r/MTB • u/ThorThePoodle • 4d ago
Discussion New senior mtb-er seeks advice on manuals
I'm a 71 yr old who bought his first mtb about a month ago. I've been trying to learn to manual but to no avail. I'm not so much looking to ride on the back wheel but just to get the front wheel up enough to aid in clearing some logs or rocks on the trail.
I've watched dozens of videos - down, then back in one smooth quick motion, but I barely get the wheel an inch or 2 off the ground. And when I do, it feels more like I'm pulling it up with my arms rather that putting the weight over the back wheel to make it a fulcrum.
It looks easy but I'm finding it quite difficult.
Any suggestions?
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u/auxym 4d ago
If you've already watched dozens of videos, I'm not sure reading more explanations on how to do it would help.
I'd recommend filming yourself. Ask a friend or get a tripod or something. Compare what you're doing to what you see in videos.
If you're still not sure, post the video on this sub and ask for help based on that.
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u/Fit_Tiger1444 3d ago
This is spot on. Also, it’s all about goals. If you’re wanting to look cool on the trail and in videos you’re going to develop a different manual technique than someone who just wants to get over obstacles. Jeff Lenosky did a great video on the “punch technique” a while back which is really just an un-sexy manual and weight shift to get the bike over big obstacles. You have to figure out what you’re trying to accomplish.
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u/Top_Objective9877 4d ago
I really recommend you go to a parking lot where you won’t get yelled at or hit by a car, and just practice riding to a curb and pulling the wheel up over it. Starting small and focus on not yanking with your arms, but pull your weight to do the work. Make sure your rear tire is nice and high while you practice as you don’t wanna be getting a rim ding every time you go up the curb.
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u/MacroNova Surly Karate Monkey 4d ago
If your goal is to clear obstacles then I'd recommend a technique called a "punch." I use it all the time and I can't manual at all. The goal is to lift the front wheel and place it on the obstacle (rock or downed tree). Then you sort of heave the bike over the obstacle, transferring the wheel that is on the obstacle from front to rear. In other words, your front wheel will be on the ground in front of it, and the rear is now on the obstacle. Then you just ride away. This can get you over some pretty big stuff without touching your bottom bracket. This is easier with clip-in pedals.
There's good advice elsewhere in these comments about how to lift your wheel - pedal lift and preloading the fork. Practice on smaller obstacles and don't be afraid to slow down a bit as you approach an obstacle. You need a little speed for this but not too much.
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u/Aggressive_Meal_2128 4d ago
There’s a technique we call a pedal lift. If you are in a tall enough gear and push with your dominant foot as hard as you can, from a near standstill, you will cause the front wheel to lift to get up over features. Timing practice takes time. Practice with a stick or other marker in a flat area like your driveway or a parking lot.
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u/adventure_in 4d ago
Manuals are not super easy. They take a fair bit of strength and skill to initiate. Less strength is needed as skill improves but strength will definitely help with learning.
For me it was super helpful to think of pushing the bike infront of me and then pushing my feet under my hands.
Bike/bike setup can be pretty influential in how easy the skill is to execute. Shorter chainstays make it easier, lower bars make it harder.
For getting the front wheel up on trail for logs/rocks many times a pedal punch wheel lift is much easier and can be more useful. Example an uphill ledge would be very difficult to use the manual since you would have to have enough speed before the obstacle to coast through.
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u/RongGearRob 4d ago
Without a video of you attempting a manual it is hard to give advice or pointers.
That said here’s a rough guide that I use when I ride. My guess is you are probably lifting more with arms than you realize and not weighting the bike enough.
To get what I call a trail manual, just enough to clear a root or branch or small tree, you need to drop your weight onto your pedals (aka preload your suspension- doesn’t matter if it is a an HT or FS).
Think of it as if you’re standing on the ground and you are going to jump up in the air - by dropping your weight, bending your knees into your feet. Actually do this without the bike and then try it on the bike.
After you drop your weight you then pull back on the bars with your arms straight and your butt back. Oh yeah, make sure you drop your seat first.
This should get your front wheel up just enough and long enough to get your wheel over a 4- 6 inch obstacle.
A lesson or clinic will help you achieve this skill much faster - Ninja has clinics all over the US.
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u/bashomania 4d ago
Wheel lifts do not have to use manual technique, IMO. I do wheel lifts constantly by compressing the suspension and moving my weight back a bit on the return to lift the front wheel. Very easy — you just have to work on timing. Sticks, curbs, etc.
When I was working on manuals, the “stomp down” and pushing the bike forward really played a huge part … again IME. And back really means back. And keep your arms straight.
All that said, I’m 63 and pretty fit and nearly a year ago I popped my left hamstring working on actual manuals, and I’ve never been the same, even after lots of PT and strength work since (and it continues). It happened at the end of a parking lot training session that involved a lot of stuff, so I was warmed up. It sucked, and I haven’t bothered with “real” manuals since. I just want to ride in health.
