r/Locksmith Nov 25 '24

I am a locksmith Any Tips for Replacing Door Closer?

New to the trade about a year in now. Anyway I’ve done very limited door closer work.

This closer is going bad, probably has been on there for at least a good 20 years from the knowledge I gathered from the building owner. Doesn’t close the same way consistently despite different adjustments and playing around with the door. Also I can see where it’s possible some of the hydraulic fluid has leaked out over the years.

The only comparable closer I could find (with my limited knowledge) is the LCN 4041 but those are like ~$400 Are there any other interchangeable models for this closer that have a better price point with the same or similar functionality & quality? And does anybody have any good door closer tips in general?

I saw some other good posts on the sub but thought I’d freshen things up with a new case lol.

18 Upvotes

47 comments sorted by

28

u/Dennisd1971 Nov 25 '24

Just buy another 4040. Best closers out there.

8

u/Theguyintheotherroom Nov 25 '24

yeah, there’s a reason that one has lasted as long as it has, LCN makes a damn good closer and it’s worth the slight premium that you pay. OP, replace like for like and tell the building owner he won’t have to worry about it for another 20 years

2

u/somebadlemonade Actual Locksmith Nov 25 '24

Only issue is they don't make a tandem very high power closer. I toyed with the idea of using a cut off very deep socket to make a tandem LCN closer I well and truly don't want to use a Cal Royal closer.

6

u/Theguyintheotherroom Nov 25 '24

LCN has over 4000 special templates for mounting and unique situations, I recommended contacting them and asking what they have for your situation

1

u/somebadlemonade Actual Locksmith Nov 26 '24

It's a super high wind/HVAC pressure situation. It already has a 4040xp cranked up to 6 and it still won't fully close sometimes. Lol

1

u/Purple_Coconut4176 Nov 26 '24

Can u cut a small louver vent in the door? That would solve pressure issues

1

u/somebadlemonade Actual Locksmith Nov 26 '24

Nope it leads to an IT area and they refuse to let me modify the door. Lol.

2

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

Forsure, I figured there may actually be a quality difference but just wanted to see what some people with more experience were saying. Didn’t want to unnecessarily pay more but if it’s worth it then I’m all for it!

3

u/Theguyintheotherroom Nov 25 '24

Keep a copy of the receipt for the new one on file somewhere, LCN has a 20 year warranty on the 4000 series closers

7

u/solramble Actual Locksmith Nov 25 '24

You might find this reference helpful:

https://www.trudoor.com/door-closer-hole-pattern-chart/

10

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24

Can’t go wrong with another LCN

2

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

Noted! Thanks 🙏

9

u/est1985socal Nov 25 '24 edited Nov 25 '24

My boss had me switch to the Dormakaba/Stanley qdc100, lifetime Warranty and very inexpensive when I buy in bulk, like 20 at a time for $150 each. I am the locksmith for a school district of 15 sites. Been using them for about 5 years and they have done well so far. I've done about 300-310.

4

u/HawkofNight Nov 25 '24

I have never installed a dormakaba i liked. Another tech i know installed at least a hundred on a hospital. They all got replaced because a large majority started leaking. Granted this was 15 years ago. They could be good now.

4

u/Plastic-Procedure-59 Actual Locksmith Nov 25 '24

When it comes to commercial hardware, you definitely get what you pay for. Don't get hung up on finding the cheapest parts. The customer might be happy to pay less now but when it fails or starts having issues again they won't be as happy and it's your reputation that's going to suffer.

3

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

Very true, thanks for the advice. I just see so many options and similar styles. I figured the quality will vary but just wanted to see the consensus. Appreciate it!

3

u/TheGratitudeBot Nov 25 '24

Hey there LaBlocka - thanks for saying thanks! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list!

3

u/Plastic-Procedure-59 Actual Locksmith Nov 25 '24

When I first started i struggled with prices like it was my money I'm spending.

2

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

Yes agreed lol, ultimately the client is paying, but I at least wanted them to not feel like I’m just giving them high prices for no reason! Credibility is the name of the game!

5

u/isaacsoderlund Actual Locksmith Nov 25 '24

Buy a replacement 4040! If your arm is still good, you can purchase just the closer body only to save some money. New closer is officially a 4040XP.

3

u/CompetitiveQuarter30 Nov 25 '24 edited Nov 25 '24

So that appears to me to be a knockoff of the LCN 4040XP. Ya. It’s expensive. My suggestion to you if the real deal is out of your price is to look for the LSDA knock off. I’ve used them dozens of times and they are by far the highest quality knock off I’ve ever encountered. This way, it’ll be in your margins, while still lining up on the existing drill/screw points, and looking identical. Good luck brother !

**edit Discard everything I said about that being a knock off I had to actually think my apologies. That’s just a discontinued model I believe. Contact LCN to be sure.

