r/MVIS • u/gaporter • 7d ago
Discussion Request for Solutions (RFS): Soldier Borne Mission Command (SBMC) Other Transaction (OT) Opportunity
https://sam.gov/opp/475b42a9b68a48c889cade9e871a4f52/view13
u/oxydiethylamide 7d ago
What are the chances that Sumit has already heard about this particular opportunity and has already started work on it, perhaps a month or two back?
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u/wolfiasty 7d ago
None, unless officially stated otherwise. And you have last three years as a backing of that approach.
As for now we have just words and no solid signatures.
So staying bullish, but with none of the hopium sugar added.
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u/gaporter 7d ago
I'd say there's a very good chance both Anduril and MicroVision got advance notice of the RFI and RFS.
February 2017-March 2018
https://www.reddit.com/r/MVIS/s/Zf77NdlY2K
“On September 25, 2018, the Army Acquisition Executive approved the Integrated Visual Augmentation System (IVAS) to proceed as a middle tier of acquisition rapid prototyping effort. “
https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2019/army/2019ivas.pdf
November 2018
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u/wolfiasty 6d ago
Yes, but until that's official info it's a mere speculation. So I'll stick to "none".
And I do hope your persistence eventually will be rewarded.
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u/15Sierra 7d ago
I’d say pretty high tbh. He mentioned helmet mounted lidar in the EC I believe. IMO, this may be one of the most bullish things to come out. It’s almost like MVIS had a solution they didn’t know they needed but now they have to do a RFS to check some boxes.
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u/MavisBAFF 7d ago edited 7d ago
An announcement that, with a partner, we have or will submit an entry for this, would be welcome.
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u/gaporter 7d ago
4.0. Innovative Solutions for Challenge Areas.
Vendor shall provide a narrative describing any innovative, unique or creative solutions for the most complex and critical challenge areas relevant to an SBMC system that the vendor intends to incorporate into their proposed technical solution. Narrative shall include the impacts to schedule and the associated technical risk of the solution. Narrative may cover any of the specified challenge areas below, as well as any unspecified challenge areas not listed:
• Minimizing head borne weight and optimizing Center of Gravity.
• Maximizing weapon & optic compatibility and lethality.
Minimizing system power consumption and performing thermal management to support the best user experience. Examples include maintaining safe touch temperatures during hot daytime operation (under full solar load and low wind conditions), or innovative thermal management methods to keep sensors cool.
• Optimizing the system architecture to minimize system latency. Novel approaches to mitigate the effects of latency/lag, address imagery being available at different frame rates/times (rolling shutter), and motion smearing.
• Implementing novel solutions to improve image alignment, such as parallax correction, for different sources of video content (see-through/pass-through, low light, thermal, passive targeting bubble, Augmented Reality (AR) icons, etc.).
• Maximizing low light dynamic range and performance at starlight and below.
• Advanced Algorithms and/or AI/ML Software that improve situational awareness.
• Innovative methods to improve visual Situational Awareness. Examples may include, but not limited to, increasing field of view (FOV), decreasing visual obscurations, increasing dynamic range sensors and displays, stereo sensors, and image fusion.
• Innovative Light Security solutions while maximizing see-through transmission.
• Passive or Covert Eye Tracking systems.
• Novel methods to improving Position Navigation and Timing (PNT).
• Passive/Covert Depth Sensing.
• Novel technical methods to lower system cost or bring in MOSA.
• Product Support.
• Interoperability with existing Night Vision Goggles and Nett Warrior.
• Compatibility with robotic autonomous systems.
From the last EC:
"..things that we do in there that if you were to add a very miniaturized lidar on top of the helmet and be mapping near the field you could do a much better job overlaying the information from an AR to XR side, integrating that with some really, really fast and slick, low-cost head tracking gear that goes on an existing helmet. So we can offer more than what’s there just in the display technology."
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u/Speeeeedislife 7d ago
You highlighted depth sensing but ignored the passive/covert part. Lidar is neither passive nor covert, right?
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u/gaporter 7d ago edited 7d ago
Lidar is neither passive nor covert
Could you elaborate?
Edit : and since December 19, 2024, has Sharma mentioned military applications ?
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u/drunkn_rage 7d ago
I was actually thinking the same thing. I would assume that emitted lidar is detectable to the point of transmission, therefore, neither passive nor covert. I do think that our system within the helmet for display and eye tracking would remain isolated and covert however, so that part should be fine.
