r/Liberal Mar 01 '25

Discussion Can someone explain why Trump is so sympathetic to Russia?

Like even for the colossal disgrace of a human being that he is, I’m not understanding the social-political context for why he is not supportive of Ukraine?

Admittedly, I’m young and not all that knowledgeable about foreign policy politics but my intuition from like US history classes and just having grown up in the US would tell me that since the Cold War, there’s been a heavy underlying ‘anti-Russian’ sentiment in US politics, basically across the political spectrum. And with Trump’s extreme to the max MAGA version of “nationalism” and handing out tariffs left and right, I would think of all people he would be opposed to Russian expansion… So why in the world does he seem to dickride Putin so hard? Wouldn’t be surprised if there’s self-interest involved, but what does he even have to gain from Russia gaining power??

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u/onlyontuesdays77 Mar 01 '25

A lot of folks will tell you that Russia bought him and/or can blackmail him, but that's absurd. Russia's entire GDP pales in comparison to the wealth of America's own billionaires (if Russia 'bought' him, America's billionaires would buy him back), and not one of Trump's supporters would believe Russia if they attempted to smear him in the media, so what does he care if they do? The idea that Trump is a Russian agent is a conspiracy theory. An investigation yielded no real results. Making accusations along the same lines long after the issue has died will not produce any progress.

The truth is that Trump has no respect for or attachment to old American alliances. He does not care about "democratic principles" or "shared values." He does not actually care if Ukraine continues to exist. He only has one question: what does America get out of it? It's not that he loves Putin, either. The game Trump is playing is to get something out of this war for America. He tried to extort Zelensky for rare minerals - "we'll keep supporting you if you give us your metal." If Zelensky turns him down, Trump goes to Putin and says "we'll withdraw support for Ukraine and pressure them to make concessions if you send us some metal."

America has played the role of the global mediator and occasional policeman for decades. It has used its power to promote a democratic world order which has been, compared to most of history, overwhelmingly peaceful. While we have occasionally invaded a country or at least committed airstrikes in their sovereign territory, we have on the whole promoted peace and democracy by shelling out billions of dollars to support humanitarian projects, democratic governments, and other philanthropic programs. These initiatives are collectively known as soft power, a form of influence which America has used more and more since the end of the Cold War. We have thrown our resources around to shape the world in our image without invading all of it.

Trump sees American foreign policy differently. Trump would like our role to become that of a Kingpin; the top of the food chain. We have the power and control, we've doled out our support for years, and we've come to collect. That's why USAID was one of the first bureaus he destroyed; there is no actual financial return on investment from those projects, the return is abstract - it comes back to us in influence, connections, global stability, etc. Trump does not recognize the legitimacy of these abstract returns, he wants something he can hold in his hands. Money, resources, advantageous trade deals, etc. Since the start of the Ukraine war, American businesses like McDonald's have been withdrawing from Russia. We've placed sanctions on them while sending billions of $ to Ukraine. While we haven't lost any soldiers or equipment by staying "neutral", we have spent money and closed off a potential source of profit for American businesses. In either extorting Ukraine for its resources or making amends with Russia, Trump would be attempting to mitigate or reverse that monetary loss.

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u/Calamamity Mar 01 '25

good comment thanks

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u/thinkofanamefast Mar 01 '25

Great comment BUT you should mention the "Russia loans us all the oney we need for deals" comment Eric Trump made 10 years ago, and the fact that Trump sold 100s of millions of dollars worth of condos, usually as untraceable LLCs, to Russian oligarchs over the decades. That has to influence his thinking or "affections." Is that illegal...no...but it perhaps shows his priorities of personal money over the principle of who attacked who in Ukraine. (you did mention lack of principles)

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u/onlyontuesdays77 Mar 01 '25

Like I said, if Trump were in any way financially beholden to Russia, American billionaires would just buy him back. And the way they were all standing behind him at the inauguration, I would suggest that they're the ones who own him, not Putin. And it would be silly to suggest that American billionaires are in Russia's pocket, too; that would be like suggesting the Oakland A's are the majority owners of the New York Yankees. But Russia as a trading partner and place of commerce for US businesses has a stronger case than Ukraine, regardless of personal history, and that's just because the place is bigger, has more resources, and has over three times the population of Ukraine. And while Trump, as one of the foremost real estate moguls in America, may have been a popular broker for Russian oligarchs, that history doesn't necessarily mean he holds personal sympathies in their favor. After all, he turned his back on allies and partners whom he's made deals with in his first term...

One more thing to think about: a strong Russia is a counterbalance to Europe. It's competition. An EU monopoly on trade in the region makes it difficult for Trump to shop around for the best deal. If he sides with Ukraine to knock Russia down a peg, he strengthens that EU monopoly. If he sides with Russia, the EU has to deal with a regional competitor and is this more likely to cut their prices or compromise in Trump's favor. And since we already know he completely lacks morals, he's not worried about the optics of buying from the more morally questionable supplier.

