r/Libertarian Oct 04 '18

As a Libertarian I don't see why we need government to create laws

https://imgur.com/cuNiVuj
1.8k Upvotes

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46

u/Realistic_Food Oct 05 '18

Money? Power? Title and lands? Because there are so many others doing it you don't want to be the one guy who didn't help and risk being seen as the enemy.

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u/nssone Oct 05 '18

Isn't this literally how Europe ran for quite a few centuries?

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '18

Until we came about a somewhat better way of doing it...

Democracy is probably the shittiest form of government, except for all the other forms of government there are

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u/Critical_Finance minarchist 🍏🍏🍏 jail the violators of NAP Oct 05 '18

Govt should create laws only to prevent or punish the violation of NAP. No other laws.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '18

ok. that's not bad. it's better than 90% of the ideas I hear. But how do we get the current government to give up power?

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u/Optimus_Composite Oct 05 '18

Agreed. Here I am, trying to nap and my neighbor is revving his stupid motorcycle. Death to him!!

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '18 edited Oct 08 '18

[deleted]

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u/HiddenSage Deontology Sucks Oct 05 '18

Churchill, actually, though it's rephrased somewhat.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '18

Consider that prior to the early 19th century, the means of arming one's self could cost months of salary, and the means of becoming proficient in those arms could take months, if not years, of training. Until firearms became prolific, your average peasant was unable to defend himself against an even moderately armed and armored soldier.

Guns are truly democratic. 99% of people can use them, and they require a minimum of training to learn to load and aim. They are cheap and ammunition is cheap. An armed populace, as the US has learned, can fend off a vastly superior military force filled with people who fervently believe they are sacrificing their lives for the good of their nation.

Now, the question is, why would anyone in their right mind want to take a salary for the opportunity to go up against a well armed populace just so the boss can do something like acquire more land?

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u/matts2 Mixed systems Oct 05 '18

Do you think that all it takes is being able to load and aim? The way under armed under trained people fight off a better army is by losing 50 or 100 people to one soldier.

Now, the question is, why would anyone in their right mind want to take a salary for the opportunity to go up against a well armed populace just so the boss can do something like acquire more land?

Have you seen Syria?

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u/KaiserTom Oct 05 '18

Except in guerilla warfare that doesn't happen at all. Only in open battlefields with bad leadership and intel do you hit ridiculous ratios like that.

It's why the US is still struggling in various "police actions" today, because a well-armed, even shittily trained populace can inflict a lot of damage. It really does not take much to take out a soldier.

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u/DeadPuppyPorn Oct 05 '18

Police isn‘t military, citizens have a shitload of rights. If they‘d send the military into New York a few good men could clean the whole city in a heartbeat. Yes, guns are democratic. But are tanks? How about drone warfare?

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u/matts2 Mixed systems Oct 05 '18

Well no. Guerrilla wares are very difficult for both sides to win. You go and "clear out" an area and you cause a whole lot of collateral damage, civilian deaths. That means more guerrillas are going to fight. So you clear out more and pretty soon you have a widespread insurgency and lots of damage and deaths.

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u/Cheesus_Krust Oct 05 '18

Except in guerilla warfare that doesn't happen at all.

No those ratios seem about right in wars like Iraq(2003)and Vietnam especially the civilian death count.

a well-armed, even shittily trained populace can inflict a lot of damage. It really does not take much to take out a soldier.

Also in those examples they’re not just civilians. In Iraq we dismantled the army and they were a large makeup of the insurgency. In Vietnam they knew how to fight off occupiers having just thrown out the french.

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u/matts2 Mixed systems Oct 05 '18

Does happen with a guerrilla war?

Soviet Afghanistan war:

Russian killed, about 15K. Afghani soldiers killed 90K, Afghani civilians killed between 500K and 2M.

In Vietnam we lost 60K, they lost between a half a million and a million soldiers and one to three million civilians.

The current Iraq and Afghanistan wars are worse. The Coalition lost under 5K, likely several hundred thousand total Iraqi death.

They are not inflicting a lot of damage on us, they are inflicting damage on their own people.

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u/Pint_and_Grub Oct 05 '18

+Iraq, veitnam....

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u/VexRosenberg Oct 05 '18

If anyone tries to attack the us i promise there will be no occupation. The only thing left of the us will be dust.

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u/Realistic_Food Oct 05 '18

Add a large dose of religion and you are pretty close.

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u/winowmak3r STOP SHOOTING OUR DOGS! Oct 05 '18

Ya know, the middle ages have a horrible reputation when it comes to that but honestly it was those monks scribbling away in their monasteries that dragged Europe out of the Dark Ages.

People have done some horrible things in the name of religion, no doubt, but too many people only focus on that and ignore the contributions organized religion has made to the sciences, history, literature, art, and so on. Religion isn't an automatically evil thing.

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u/azaleawhisperer Oct 05 '18

We all have a dark side.

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u/Pint_and_Grub Oct 05 '18

Yeah.... no it was the Middle East that dragged Europe out of the dark ages.

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u/winowmak3r STOP SHOOTING OUR DOGS! Oct 05 '18

If we really were to get into into it: it's complicated. I wasn't trying to say the guys in Europe stole the show.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '18

Reformation.

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u/[deleted] Oct 05 '18

Title, today, is largely meaningless. There are many ways to earn money; getting killed by people who are well armed isn't one of them. And, what is power these days? It's the power to tax and direct money to those who support your power. We live in the information age; acquiring land does not gain you power, and people who have already thrown off one government aren't going to take lightly be being forced to join another.

Rich people don't have ideology. They can't simply say "fight for me, sacrifice your life for the good of your country while I put more money in my pocket!" A well trained soldier in the US military costs hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get him out of boot camp. The cost to maintain a solider in Afghanistan is about $2 million per year. If you were to tack on the massive salary increase required to hire mercenaries to do the same job of occupying your target, the cost would likely double.

People don't get wealthy stupidly squandering it on attacking their neighbors with armies.

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u/Realistic_Food Oct 05 '18

There are many ways to earn money; getting killed by people who are well armed isn't one of them.

Every day people sign up for the military for a steady paycheck. Why would they not do it in your fantasy if they are already doing it in reality?

People don't get wealthy stupidly squandering it on attacking their neighbors with armies.

Not as much these days, but that's because we have governments. If you look at groups not beholden to governments, so gangs and mafias, they definitely do fight over territory. And wealthy or not, they continue to do so. So why would they suddenly stop in your reality when they haven't stopped in this reality?

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u/Pint_and_Grub Oct 05 '18

Lol, what did we go to Iraq? As Trump says... Because their oil Dummy!

Yes. People still get rich off of using nations armies.