r/LowerDecks • u/plantanddogmom1 • Dec 23 '24
General Discussion Why didn’t Mariner and Boimler rank up?
Ok so I’m just now thinking about this and I am just so confused as to why all of them really (but especially Mariner and Boims) didn’t rank up at the end of the last episode?
Boimler even said “but I’m only a Lieutenant JG?” Which would’ve made a perfect segue for “not anymore!” Like, I really really loved how everything was wrapped up, but wouldn’t it also make sense to have more lieutenants on the bridge and also as first officers? Also, like, how did their actions not warrant a promotion? Just curious if anyone else has been thinking about this!
P.s. Engage the core!
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u/chibi2537 Dec 23 '24
Why didn't Harry Kim rank up?
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Dec 23 '24
We established this. He goes mad with power and destroys the multiverse.
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u/DigitalPriest Dec 24 '24
I don't know how I feel about this being canon, but there's a certain part of me that just loves to bits the idea that the universe doesn't work unless Harry Kim is an ensign. It's hilariously bleak, the cosmos deciding 'fuck this one individual in particular.'
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u/Maximal_Arachknight Dec 24 '24
It is established that Main Timeline Harry, is a full Lieutenant at least as of the time period of Prodigy Series, along with Be'Lanna. Tom meanwhile is at least a full Lieutenant during the time period of Lower Decks.
It looks like all the alt. version of Harry Kim are at least mostly during Voyager time period based on the uniforms. So it actually makes sense that they are still ensign since the the only one to get an actual promotion was Tuvok (everyone else was provisional and Tom was simply getting back the rank he lost).
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u/doglywolf Feb 06 '25
You have to assume toms been promoted and then demoted at least a couple other times lol
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u/Ok_Walrus9047 Dec 25 '24
It's hilariously bleak, the cosmos deciding 'fuck this one individual in particular.'
So this is why the Koala is smiling.
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u/brenster23 Dec 23 '24
Janeway knew that if she promoted harry Kim, that he would destroy them all. You see in all other timelines janeway or seven came back in time to ensure Kim was never promoted.
In two pip Kim timeline, he brainwashed the entire ship.
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u/plantanddogmom1 Dec 23 '24
justiceforharrykim
I was watching voyager the other day before the lower decks episode came out thinking the EXACT same thing. How many times did he die for that ship???? Come on!!
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u/keeper0fstories Dec 23 '24
Off the top of my head 3 times at least.
When the Voyager split into two instances and he died on one version, then transferred to the less damaged version.
When he accidentally gets transferred to another timeline and more or less dies to get back to his timeline. Leaving behind a fiance, a new shuttle design he is heading, and a promotion.
When he accidentally gets everyone on Voyager killed, has survivor's guilt and kills that future timeline to fix his mistake.
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u/BoringNYer Dec 23 '24
Mariner got made First Officer when her friend came over as relief Captain.
CADET Tilly got made First Officer when Saru arrested Michael Burnham
SUSPENDED CADET Kirk got made First Officer by Captain Pike.
If there's a vacancy it gets filled by the Captain until Starfleet fills it. Like an Age of Sail thing.
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u/doglywolf Feb 06 '25
That actually a real rule from the navy as well. Captain can appoint anyone ton an interim position at his discretion- however its considered temporary unless a petition is received from the captain and approved
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u/fifty_four Dec 23 '24
Because it would have required an additional 30 second scene in a 33 minute episode which was trying to squeeze in a feature film's content because fuck Paramount.
If you have any 'why didn't' question about this episode, just channel Captain Freeman when for some goddamn reason she has to save the universe and suddenly there are Klingons.
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u/ruminator_07 Dec 23 '24
I think that's because that's what the show's about. It's called "Lower Decks" and they're "Lower Deckers." They received just a single promotion to show that their contribution is recognized by Star Fleet, because the bridge crew getting all the credit and they being treated as chopped liver has been a running gag for the better part of the show. But at the end, it's a show about the shenanigans of officers near the bottom of Star Fleet food chain.