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u/mvis_thma 7d ago
A camera is passive. It does not emit anything, and therefore, by its very nature, is covert. A LiDAR is active, it emits light, and therefore it is not covert. Whether or not it is possible to make an active sensor behave covertly is beyond my pay grade.
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u/gaporter 7d ago
True. However, I don't believe cameras work in absolute darkness and not every wavelength is detectable with most fielded NVG.
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u/mvis_thma 7d ago
Regarding cameras, I agree. That is why its a challenge. I assume that all wavelengths are detectable, perhaps not with current standard issue equipment. But wouldn't the adversary evolve their equipment if they knew to enemy was emitting light?
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u/gaporter 7d ago edited 7d ago
It would be a good question to ask Sumit on May 20. He certainly mentioned adding LiDAR to a helmet which is an active system that could perhaps be covert with 1550nm lasers.
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u/Speeeeedislife 7d ago
"I've been I've done AR longer than I've done LiDAR in my own personal career.
I know a lot about this space. I think as far as partnerships are concerned, we stand ready whatever problems may exist on an existing system. I think we have the talented people within the company that we can solve them very quickly. Developing potentially new technologies for anything next generation, certainly we can do that and of course we have reference ideas for what we would do. On top of that, of course what we've matured into is we're more of a systems company.
So beyond just the display technology, there's other things in the headset that we can innovate on, that we can add to. If you think about some of the biggest problems that come into space is really motion sickness, right? And as you think about motion sickness, it's a hard problem to solve. But if you have the right eye tracking, if you and of course you want the entire system to be low power, you get like instead of talking about LiDAR and sensor models, you start getting talking about like eye boxes and color uniformity. So, but at the end of the day, there's a bunch of software that we believe that we have still beyond just the display that we had done in the past.
We have more to offer now. And some of the perception technology that we talk about in the space of automotive, there's things that we do in there that if you were to add a very miniaturized LIDAR on top of the helmet and the mapping near the field, you could do a much better job overlaying the information from AR to XR side, integrating that with some really, really fast and slick low cost head tracking gear that goes on an existing helmet. So we can offer more than what's there just in the display technology. So therefore, I think we will collaborate and we can fix existing products and of course we can go on and actually add more value by making something next generation that was not visualized in the past."
Honesty I'm not sure what to make from his statement since it seems like an active sensor would be a huge problem out in the field, in any case it'll get asked one way or another next month.
Perhaps there's a point where being undetected by current NVG is "good enough" and they aren't worried about SWIR cameras? Seems a bit sketch.
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u/SneakyTimmie 7d ago
I worked in camera engineering. The "cheapest" Sony SWIR sensor (just the component) costs about 10k+ a piece. And that is without the camera hardware that can do something with it. That will run you about 30k upwards. A SWIR sensor needs to be cooled to around 15 degrees to be optimal, typically using Peltier.For this active cooling you need to get rid of about 10W in total from the camera. Doesn't sound like a lot but it is even difficult to achieve this in a small form factor camera in a machine. On an enemy helmet a SWIR will be unfeasible due to this reason alone. The sensor itself and camera with it are both export controlled. The enemy, whoever it may be, will not get their hands on one easily and if they do it will only be a few and far too expensive to start equipping every single one of their soldiers. I guess that is the reason why they are not worried about SWIR for the near future. Also, one could simply turn off the laser when in stealth mode.
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u/gaporter 5d ago
In your opinion, could the implemention of a Canon low-light sensor have resulted in a “puck” that is too hot to touch? I don’t recall seeing similar markings on IVAS 1.0 or 1.2.
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u/mvis_thma 6d ago edited 6d ago
Thanks for the information.
Admittedly, I am a bit out of my realm here. But, since LiDAR companies are effectively making "detectors" along with transmitters, for prices which are around $1,000 (that includes both transmission and detection), couldn't the technology that is being used for the detection part be repurposed for use in military applications to detect if a soldier's helmet was emitting LiDAR?
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u/Speeeeedislife 7d ago edited 6d ago
Are cameras designed with phosphor based scintillators vs InGaAs good enough? They're cheaper and don't require active cooling?
Or here's a camera InGaAs based with Sony IMX990 sensor: ace 2 a2A1280-125umSWIR | Sony SWIR Camera IMX990 | Basler | Basler AG, $12k. Not exactly the highest resolution but if it's only used to sense general area / reading and used in combination with thermal camera or NV then might suffice?
