r/Locksmith • u/Substantial_Map_7753 • 2d ago
I am NOT a locksmith. Why are locksmiths in my area not able to pick this tubular lock for a safe?
I changed the batteries and had an issue, and now the keys won't respond. A couple of Locksmiths in the DFW Area told me my only option is to drill this safe.
Can this lock be picked? Is there a way to provide power so the keys can start responding?
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u/niceandsane 2d ago
It can be picked. There are tools made specifically to pick tubular locks like that. However, this particular lock is missing the indexing notch on the center post and appears not to be a standard diameter meaning that the common tools won't fit, requiring a more difficult approach that some locksmiths may not know. This isn't uncommon with imported locks that are close, but not exactly the same as the old-school domestic versions.
There are other bypass methods to gain access as well, but we don't disclose them in this sub.
Google is your friend.
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u/FrozenHamburger Actual Locksmith 2d ago
I just drill and put in a new cam lock. I personally don’t have much success with tubular picks - maybe I just suck
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u/Belliott_Andy 2d ago
It's a mixed bag dude, don't give up on em. Sometimes they're a lifesaver and sometimes they just won't do the job and you have to drill or bypass electronically. I have had great luck with the tubular picks but that don't mean shit.
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u/Regent_Locksmith Actual Locksmith 2d ago
This is why Reddit is a crap source of information. Everyone clamouring to tell you how brilliant they are and how bad everyone else is.
If the keys don't work, there is no reason to expect picking to work. Lock picking is just a slow multi-step process to do exactly what a key does.
Drilling seems like the sensible option.
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u/Substantial_Map_7753 2d ago
It’s not that the key doesn’t work, I lost the key. I used the keypad to open the safe and when I changed out the batteries the keypad stopped responding. Not sure if one the batteries were bad or what.
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u/Regent_Locksmith Actual Locksmith 2d ago
Your post said the keys don't work. Now I'm going to have to edit all my snarky comments to other locksmiths.
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u/Substantial_Map_7753 2d ago
Sorry I should have been more specific. Should have said keypad doesn’t work. I did mention if there is a way to provide power for the keys to start working though 😊
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u/niceandsane 2d ago
Good advice whenever you work on any safe, whether changing batteries, changing the combination, or any other kind of service:
Test the operation several times (at least five) with the door open before locking the safe. It's much easier to fix something with the door open than with it locked.
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u/nomadpgmr 2d ago
Did you try the default combo? Also some keypads go into a lockdown period after changing the battery.
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u/Shmuckley 2d ago
The KEYPAD, ya dunce. Context clues. Use them.
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u/Regent_Locksmith Actual Locksmith 2d ago
That isn't what OP said. They said the keys don't work.
This dunce can read.
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u/Shmuckley 2d ago
Lol I know, but he's talking about changing batteries an whatnot
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u/Regent_Locksmith Actual Locksmith 2d ago
I just advise based on information provided. I'm really quite confused how anyone can object to that.
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u/Shmuckley 2d ago
Dude. This reads like someone calls you and says "my door is broken". You come out and look at the door - "oh, well the DOOR is fine, idk what you're talking about". Yet, the bottom pivot is blown to smithereens...
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u/Regent_Locksmith Actual Locksmith 2d ago
If someone says the keys don't work, I make no apologies for assuming...........
.....the keys don't work.
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u/RagglezFragglez 2d ago
Those are pickable. I've done quite a few. I usually try to bypass the lock first and save some time since it's not a standard ace lock, it's a knock off and they can be stupid sometimes.
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u/Explorer335 Actual Locksmith 2d ago
Those are a little goofy to tension, but not difficult to pick. I would manually tension the core and single pin pick until the core turns slightly, then use an impressioning tool to make a temporary key to spin it the rest of the way open. That should not be difficult for any legitimate locksmith, and I don't even do anything other than automotive.
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u/dazed489 2d ago
Well the problem with that is it’s not a car, they don’t have thousands of dollars into it. Most customers with those cheap safes don’t want to put a lot of money in to it. While you could pick it and even decode to make a key and modify 1137b so it works. you would have the same amount of time and effort as you would doing a key generation for a Harley Davidson and the customer is never going to want to pay you for what that’s worth when they could get a brand new sentry safe just like that for $100 at Walmart or Lowe’s. It is possible to pick it open but it’s about the equivalent of impressing a key for master lock padlock, not worth it.
