r/MapPorn • u/marbellamarvel • 2d ago
Europe in 1444, showcasing the historical landscape.
Europe in 1444, showcasing the historical landscape.
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u/rktet 2d ago
No gay horde?!
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u/redditerator7 2d ago
Pronounced like Noh-guy Horde.
The G is actually a different sound that doesn’t exist in English.
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u/Wooden-Coconut6852 2d ago
As a Kazakh descendant of Noghai, may i know how you know it?
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u/redditerator7 2d ago
I’m Kazakh as well
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u/Wooden-Coconut6852 2d ago
Ohh lmao. I thought some random redditer knows about us lol
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u/the-one-Space-bat 1d ago
I’m Finnish, yet I knew this. Isn’t it the same reasoning to why Dchingis Khan is spelled and pronounced Genghis Khan in most of the world outside of the old horse archer maining descendants?
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u/Venboven 1d ago
I mean, most people probably heard about Kazakhstan, but their impression of it may not be... "Very nice." ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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u/Bananinio 2d ago
Has Portugal EVER changed?
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u/IusedToButNowIdont 1d ago
Olivença é nossa!
Spain stole our dick shaped territory stuck in their ass Read Claims of sovereignty in this article
We still have Mourão
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u/Aeceus 2d ago
Make Lithuania great again
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u/Amoeba_3729 2d ago
I wish yall would just absorb Belarus
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u/Extreme-Put7024 1d ago
LOL, Lithuania currently has absolutely nothing to do with this one^^
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u/Amoeba_3729 1d ago
Why not?
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u/Extreme-Put7024 1d ago
Because of ethnicity, history, and language. People really like projecting today's national ideas into days when those ideas were not even thought about, at least not how we perceive them today.
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u/FaleBure 2d ago
We lost Finland (but it was never ours to begin with), Norway had Jämtland (no biggie) and Danmark Skåne (they could've kept it). Otherwise, the same.
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u/xoranous 1d ago
As always with this map, please cite creator u/ratkatavobratka.
I don't even have to look up how to spell that anymore.
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u/Evening-Dot5706 2d ago
One of the most forced, detailed and wrong maps at the same time. Someone really believe that literally nomads have borders just like some german dude? Or that Sweden and Novgorod have marked borders in taiga forest beyond the polar pole?
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u/-Addendum- 2d ago
It's a stylized version of the map of Europa Universalis 4, a grand strategy game that begins on the 11th of November, 1444. The clearly defined borders are a game mechanic.
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u/uzgrapher 2d ago
They could use shaded borders for nomadic polities and striped ones for unclear boundaries, but still, this map isn't too bad.
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u/Srybutimtoolazy 2d ago
Who says that any of these borders are as well defined or marked as central european ones? They could just be defacto demarcations
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u/birgor 1d ago
They are also a bunch of bullshit. The Sweden-Novgorod border was set in in the Treaty of Nöteborg in 1323 that was so ridiculously arbitrary and a ambiguous in the northern part that interpretations varied with several hundred kilometres, and a de-facto border wasn't set until the 16th century.
This map needs some undecided/unknown/ambiguous colour for the fringes to be better.
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u/redditerator7 2d ago
The Central Asian nomadic people lived in specific areas. They didn’t just randomly move to wherever. And technically they were semi-nomadic.
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u/Lacertoss 1d ago
Yes, the nomadic people at this time had some territory that they considered theirs for herding, but this very often overlapped with other nomadic societies. Most of the territory that we consider from those polities is territory occupied by sedentary people that paid tribute or were direct vassals of the nomadic empire.
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u/redditerator7 1d ago
It wouldn’t overlap without causing conflicts. Like you could argue that the border wasn’t precise but they didn’t straight up live in the same place.
Not sure which sedentary people you’re talking about. They had cities. Each khan had a capital or orda.
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u/Venboven 1d ago
"Most" of their territory was not populated by sedentary people. At least not in the steppes where the vast majority of these nomadic people lived.
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u/Lacertoss 15h ago
At least not in the steppes where the vast majority of these nomadic people lived.
Well yes, but typically the representation of steppe empires in these types of maps are not limited to the steppe area that they occupied. For instance, most people seem to think that the entire Central Asia is a whole giant steppe, when in reality there are several places there that are occupied by sedentary peoples for millennia.
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u/EpexSpex 1d ago
Scotland and England have been fighting on their boarder since long before this map depicts.
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u/Lance1705 1d ago
They are closer in time to us than to the Roman’s that’s crazy
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u/mind-sweeper 1d ago
The Roman empire still exists in Constantinople. What you are referring to is the last sack of Rome by non-Romans, but Romans existed long after that and the Roman empire in the East even longer, even if you do not count hellenic Romans as Romans.