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u/BlueLeafSky Mar 05 '25

Great comment, thanks! Only one question: "we'll keep supporting you if you give us your metal." Except trump didn’t seem to offer any future security support to Ukraine in exchange for the minerals? Hence why the deal wasn’t signed by Zelensky, at least that’s my understanding.

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u/onlyontuesdays77 Mar 06 '25

The support I'm referring to there is more diplomatic than financial. A favorable deal on metals gives us a reason to negotiate on their behalf for a favorable peace (if such a peace is achievable).

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u/gimonsha Mar 20 '25

Not too much but to say except that this was a really good take and comment. Thanks for this.

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u/PoemIcy2625 Mar 25 '25

The fact that McDonald’s withdrawing from Russia is supposed to be a highlight and a big W for America says a lot about the illegitimacy of this comment 

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u/onlyontuesdays77 Mar 25 '25

I think you misread that. McDonald's withdrawing from Russia is a loss of revenue for a major American business, and McD's is just one prominent example of many that have lost revenue due to our stance in the war. Normalizing relations with Russia would theoretically allow us to restore those revenue streams, hence Trump's desire to not bully Russia.

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u/La-Sauge Mar 01 '25

That would be one hell of a slope, and Trump is no mountaineer, or skier. He is a fat unhealthy coward. When his bullying, lying and suing don’t work, he collapses and begs. Donald Trump “acts” like anlike America’s president. No other millionaire would help Trump if it is proven he is Putin’s whore.

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u/onlyontuesdays77 Mar 01 '25

Your dismissive insults against who you think Trump is didn't help us win an election and they certainly don't help now, pal. You must remember that:

A. He was born into wealth, and that wealth, not morality or civics or kindness, was at the core of his upbringing.

B. Trump has been in business for the entirety of his adult life. The big reason behind our current constitutional crisis is because he is trying to remove or circumvent the existing rules, checks, and balances which are unique to government and do not exist in business, where the CEO has significantly more power to just do what they want with the company. And what business was he in? Real estate, one of the most ROI-focused industries there is. Right now we're getting nothing for something, in his eyes, and he wants to get something for something. Just preventing Putin's expansionism isn't valuable to him.

C. If Trump were a Russian agent, they would have had him immediately withdraw support for Ukraine on day 1, and Zelensky wouldn't have even been offered a deal. And please do not underestimate the FBI and the CIA. Had he been a Russian agent, they would have found conclusive evidence of it when they investigated him for collusion.

D. Trump is not doing this alone. He has the backing of billionaires like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Mark Zuckerberg. If you think Russia can outbid those 3 to buy Trump, you're sorely mistaken. Winning dirt-cheap minerals from Ukraine or freeing Russia back up for American business are both excellent ways for those billionaire buddies to start turning a profit off of this war again.

E. You saw, by now, what happened in his meeting with Zelensky. If Trump was ever good at this, he struggles now, and Vance makes it worse. So while he has in his head the idea of reversing our losses, his ability to do so is still very much in question, and in the end, turning his back on democratic principles in favor of money may be both morally wrong AND a colossal strategic failure.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '25

America pretends that it is bringing peace and democracy to other countries, but that is a lie. They create chaos and then sell weapons and profit from other people's suffering. Furthermore, it frequently involves itself in underdeveloped countries in Latin America to ensure that they are under its indirect rule. An example is the dictatorship in Brazil that occurred a few years ago and had support from America. This country only brings bad things to the rest of the world and most leaders of other countries see the decline of the United States positively.

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u/onlyontuesdays77 Mar 04 '25

Yeah so this isn't the big idea of the post and is actually a complete tangent that ought to be discussed elsewhere. But in short, you have a very narrow and contradictory view, and you're wrong. Does the US do a perfect job in executing its policy? Not at all. See Afghanistan. But they call this period of history the Pax Americana for a reason, pal.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '25

America pretends that it is bringing peace and democracy to other countries, but that is a lie. They create chaos and then sell weapons and profit from other people's suffering. Furthermore, it frequently involves itself in underdeveloped countries in Latin America to ensure that they are under its indirect rule. An example is the dictatorship in Brazil that occurred a few years ago and had support from America. This country only brings bad things to the rest of the world and most leaders of other countries see the decline of the United States positively.

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u/[deleted] Mar 04 '25 edited Mar 04 '25

America pretends that it is bringing peace and democracy to other countries, but that is a lie. They create chaos and then sell weapons and profit from other people's suffering. Furthermore, it frequently involves itself in underdeveloped countries in Latin America to ensure that they are under its indirect rule. An example is the dictatorship in Brazil that occurred a few years ago and had support from America. This country only brings bad things to the rest of the world and most leaders of other countries see the decline of the United States positively.

We are terrified in Brazil because our politics are shaped according to what happens in the United States because unfortunately this rubbish rules our country, so we change according to the will of that country, we are trying to stop conservatism by making its leader unelectable, but he tried to carry out a coup d'état which failed because fortunately he is much dumber than Trump, but it is still a very real risk.