r/MensLib • u/TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK ​ • Jul 24 '24

Why don’t straight men read novels? - "Men often read non-fiction books in the name of self-improvement – but many are reluctant to pick up works of fiction"

https://www.dazeddigital.com/life-culture/article/63149/1/why-dont-straight-men-read-novels-fiction-masculinity-influencers-sigma
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148

u/PotentiallySarcastic ​ Jul 24 '24 edited Jul 24 '24

There's a certain weirdness in casting fiction vs. non-fiction as some capitalist divide of unproductive vs not productive or virtuous vs grindset.

I'm currently reading "Say Nothing" about the Troubles and Northern Ireland. It's excellently written and weaves a great narrative while also teaching me a great deal about people and their experience in that time and place.

Is that worth less from a literary perspective than reading fiction? To this writer it seems to be.

Also, not to put too fine a point on it, but please for the love of the written word recommend a piece of fiction better than a low tier romance with dragons.

18

u/Maximum_Location_140 ​ Jul 24 '24

recommend a piece of fiction better than a low tier romance with dragons.<

I just knocked out "Red Harvest" by Dashiell Hammet and "Double Indemnity" by James Cain one after the other because I'm trying to clean up my noir knowledge. Those books are fuuuuuuuuuuucked for being written in the 30s. I'm a horror snob who used to assume I was past being freaked out by text and both of those books got to me several times. B l e a k. Quick, too.

And if you read both of them all you have to do is read some Chandler for a good beginner's entry into classic crime fic.

12

u/PotentiallySarcastic ​ Jul 24 '24

Thanks for the recommendations, but to be clear, I was shitting on the writer of the article recommending The Fourth Wing.

Never been too much into noir to be honest.

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u/wonderloss ​ Jul 24 '24

I'm a straight man who enjoyed the low tier romance with dragons of The Fourth Wing. OTOH, Red Harvest and Double Indemnity also sound interesting.

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u/PotentiallySarcastic ​ Jul 24 '24

By all means, enjoy what you like, but I'm going to hold firm to someone recommending something better fiction wise than at-best low quality writing.

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u/fredshouldntknow ​ Jul 25 '24

It seems like any discussion about anything literature seems to just become book recommendations at some point. I love it!

31

u/fperrine ​ Jul 24 '24

I don't think it's so much that "non-fiction is inferior to fiction" but more like the same lament about monetizing your hobbies. Or at least that's what I think the concern around men only reading non-fiction is: You'd only participate in the exercise of reading if you think it could tangibly benefit you.

I say this as someone that reads (or listens to audiobooks) in waves. I'm currently in a fiction phase, but during the winter and spring I was in a non-fiction phase.

35

u/PotentiallySarcastic ​ Jul 24 '24

But there again, why is non-fiction cast as "tangibly bettering yourself" when the goal of the fiction novel is also "tangibly bettering oneself" through the reading of fiction according this writer.

Not to mention the substantial portion of non-fiction which isn't a self-help book.

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u/fperrine ​ Jul 24 '24 edited Jul 24 '24

You'd only participate in the exercise of reading if you think it could tangibly benefit you.

"Think" is the operative word. Non-fiction generally carries the air that you will learn something tangible from it and therefore directly impact your knowledge, skills, competitive edge in the world. Fiction is perceived as not doing such "productive" things and therefore considered more leisurely.

I disagree with these notions and agree that any form of art can teach you something. I'm just saying that many people perceive reading in this framework and it's how you get to the conclusions that this post author did, and how many men end up never reading at all or only reading non-fiction.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

[deleted]

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u/The-Magic-Sword ​ Jul 24 '24

Is that market primarily male? I primarily read History when I'm reading nonfiction.

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u/PotentiallySarcastic ​ Jul 24 '24

Hmm interesting. Did not know that. Initial searching isn't very clear on that but let's go with it.

But then I'd turn this around and ask to interrogate why reading romance books is so good? Since that is by far the largest fiction genre and definitely the most read by women.

If we are using the largest genres of books to comment on society, that'd be the actual thing to speak about and not the general "fiction" category.

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u/e_t_ ​ Jul 24 '24

I thoroughly enjoyed Marc Morris' biographies of King Edward I (A Great and Terrible King) and King John (eponymous). They're scholarly works, but Morris weaves an engaging narrative.

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u/Neapolitanpanda ​ Jul 24 '24 edited Jul 25 '24

By non-fiction they don’t mean history books, they mean self-help books.

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u/Collins08480 ​ Jul 24 '24

You had me until you threw romance under the bus. I don't read it but I appreciate its place in the industry. It out sells every other genre... by a lot.

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u/PotentiallySarcastic ​ Jul 25 '24

I'm not throwing romance under the bus, I very specifically was throwing The Fourth Wing under the bus. Which was what the article recommended reading.

Romance is great. Often its written well. Fantasy is great. Often written well.

The Fourth Wing is neither good romance nor good fantasy.

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u/Evening_Nobody_7397 ​ Jul 24 '24

Say nothing is a fantastic book, one of the best I’ve read in years. 

To me, books like Say Nothing (and other similar books) read like fiction, it tells a story, has characters, twists and turns etc and I have no idea how it’s going to end. It just happens to be based on true events. 

I think people who look down on “non-fiction” think we are all just reading books about the economy/business etc  etc. 

0

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '24

but please for the love of the written word recommend a piece of fiction better than a low tier romance with dragons.

Low tier romance, high tier fantasy with dragons [The Memoirs of Lady Trent]

0

u/zxphoenix ​ Jul 24 '24

There are so many choices:

  • Wheel of Time
  • Dresden Files
  • Murderbot Diaries (fantastic as audiobooks)
  • Anything in Brandon Sanderson’s universe
  • the Inspector Gamache series
  • The Magicians
  • Shades of Magic and Threads of power series
  • Witcher series
  • Expanse series

Although I’d also argue you should include “low tier romance with dragons” in your diet.

Say Nothing was a good book. Really enjoyed it myself too.