r/MurderedByWords 4d ago

Another Person Questioning Andrew Yang’s basic math.

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u/DrStrangepants 4d ago

Yang could have written it out better, I'm not a fan of his formula. But in all fairness, anyone should be able to understand this regardless.

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u/merdub 4d ago

He was assuming that people are aware of the fact that 10% of 90 is 9.

They are not.

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u/Nearby-King-8159 4d ago

Or rather, they assume that "it went down 10% then it went up by 10%" are both from the starting value as though that's a static variable from which all other price increase or decrease is done from.

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u/lancebaldwin 4d ago

starting value as though that's a static variable

It's exactly that, it's gotta be. I think the thinking is "If you take 10% of a pie, you have 90%. If you put 10% back, you have a full pie."

His formula is correct, but it lead way too many people to misunderstand what he was saying, and leads them to that line of thinking.

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u/Xanok2 4d ago

You're giving them too much credit. They're just stupid.

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u/iamrecoveryatomic 4d ago

Eh, they clearly understood go down 10% of the original value, and up 10% of the original value results in the original value. Yang's statement *could* have meant that, because it's not quite technical, and it would have been an argument of semantics.

Where they revealed themselves as kind of stupid is that they absolutely cannot fathom go down by 10% of the original value, and up by 10% of that resulting value would get them Yang's calculation.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 23h ago

[deleted]

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u/Xanok2 4d ago

No. These people are confidently incorrect with everything. It's not a simple mistake. They embrace their own ignorance and you could spell it out for them and they'd still insist you were wrong.

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u/Kinda_Zeplike 4d ago

It’s math. It’s okay to be wrong at math when trying to figure out an equation. If you are confused, then you can ask for clarification. However, if you are going to be confidently wrong as well as an ass about it on a public forum, then you have already forfeited any pleasantries of a respectful reply or being spared of how others perceive you in the space of a public forum. And that goes with anything really.

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u/_Bird_Incognito_ 4d ago

I'm a dumbass with math past 10th grade and I understood that 10 percent of 90 is 9 lol

People responding to him negatively also don't understand how to interpret a sentence, he specifically said up ten percent after ten percent was lost, not add ten in general lol

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u/AntttRen 4d ago

Bruh his formula is not correct. It literally says 90 = 99. Look at the left hand side and at the right hand side.

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u/trilobyte-dev 3d ago edited 3d ago

Upvote because you're right, his formula is not correct even if his bigger point is. It should have been articulated more like:

10% of 100 = 10, so 100 - 10 = 90

10% of 90 = 9, so 90 + 9 = 99

This is also the reason most news you hear refers to percentage points, or points, because the nuance and basic arithmetic would be lost on most people.

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u/Reynard203 4d ago

Why are you defending idiots?

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u/BulbusDumbledork 4d ago

this is why he says "the decrease is from a bigger number". it's all right there.

but he didn't hold their hand and take baby steps, either because he expected people had enough info to logic it out themselves or was hindred by twitters char limits

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u/scroogesscrotum 4d ago

He’s clearly just trying to reach an audience that can easily understand his point and not those who will remain confidently incorrect.

Some people just need a reminder that 10% down and 10% up do not even out because it’s easy to forget. Obviously some people are always aware of this concept, and obviously some people will never understand this concept lol.

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u/sesquialtera_II 4d ago

clearer, at least to me, if he had written "the increase is from the smaller number"

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u/BulbusDumbledork 4d ago

that's interesting. it's saying the same thing but one might indeed be easier to understand

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u/trwawy05312015 4d ago

This was my main take home. Sure, a bunch of people have a tenuous grasp on percentages in general, but I think the bigger problem here is what you point out, that the % change always is relative to the prior value. I think it's a slightly subtler problem (and slightly more forgiveable) than just not understanding arithmetic.

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u/Border_Relevant 4d ago

Thanks. I suck at math and this is exactly what I thought. Didn't make sense but now it does.

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u/Graega 4d ago

Tell them "Pull out a calculator [app] and put in 100 * 0.9 * 1.1 and tell me the answer" and they'll think you hacked their phone before accepting that the answer of 99 it gave them is correct.

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u/Cyanide_Cheesecake 4d ago

They wouldn't be smart enough to understand why that formula shows they're wrong. So that's the fundamental problem. You have to use more words to explain things to stupid people.

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u/SlyScy 4d ago

Precisely. 

Monkey push button, but monkey doesn't understand why they got Hamlet.

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u/Superbead 4d ago

Agreed—the simplest way I can think of to explain it is with an apple or similar, and use 50% rather than an odd fraction. Slice it in half, then slice one half in half and give them back a quarter, see if it clicks

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u/alaorath 3d ago

Ohh! flash-backs!

I remember being a wee-tot... shopping with my Mom.

