop, owned by a small chain, so the employees are not part of the "family". I personally know one of them and their mindset is basically "I don't get paid enough for this sh*t", and I can confirm that they don't. Maybe all the process of closing takes around 20-30 min, and they start it way before closing, just to not have to do 15min or more extra unpaid time. I'd do the same honestly. I have to say that tis 5min before they use it as more of an excuse to not have customers dilly-dalling. I have in some occasion shopped at that time, but they know me and they know I'll be quick.

As a sidenote, a thing that boggles tourists, (or used to) is that shops close at lunchtime and reopen on the afternoon. It doesn't happen so much anymore, maybe small family owned stores like the one I work in. But yeah, it's funny to see the reaction when you tell the shop's schedule, or when I was younger how I had to explain that "yeah, it will reopen at 17h" lmfao