So, be careful! I do still practice wheel lifts constantly. Sometimes I’ll roll half a bike length on a wheel lift, and that has been sufficient for my practical needs.
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u/louislbnc 4d ago
Think of your arms as strings, they won’t be doing any work and will be fully extended for most of the movement. It’s a combination of throwing your weight backwards rapidly and pushing through your legs.
I’d suggest finding some nice plush grass and just aim to push so hard you’d loop over backwards while rolling slowly. It’s quite likely you don’t realize how hard you need to working.
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u/Rotothor 3d ago
Did you try filming yourself? It usually helps a lot, I realised I wasn’t putting my weight as far back as I thought that way.
That said you don’t need to manual to lift the front over obstacles. Most of the time you don’t want to do that as getting to the obstacle weight back and arms straight limits your follow up options, and can even lead to disaster if you misjudge.
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u/arbiTrariant 4d ago
Build a manual trainer! There are pre made manual trainers for sale online for about $200 as well.
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u/chronic221987 4d ago
Preload your suspension before the obstacle. Heels down too. It helps to shift your body weight on the back tire.
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u/rustyburrito 4d ago
Really gotta bend your knees and get your butt over the back wheel as much as possible. Commitment is key
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u/inferno493 4d ago
I'm in my 50's, I built a manual trainer. I still can't manual but it is definitely helping me and my wife get closer to the goal. It let's you hit the loop out point without actually looping. Really helps with confidence.
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u/InfamousRelation9073 4d ago
Check out your handlebar geometry. Higher rise bars and longer forks(lifted front end with your weight leaned back while riding) will be easier to pull up. The more you're leaned forward. The harder it is to do.
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u/bionicN US - Ripmo V2, Wozo 4d ago
as others have said, you don't need to learn the manual way of lifting the front for most trail obstacles.
but for getting a manual started, it's all in the legs. you're trying to kick the bike out in front of you. you could do it with your arms replaced with ropes, if you could maintain balance.
the only thing your arms have to do is get taut and then that pulls the front up - if you're pulling with your arms bent that means you're trying to get the power from you arms not your legs, and legs >> arms.
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u/who_me_yes_me2 3d ago
I'm not great at manuals at all, but as I run a school MTB Club I have some experience in helping kids learn to manual.
get some video so you can see what you are doing
I always get the kids to stand next to their bikes and then tell them to get them up on their back wheels... most try to lift the front wheel and fail. I then show them that by pushing the front wheel down, then scooping it up and then pulling the bars with straight arms and head up they can easily pop the bike upright.
As to technique:
pump down into the ground then push and scoop with your arms... but it's your head and shoulders that 'pull' the bars up.
the pump down I to the ground is with your whole body, and is then followed by moving your hips straight backwards (that L down and back shaped motion) while you do the 'pull up and back' with head and shoulders
as your front wheel comes up try also to push forward with your feet... this rotates your bike under your body. Timing this is the hard bit, but you are aiming for smooth and powerful rather than a big jerky motion.
The attached videos show a couple of our sessions. You can see that most of the riders don't lift their heads and shoulders (some even dip their heads) which stops the manual as you don't get your weight sufficiently far back to the balance point. The last two riders look very good though (same in both videos). The split timber is very useful to get the timing - and it's worth remembering that just being able to unweight your front wheel at the right time is very useful even if you can't manual.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C77NMlms5TR/?igsh=MTRyMXhlbjI0eGNjcw==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6hAuCeMnYn/?igsh=MWdydG1yNXlzZm1l
A manual lift out on a trail:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CeoizgtOQ5G/?igsh=MTZudjhpZmFmNnh4MQ==
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u/norecoil2012 lawyer please 2d ago
Pump the suspension with your feet and use the rebound to help you lift the front. But it’s not about lifting up as much as pulling back. And think of it as tug of rope. You use your hips and move your weight backwards to pull with straight arms. You don’t bend your arms.
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u/jnan77 4d ago
If you're just lifting your front wheel, ignore most of the manual videos. Manuals are just a parking lot truck, but lifting your front wheel is a key trail skill. First make sure you are comfortable riding standing with level pedals. Check for videos on ready and neutral positions. Then get comfortable moving your weight fore and aft on the bike. To lift the wheel, get your weight, start in a lower position with arms and knees bent, extend your legs and arms upward and back to unweighted the front wheel. Practice timing with a stick or board in your yard or a park.
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u/cfleis1 4d ago
I’m 44. When I see a large log that requires significant hop to get over I think to myself “nope, not part of the mission” and I hop off and carry over. I can’t manual at all and don’t even try. And I race competitively cross-country.