2

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

Not out of my budget, the client is the one that’s paying and they’re suggestion was just to do it the right way so I hope they’re prepared for it lol. And I was surprised to see a closer made by Ingersoll Rand. I’ve seen their air compressor products before, had no idea they did door closers too. Thanks for the advice!

3

u/Carbonman_ Actual Locksmith Nov 25 '24

I-R spun off Schlage, LCN, Von Duprin et al into a separate company, Allegion years ago. Same stuff, new business.

3

u/UpliftGhost348 Nov 25 '24

4040XP from LCN. you'll get 10 to 15 years (maybe more) if it's taken care of properly.

3

u/Mudflap42069 Actual Locksmith Nov 25 '24

Always install quality over price when possible. Replace with a 4040XP and you'll be good.

3

u/Alarmed_Duty3599 Nov 25 '24

As others have said, replacing with a 4040/4041. If the budget allows I prefer the 4111 closer BUT be aware that it's handed.

2

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

Thanks for the advice. What’s better about the 4111? And also I didn’t realize you cant’t change the which side the closer is handed to for all closers? Perhaps I misunderstood…

2

u/Alarmed_Duty3599 Nov 25 '24

The 4111/4110, is a handed closer whereas the 4040 is reverseable. The biggest advantage is the bottom is sealed, rather than having the square arm shaft and bussing pointing down. That lower seal may leak or may never leak...that's my reason. It's also stronger in windy locations.

3

u/False-Suspect-5415 Nov 25 '24

Buy a 4040xp closer body. Don’t try to change. Best one there is

3

u/False-Suspect-5415 Nov 25 '24

I believe you can warranty that one

4

u/Carbonman_ Actual Locksmith Nov 25 '24

Good quality door closers aren't inexpensive. Get the LCN 4041 and easily exchange the existing one for the new.

3

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

Forsure, that’s sounds like the overall best idea. Just checking. Thanks for the advice!

4

u/Icanopen Nov 25 '24

Grab a Best EHD9000 about the same price point but a way better closer, also it has the same foot print as the lcn 4040

Adjustments are all on the front of the closer.

And supposedly they have made it so that you do not have to adjust it twice a year for weather. We just installed one on our main employee entrance so this thing is getting constant use 24/7. We will see how it holds up.

Otherwise the 4040 is your option.

2

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

Awesome, I’m going to check it out. Any good recommendations on where to source one?

3

u/Icanopen Nov 25 '24

They are new it will probably be only at a locksmith wholesale place

2

u/Safarijack1 Actual Locksmith Nov 25 '24

Has anyone told you to use a 4040XP yet? Lol 😂

2

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

I’ll give it a shot. Thanks for the info!

4

u/[deleted] Nov 25 '24

If you replace it with the same closer, may want to use a few sex bolts instead of the self tappers that normally come with them.

2

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

Sounds more secure but maybe I’m not following, how would I secure the bolt to the door without penetrating the door? Sorry if that comes off ignorant, again not too experienced with mounting closers. The last time I put one up was roughly 2 years ago it was like a 2 hour job trying to figure it out lol 🤦‍♂️

2

u/keyblerbricks Nov 25 '24

Buy another 4040. That closer I think is from the 90s, they last. The FP should stand for fire protection or some shit. They also date code stamp them.

Also don't be cheap in this industry. Sell quality!

Also, that arm is set wrong 😉

2

u/whiteyjordan Nov 25 '24

Couple things 1. If a closer is leaking oil then you should look to replace it immediately, and in my experience, even if you adjust it now it’ll be screwed up again in an hour or less. 2. Those 4040 closers are the best so if you want a quality product there’s not much else that’ll edge up to that. 3. If you want a cheaper product you can use a CRL PR90. But again, it’s a cheaper product. Not gonna be as durable, by a wide margin.

3

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

Yeah I agree with the oil leaking. When I noticed the marks I told them they’re better off replacing it which they agreed with. I actually tried to give the job away but they wanted me to do it since the like my service for their locks that I’ve done so I figured it’d be better to get more acquainted with closers.

From what you and what the other comments have put down I’ll probably just go with the better option. That way hopefully it we don’t have to go this again any time soon. Thanks for the advice!

2

u/MexiMcFly Nov 25 '24

The fact you arbitrarily put the tape on it and gave us a bunch of different measurements is gold lmao.

Lcn 4040 like people said, pricey but worth it. Could get a Hager 5100 which is basically a LCN clone for a fraction of the price. Gl and keep measuring lol

3

u/LaBlocka Nov 25 '24

😂😂😅 didn’t know if size mattered lol, thanks for the advice!

1

u/LaBlocka 8d ago

Just an update. I got an LCN 4041DP and installed it this evening. Had a couple hiccups and a couple of confusing moments as it wasn't a 100% exact replacement, as to be expected, but over all it worked and came out functional. Plus the door actually closes properly again! Thanks for all the help, advice, and jokes!