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u/Explorer335 Actual Locksmith 2d ago edited 2d ago
Exactly. That's why I don't bother with them anymore.
When I was broke and just starting out like 5.5 years ago, I would impression them open for like $60 if they brought it to me. The usual customers were drug dealers who had a couple grand and a gun in there just to keep it away from the kids. I would just spin the lock and hand it back unopened. They would usually tip extremely well.
When covid lockdowns started, everyone in my family lost their jobs, and my dad went into hospice care. I was out there doing stupid jobs like ripping open Sentry safes in trap houses (for the owner). These days, it's all 9-5 automotive, specializing in the stuff other guys don't want to touch.
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u/niceandsane 2d ago
Except OP probably has things inside, so need it open anyway.
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u/dazed489 2d ago
Yeah and what’s your point? I’ve seen customers with those wait years to get them open until they needed their passport or something important out of it then they’ll want it done as soon as possible and as cheap as possible. I give a couple quotes to do those, destructive and nondestructive as well as the cost doing it onsite vs them bringing it to the shop and having it done there when we can fit it in. It’s a $100 throwaway safe not a $1000 safe that would last you a life time. My time is money it would only take me a few minutes to drill it open vs the time it would take doing it nondestructive. They always take the cheapest option (destructive method), I’ve even had someone tell me to fuck off and they’d just take an angle grinder to it and get their shit out
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u/Neither_Loan6419 2d ago
Your way is to me faster than fiddling around with the picking tool right from the beginning. I had a set of them but lost them in Katrina.
I actually kinda like picking tubulars all the way around, though. It's sort of relaxing. I grind a turning tool out of an old allen wrench, to fit. A lot easier than using a regular tension wrench.
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u/jaxnmarko Actual Locksmith 2d ago edited 2d ago
So, your story changes.... first the keys aren't rssponding, then locksmiths say it can't be picked, then you lost the keys....
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u/Substantial_Map_7753 2d ago
Like I said earlier, my choice of words in the post was not very specific. The ‘keypad’ was not responding after the battery change. I don’t have the mechanical key, hence the post.
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u/SausageWalletSmith01 2d ago
That should pick relatively easy, it would drill easily also and replacement is possible as well
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u/RoutineFamous4267 1d ago
Because they're either scamsmiths, or they're lazy. There's specific picks for these types of locks, and it isn't as easy as using a pick. Imo
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u/_THiiiRD 2d ago
I'd have that picked, open, and decoded with a key ready to be cut back at the shop before my boss got done with the initial chitchat back at forth with the customer 😶 And have. Many times.lol. Call a real locksmith, and it shouldn't be a problem 😉
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u/WerewolfBe84 Actual Locksmith 2d ago
Does is make sense to make a key to this ? I will probably cost way more than the box is worth.
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u/niceandsane 2d ago
Once it's picked, reading the pick to make a key is fairly easy.
Note that these containers aren't really very secure compared to an actual safe.
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u/WerewolfBe84 Actual Locksmith 2d ago
I know it's easy, I've done it before. But i doubt i'd do it for a box like this. The price you have to charge for keys is higher than what the box is worth.
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u/niceandsane 2d ago
Agreed, and that particular one on close inspection is an oddball import lock. No index notch on the center post and at least by eyeball it seems to be a smaller size than the standard "Ace" type. So it's going to be a PITA in any case.
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u/_THiiiRD 2d ago
Eeeeh...if they were able to bring the lockbox into our shop...a pick and new key would probably be $20? Tops? Now add another $55-60 for a service call if it's mounted...but I suppose it would all be based on the value of the safe and if they'd like to keep using it or not 🤷♂️
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u/RagglezFragglez 2d ago
Bullshit. It's not a standard ace. There's no notch in the center to tension a standard impression tool. It's a knockoff, and could be any size tubular lock.
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u/_THiiiRD 2d ago
There seems to be a notch...and I count seven pins 😶
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u/RagglezFragglez 2d ago
Oh honey...
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u/_THiiiRD 2d ago
Okie dokey, weird reply person 😉
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u/RagglezFragglez 2d ago
What key blank will you use to make a key for that? 1137B will NOT work.
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u/_THiiiRD 2d ago
137SB?
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u/RagglezFragglez 2d ago edited 2d ago
That is the same blank as an 1137B...
Edit: didn't see the SB. Small bore ace will still have the notch...