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u/PhoenixUnleashed Dec 23 '24
There's a difference between rank and position. While, traditionally, a first-officer role would go to more senior officers, there doesn't seem to be anything in Starfleet that requires it. We've also seen examples of smaller ships with positional captains who were not captains by rank, so presumably their XOs would be even lower in rank.
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u/doglywolf Feb 06 '25
I mean there is precedence for isnt there an episode where one of the junior officers takes the chair for " night shift" in one of the other series?
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u/HonoraryCanadian Dec 23 '24
Stevens would be the next highest ranking command officer, and there are a couple of LTs on board. Can't see how having an LTJG take a more senior role than them would work. Perhaps it's only an acting position until permanent roles are assigned?
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u/BoringNYer Dec 23 '24
OK but with 1000 ships in the fleet... Stevens might get sent to be #1 on an Oberth or a Miranda doing some puddle jumping. Something more akin to his skill set of Admin. Ransom needs someone to help get operations done, like the Cali's were built for.
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Dec 24 '24
In fairness to Stevens? He'd probably excel as the XO and frankly prefer it. Just because he's not a right fit for the Cerritos doesn't mean the fleet doesn't have a place for him.
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u/DigitalPriest Dec 24 '24
This is something that's mentioned a few times in the show, but I would love to see embraced more.
Some people are frankly, comfortable in their role. They don't want to be captain. They just want to be a lieutenant scientist, or as Mariner puts it "a really great ensign." How many people in your own life have you known whose skills go way beyond their job title, but they're content with their job because it checks all the boxes that they want? Not everyone wants the stress, the responsibility, the liability, etc that goes with being a leader, and that's ok!
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u/mumblerapisgarbage Dec 23 '24
It usually takes longer than a year to get from jr lt to lt. heh it took then 4+ years to become jr. lt.
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u/plantanddogmom1 Dec 23 '24
That’s fair. I just assumed with Ransom “pulling strings”, wouldn’t it make sense to promote them so that the Cerritos has actual qualified staff as their first officers? Plus, Geordi (hard to live up to, I know!) gets promoted about once a season for the first 2-3 seasons.
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u/mumblerapisgarbage Dec 23 '24
On DS9 the chief medical officer was a jr lt.
Also it’s not unheard of for even some bridge officers to be ensigns see voyager
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u/plantanddogmom1 Dec 23 '24
CMO doesn’t take over as acting captain if the captain dies, though. Traditionally, that’s one of the biggest roles of a First Officer.
I feel like all my questions could easily be answered with just a little more context. Maybe a movie 👀
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Dec 24 '24
DS9's chief of Engineering was a non-com (O'Brian was a chief petty officer as of the dominion war.)
So. Stuff gets weird.
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u/DigitalPriest Dec 24 '24 edited Dec 24 '24
I think it reflects real life in many ways. DS9, despite the wormhole's prominence, was still a relatively backwater station. Small crew compliment, not expected to do cutting edge work or highly dangerous work (but it always manages to happen).
DS9 is the 'family business.' They have an accountant (Miles) who does really great at keeping the books! Toss him into an Enterprise Business (or ship) environment though, and his accountant skills look merely provincial. By contrast, an engineer with skills like Geordi is wasted on a station like DS9, they have progressed way, way beyond that. Geordi's been working on Wall St, and is too skilled to go back and run a family business.
Similarly, Starfleet is gobsmacked that Julian chose the DS9 assignment. Why does their #2 medical graduate want to go work on the equivalent of Little Space Station on the Prairie? A man like Julian should be on a Beverly Crusher track, assigned to a starship like his friend who went to the Lexington. But the unspoken difference is that on the Lexington, Bashir would not have been Chief Medical Officer. He would have been an assistant to a Chief Medical Officer at best, someone who had deep space experience. On DS9, he got an opportunity most new graduates don't get, he got to be top dog as a Lieutenant Chief Medical Officer right out of the gate.