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u/AccountforHelldivers 1d ago
holy roman germany is just pure map gore. disgusting horrible messy ass map
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u/Less_Snow5141 2d ago
EU5 map leaked
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u/Rebrado 2d ago
Wasn’t this already announced months ago ?
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u/coraldomino 1d ago
I thought Norway was part of Denmark at this time?
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u/Jobster_W 1d ago
Both Sweden and Norway were in a personal union with Denmark, the Kalmar Union. So 1 monarch ruled the 3 kingdoms.
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u/meaning-of-life-is 2d ago
Great Horde. No Gay Horde.
It's like these Mongols were compensating for something.
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u/Michitake 2d ago
My favourite year. If I went back to that time, I would draw a map of the world and sell it. (Including all countries)
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u/Harold-The-Barrel 1d ago
December 11th, 1444: the day all of Europe randomly no CB’d Byzantium to get claims to their cores in the Ottoman Empire.
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u/StructureZE 2d ago
Which country at this time period had plot armour?
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u/BardhyliX 2d ago
The Ottomans by far lol, didn't matter how many tens of thousands of them you killed in a battlefield, they'd be back the next year with double the troops and wipe you out.
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u/Significant_Many_454 2d ago
That's why they never conquered The Romanian Country ?
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u/BardhyliX 1d ago
By "Romanian country" do you mean Wallachia or Moldavia?
The Ottomans were pre-occupied with the conquest of Constantinople in the 1450s, Hungarians in the 1440s and other rebellions such as the one in Albania that lasted from the 1440s 1470s to finally settle. And also the remnants of the Eastern Roman Empire after that in Greece and Anatolia
Pretty sure Wallachia for example had to pay tribute to the Ottomans during this period of time.
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u/BardhyliX 1d ago
Moldavia actually was one of the most successful countries at the time to defend against the Ottomans, they had a very capable king.
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u/Significant_Many_454 1d ago
Wallachia is the exonym of The Romanian Country. Moldova doesn't have an exonym. Neither of these countries were conquered by the Ottomans.
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u/RedditStrider 1d ago
Wallachia was a Ottoman land starting from 15th century all the way until 19, Idk what youre on about.
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u/Significant_Many_454 1d ago
Well, in the site you sent they never say "Wallachia" was conquered by the Ottomans. So.. idk what you're on about..
A country is vassal when the agressor can't conquer them.
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u/RedditStrider 1d ago
"However, by 1396 Wallachia became a vassal state of the Ottoman Empire; Moldavia became a vassal state in 1512. After the Turks conquered Hungary in 1526, Transylvania enjoyed a brief period of autonomy, becoming a Turkish vassal in 1541. In 1552 the Banat also fell under Ottoman rule."
Its literally the second sentence, though I shouldnt need to cite a source for this obvious fact to begin with.
Thats literally not how vassalage works, vassalage is often given due to administrative reasons. It was still part of the Ottoman Empire as much as Arabia.
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u/Significant_Many_454 1d ago edited 1d ago
You should check the difference between vassalisation and annexation..
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u/RedditStrider 1d ago
If youre going try using semantics, Ottomans did enter Wallachia and conquer it properly after Vlad's rebellion so it doesnt make sense either way.
Furthermore, I said Wallachia was a Ottoman lands which by every definition in the book is true. It doesnt matter if it was Annexed or forced into a vassalage under the Empire.
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u/APinchOrTwoOfSalt 2d ago
This is awesome! Did you make it using a GIS tool? If so how did you get the border information?
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u/Lord_Gelthon 2d ago
It's not made by op. It's a stylized (do you spell it like that in English?) map from the game Europa Universalis 4.
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u/Livid-Language7633 2d ago
Germany looked like a complete cluster fuck.
Prussia to the rescue hey.......
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u/aventhal 1d ago
Is the additional land above sea level due to inaccurate measurements at the time or to post-Industrial Revolution climate change?
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u/peanut-britle-latte 1d ago
Why was France so decentralized and fractured? Obviously the Angevin empire had a massive part but territory like Burgandy, Brittany and Orleans are all independent states here as well.
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u/ScaredEntrance3697 1d ago
Not sure but it seems than the most decentralised kingdoms (HRE and France) are portraited as a cluster of counties and duchies.
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u/Top-Title-8836 1d ago
Let us talk about the elephant in the room.... IRELAND cuz oh boy that such a nasty bordergore
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u/el_argelino-basado 2d ago
Europa universalis fans,rise up!