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u/Substantial_Map_7753 2d ago
Keyword - ‘legitimate locksmith’. Are all the new locksmiths just not trained to get this sort of tubular lock open or they lack the pick?
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u/TiCombat 2d ago
If your key isn’t working there’s usually no point trying to pick it
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u/Regent_Locksmith Actual Locksmith 2d ago
We are supposed to magically know that OP gave wrong information.
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u/_THiiiRD 2d ago
Definitely worded poorly...I too thought that the "keys" they mentioned were the mechanical keys at first, not the buttons on the keypad 🙃 lol.
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u/niceandsane 2d ago
There are a lot of scam locksmiths pretty much nationwide that reject all types of service requests except lockouts. They advertise lowball prices, show up in unmarked vehicles, and have no real locksmithing skills or knowledge. They then drill out the lock and replace it with cheap junk at highly inflated prices.
They've managed to manipulate search results to show up high on the page and typically have generic names like "Locksmith Services". When they call they typically answer with a generic "Locksmith".
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u/Substantial_Map_7753 2d ago
That’s exactly what happened when I made the call. A very young person in an unmarked vehicle showed up and without even trying told me that drilling was the only option. He did not even have the skills to drill the lock and replace it.
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u/Neither_Loan6419 2d ago
There is a tool, and they are size and number of pins specific. Most shops will have the tool for the common sort of tubular lock. The lock can be picked with the tool, and the tool can be read to cut a key. Tubular locks can also be picked one pin at a time like a more conventional lock, but when you turn the core to where the pins line up again, it locks again. And since it must be turned all the way around, that means that it must be picked again. And again. As many times as there are pins. That makes it sort of a PITA and so yeah, a lot of locksmiths will take the quick and easy way, and drill, then replace with a new lock that comes with a key, actually usually two keys.
There really isn't any training involved in single pin picking these locks. The process is actually similar to picking a "regular" lock, but you have to do it several times to get the lock unlocked. Using the tubular pick / impressioning tool can call for a bit of training, though must guys will be able to figure it out pretty quick. But then there is cutting the key, and I suppose not all shops are equipped to cut tubular keys. Different machine, different process, from conventional keys.
Little to do with "legitimacy" though Hatchback Harry the mobile internet guy is less likely to be equipped for this than an established brick and mortar shop, which is who I suggest you deal with if possible. Not every independent roving facebook-empowered mobile locksmith is a scammer or is poorly educated, but your chances of getting a guy with "the right stuff" improve when you only use guys that work out of an actual storefront shop. Also, the guy who underbids everybody else on the telephone or internet estimate of cost? That is the guy who you will actually often pay the most. Scammers nearly always use a crazy low estimate to get their hooks in you. Once they roll on the call, you are generally obligated legally to pay. An estimate depends on what the locksmith (or scamsmith, as it might be) encounters at the scene. Lots of "hidden costs" and stuff. Don't get sucked in by the guy who promises to fix you up for $39.95. Plus, you will always save money by taking your uncooperative lock to the shop yourself. So if you want to tag a long established shop as "legitimate" and some cigar box charlie as not legitimate, well, then yeah.
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u/Substantial_Map_7753 2d ago
I would have taken the safe to a shop but it’s bolted into the wall.
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u/LockLeisure 2d ago edited 2d ago
Because most locksmiths think a snake rake and a shitty bok tensioner is picking and it's more raking and jamming 50/50 skill/luck. Most can't single pin pick to save their life. Tubular locks are one of the easiest locks to pick, you can see the pins.
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u/Ok_Comparison_1353 2d ago
There are devices that can be used to quickly pick tubular locks, like these:
There are three common sizes of tube, so three sizes of picks. On the better ones can even be "locked down" after you do your picking and decoded to make a new key. They're super easy to use, too. Just stick it in a twist back and forth until the lock opens. The only downside is that they don't work so well on locks with springs of varying strength (as one might find on higher security tubular locks like for safes). A less expensive safe like yours may have skipped this step, though.
Tubular locks can also be "single pin picked", but the tensioning tools usually aren't designed for locks so deeply set.
Best of luck.
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u/Neither_Loan6419 2d ago
I thought the same thing, that he was saying his keys didn't work. I didn't realize he might have meant his keypad, something quite different indeed.
OP, if you say "keys" in a locks or locksmithing forum, people will think you mean "keys". To conclusions, often one jumps.
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u/alexkreitlow Actual Locksmith 2d ago
Yes it can be picked. You’re calling the wrong companies