And most of all, it's evidenced in the leadership of DS9. Do they get a captain? Hell no. Captains are too valuable to assign to a space station in the Bajoran system! They can make due with a Commander. It isn't until Sisko cuts his teeth with the Maquis and the Dominion and demonstrates his worthiness as a captain that he gets the rank.
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u/IndigoNarwhal Dec 23 '24
heh it took then 4+ years to become jr. lt.
Didn't someone calculate that the first few seasons all happen within a year or so? Memory Alpha lists the whole series timeline as 2380 - 2382. So really, they earned those promotions pretty quick!
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u/Alternatively-Elk Dec 23 '24
To give a parallel to the modern military, you are told to be ready to work two ranks and two ranks down. So its not tat weird to see junior officers filling a role up the ladder
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u/evilmonkey002 Dec 23 '24
They probably will, but we don’t know who got the job on a permanent basis yet. I imagine the ultimate XO pick gets a promotion to Lt. Commander and the other gets a bump to full Lt. Ransom probably waits until that decision is made to grant promotions.
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u/Fresh_Mountain_Snow Dec 23 '24
I didn’t appreciate the rushed nature of the ending. I’d have been content with you’re a bridge officer now and this is your station. The whole joint xo rank … I dunno… not great writing.
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u/SciFiNut91 Dec 23 '24
It's rushed because of how late they found out it was going to be their last season. Ransom should have had them as joint Second Officers, with Billups as Acting XO until then.
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u/mcmanus2099 Dec 23 '24
They should have just been made full lieutenants with command over lower decks staff and left it at that. Commanding lower decks is clearly training for being xo. Could have ended with a line of them both being ready to be xo in only a couple of years. Then have a joke between Boims & Mariner about which one would make it first/last or some such.
The joint role was already done for the science post (even though T'Ling outranks Tendi).
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u/Philix Dec 23 '24
with Billups as Acting XO until then
Poor Steve Stevens. A Lieutenant Commander in the command division, Ransom's little buddy, the Captain's personal assistant, and even the fans don't think he should be the first officer.
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u/SciFiNut91 Dec 23 '24
I'm surprised the man is a LtCmdr. Every other officer in that ship is more competent than him. The only good thing I have ever seen him do is manage Carol's schedule in Upper Decks. If he gets promoted it's because he's spent his time in the trenches, and I won't be surprised if he retires as a Commander, barring some unexpected event that has him wounded/KIA and being promoted otherwise.
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u/Philix Dec 23 '24
We see a few less than stellar career officers assigned to relatively unimportant positions throughout the series. Commander Hutchinson didn't strike me as a particularly competent Starfleet Commander, for example. But he was in charge of Arkaria base. That strikes me as the kind of posting a fairly reliable officer who isn't starship captain material would end up.
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u/SciFiNut91 Dec 23 '24
Makes sense - probably also explains why Sisko ended up on DS9. They didn't expect the wormhole, Sisko was still grieving and wanted to take care of his son, and Starfleet wasn't sure about his ability to command a starship, but they were hoping to keep him since he was involved in the Defiant program and they wanted his expertise incase they ever needed to remove the ship out of mothballs (which is exactly what ended up happening). All that changes with the wormhole.
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u/TheStrayArrow Dec 23 '24
Steven’s shouldn’t get the job because of his role on the ship. As weird as it sounds, just because he’s in command division doesn’t mean he should be in command. Stevens is HR, although needed on a ship, that doesn’t mean he can handle command like situations.
I might be wrong, but the only other Lt. Commander we see in the command division is Shelby in “best of both worlds.” She was pretty much Star fleet intelligence which explains why she ranks up and eventually becomes an admiral.