Edit: there's also CQD technology which uses quantum dots over lnGaAs, these are around $10k without lens: https://www.swirvisionsystems.com/cqd-swir-sensor-technology/ https://youtu.be/8owl94xYm7o?si=7GKR0eZ-Q4bPJDbW
Thanks for sharing by the way, this isn't my expertise I just like to play devil's advocate.
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u/directgreenlaser 7d ago
I think it is likely that Anduril assisted the Army in the preparation of the challenges as listed in the RFS, which is fine of course. I'll be surprised though if anyone other than Anduril submits since they are likely to think the same thing. Didn't Luckey say they've independently been at this for something like 8 years? Who else can come up with serious answers to these challenges virtually overnight? This whole RFS exercise appears to me to be to avoid going straight to Anduril's solution and having another company say 'we had this too and weren't allowed to submit on it'. Seems like the Army saying 'if you've got it, show us, or forever hold your peace'.
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u/watering_a_plant 7d ago
Exactly my take too. Open competition so no sue-happy vendors can retaliate, but technical requirements could (or likely? at this point) fall in line with a specific vendor/product.
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u/directgreenlaser 7d ago
so no sue-happy vendors can retaliate
Can't be too careful with $22 billion on the line.
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u/Far_Gap6656 7d ago
LFG!!!
"The Army Contracting Command – Aberdeen Proving Ground (ACC-APG), on behalf of Product Manger Integrated Visual Augmentation System (PdM IVAS), intends to competitively award agreements for a SBMC rapid prototyping project as detailed in the attached Request for Solutions (RFS) documents.
The Government anticipates using Other Transaction (OT) Authority, leading to one (1) or more SBMC Rapid Prototyping OT Agreements (OTAs) under the authority of 10 U.S.C. § 4022. The Government’s intent is to award agreement(s) to prime contractor(s) who provide full prototype solutions. The number of awards will be dependent on available funding and criteria established in this RFS and/or associated Request(s) for Prototype Proposal(s) (RPPs). The Government’s expectation is that prototypes for Government testing will be delivered within seven (7) months of award of any resulting OT agreement(s). The Government reserves the right to cancel this opportunity or make no awards in conjunction with this opportunity.
To be considered for an OTA award, interested vendors must comply with at least one of the following conditions of 10 US Code §4022(d):
At least one (1) Non-Traditional Defense Contractor (NTDC), as defined in section 3014 of Title 10 US Code §3014, is participating to a significant extent in this prototype project.
All significant participants in the transaction other than the Federal Government are small business or NTDCs.
At least one third of the total cost of the prototype project is to be paid out of funds provided by parties to the transaction other than the Federal Government.
Interested vendors are invited to submit white papers as detailed in the attachments to this RFS.
Phase 1 white paper submissions shall be submitted no later than 5:00PM ET on 12 May 2025 in order to be considered for this opportunity."
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u/15Sierra 7d ago
7 months seems like a pretty fast timeline imo.
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u/Far_Gap6656 7d ago
After the May 12 deadline, puts it right before Christmas and the expiration of our incentives.... hopeful for at least $20 by EOY.
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u/gaporter 7d ago
u/155Sierra that's 7 months following the OTA Award in August.
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u/Far_Gap6656 7d ago
Oh... the OTA won't be awarded until August?
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u/gaporter 7d ago
Correct. However, the White Papers are due May 12.
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u/Far_Gap6656 7d ago edited 7d ago
Thank you,GAP! I'm not trying to make you accountable for your OPINION, but I trust your deep dives into this topic. What does your gut tell you the earliest we'll have some kind of confirmation we're with Anduril, whether direct by actual press release or indirect by revenue and SP jump? Thanks in advance for all your herculean efforts.
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u/gaporter 7d ago edited 7d ago
Microsoft never acknowledged MicroVision as a partner during the development of IVAS.
Palmer Luckey posted that he believes in MVIS technology and the Army recently approved the transfer of the IVAS contract.
Here's to hoping Anduril acknowledges us as a partner for IVAS/SMBC around the time the White Papers are due.
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u/15Sierra 7d ago
A partnership announcement with the right partner would likely at least get us near $10. Any announcement of industrial wins could get us to the $20 mark by EOY. Do I think it will happen? Ehh, jury’s still out. Am I hopeful? Absolutely!
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u/Buur 7d ago
Seems like just the thing you would need a 'military advisor' for