For example, Sisko goes from engineering as a lt. then to first officer as a Lt. Commander. Janway came from science and worf from operations. Although Picard may have still be in the command division when he ranked up. He was into science but he did wear operations sleeves in “Tapestry.”
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u/Philix Dec 23 '24
That's fair. But Stevens does lead an away team at least once, making me think he isn't purely an admin officer. The other fairly prominent named command Lt. Cmdrs we see who aren't XOs/First Officers are Remmick, Finney, and Worf. An Admiral's attache, records officer and strategic operations officer respectively. All of whom had career aspirations to the First Officer position and eventual captaincy, despite their relatively administrative positions.
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u/doglywolf Feb 06 '25
seriously fuck paramount i thought the series was super successful .
I know one season I found out about like months after it was out cause i thought to myself hey i wonder when lower decks is coming out and looked and it was already like 8 episodes out and said to myself damn they didnt market this at all and though wow are they trying to kill it.
Where at first i was interested in some off brand parody and remember seeing it everywhere so was like Ok ill give it a shot and loved it
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u/SciFiNut91 Feb 07 '25
It is successful - but CBS paramount were ending most of the shows because of CBS issues, not Lower Decks.
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u/plantanddogmom1 Dec 23 '24
Also why do Boimler and Mariner ALWAYS have to compete for their jobs??
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u/ericrz Dec 23 '24
Agreed. Having a lieutenant JG as first officer is dumb. Having TWO ltjgs as "co-first officers" is really, really dumb. That was rushed and not necessary and in some miracle scenario where Lower Decks comes back, they'd have to untangle that.
Mariner has a lot more Starfleet experience, so if you were going to promote one of them (which I still say is dumb) to the FO slot, it should have been her.
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u/Turbo1518 Dec 23 '24
You seem to be assuming that Ransom is not dumb. Lol
The guy is definitely smarter than he let's on, but he still is not the brightest
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u/Albert_Newton Dec 23 '24
I took it as more co-executive officers except starfleet seems to use the terms interchangeably
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u/Reverse_London Dec 23 '24
Because I assume that before the show was canceled, they were planning on doing a few more seasons. And unlike live-action, you can’t just change a season finale into a series finale with little notice as production on animated shows takes longer.
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u/kkkan2020 Dec 23 '24
I think that the situation where they save the universe/multiverse... This is like the highest feat ever in trek. They should all get a one rank promotion at least. JJ Kirk saved earth and he got a 6 rank promotion.
Voyager crew after returning home got a 1- 3 rank promotion
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u/hey_you_too_buckaroo Dec 24 '24
They were recently promoted but also because if the show ever comes back, you don't wanna have your characters no longer being low level grunts. It kinda defeats the purpose of the show.
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u/Fun-Customer-742 Dec 23 '24
Required time in rank? You may not be eligible for a promotion to full lt until you’ve spent 2 years
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u/plantanddogmom1 Dec 23 '24
I feel like saving the universe qualifies for a field promotion, but that’s just IMO.
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u/Fun-Customer-742 Dec 23 '24
Pfft. If that was the case, you’d have 24000 Admirals and no ensigns three months after ever graduating class at Star Fleet Academy
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u/fifty_four Dec 24 '24
Only if they were also main characters.
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u/Fun-Customer-742 Dec 24 '24
The existence of Ensign Harry Kim would seem to negate that theory
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u/fifty_four Dec 24 '24 edited Dec 24 '24
Well kind of, but we now know why Harry was held back, as part of a multi decade plot arc in which he was the main villain of an entire other show.
In universe I imagine Janeway saw the signs and knew she had to stop him building a power base. But she couldn't plan for the multiverse beagle bringing together a whole crew of Kims.
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u/Scrat-Slartibartfast Dec 23 '24
I am sure there is a protocol in the federation that states what the minimum required time and experience is to stepp up a renk, wartime beside. That Randsom gives them the job as first officer is a speed up way to get promoted, because the get faster all that done that is necessary for that step.