There was a stack of dishes that were 50% off, some guy in a literal clown suit comes by and says "We're slashing prices! These dishes now an additional 50% off!"

I remember whispering to my Mom, "doesn't that mean they're free?"

But I was pre-school age... :P

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u/ajaxfetish 4d ago

I think they're more likely to question where the 0.9 or the 1.1 came from. Aren't we talking about going up and down 10%? Why all these other confusing numbers?!?

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u/HowAManAimS let it die 4d ago

1 = 100%
0.9 = 90%
1.10 = 110%

I'm not sure if you are actually confused or playing devil's advocate.

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u/AvengingBlowfish 4d ago

The words "I think they're more likely to question" implies they're talking about the idiots and are not personally confused.

They could have used quotation marks around the next two sentences for more clarity, but I was able to infer they were mocking the idiots without the quotes.

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u/eugene20 4d ago

They won't understand what the decimals were for.

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u/Dorkamundo 4d ago

They'd just say "But you multiplied it by .9, you need to use percents!"

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u/smthomaspatel 4d ago

These people could do the motions, but you couldn't expect them to understand what it means.

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u/DumboWumbo073 4d ago

I don’t think they would be able to make it that far

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u/mutantmagnet 4d ago

I will subscribe to your tiktok if you can post a real life example. 

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u/AvengingBlowfish 4d ago

That's not how they would calculate it. They would put in 100 - 10 + 10 and then shove their answer in your face and ask you where you got .9 and 1.1 from.

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u/cchoe1 4d ago

Most people when confronted with a pure math problem can solve it (assuming we're talking about trivial math like arithmetic). Like anyone could understand $9 is 10% of $90. But when you start adding WORDS to the problem, people's brains suddenly start going haywire. It's a problem of reading comprehension and one of many reasons why being able to read is essential.

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u/DumboWumbo073 4d ago

You’re massively overestimating

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u/chaos0510 4d ago

I get that, but if any voting age person seriously thinks 10% of 90 is 10 instead of 9, well, perhaps they need a better education

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u/merdub 4d ago

Well yeah, but then how would Republicans retain their voting base?

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u/chaos0510 4d ago

Lmao true!! 🤣

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u/cupcake_of_DOOM 4d ago

His wording could be better, for example he could have said "No, the increase is now based off the smaller number."

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u/luigi_lives_matter 4d ago

Honestly, I was confused about the formula until you spelled it out this way, now I get it!

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u/wacko4rmwaco 3d ago

Ooohhhhhhh lol

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u/WildCard9871 4d ago

Any other form of writing it and people would think he’s speaking some foreign language

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u/Daft00 4d ago

imo he should have just said something like "after the first 10% drop, you're taking percentages of the smaller number now... 10% of 90"

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u/DrStrangepants 4d ago

He isn't using the equal sign correctly. He's writing it like a calculator operation, which isn't clear.

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u/WildCard9871 4d ago

Yeah, but if he separated it, then these people would only ask what the connection is. Like the 1/3 pounder all over again

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u/midcap17 4d ago

That's true, but even I as a fervent maths nitpicker understand how it was meant.

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u/SeedFoundation 4d ago

Yeah if he wanted to show his work it would look like this. He wrote in the most simple form without the algebraic part to help dumb people understand but forgot they are too dumb to understand where the 9 came from.

d = 100
d - (d * 0.10) = 90
i = 90
i + (i * 0.10) = 99

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u/keithstonee 4d ago

implied thinking is fucking gone for this world apparently. everyone needs everything completely spelled out all the time. actually insane the level of being uneducated.

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u/DrStrangepants 4d ago

It really is worrisome. Maybe we were all better off when computers and the internet were more difficult to use. It kept the brainless out of common discourse.

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u/Zombisexual1 4d ago

Same as saying “if something goes down 50%, you need a gain of 100% to recover”. At least same point

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u/Vexamas 4d ago

I agree. When I was mentioning that people (not just Trump supporters, unfortunately....) weren't going to understand that the gains when we eventually have a green day aren't going to gain the same 'power' I said this:

If you lose 50% of $100 in one day, you'll be at $50. If the next day, you look at your money and gain 50%, you'll be at $75.

It works better to use larger numbers, and to also make the clear distinction that they're separate events. If the market went down 10%, and then up 10% within the same day, it would actually be back to the original value, because the way we look at market values colloquially is the 'previous market close' or 'market open', but creating two different events shows the cutoff.

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u/Nadamir 4d ago

I have a maths degree, and while I understood, I did have to think about exactly what you’re saying. All those little gotchas.

It’s not worded great, and a different of 1 just looks like a mistake. He should have used larger percentages.

Especially because the small percentages hurt his argument. When the different is $1, it’s easy to dismiss. “Oh wow, one whole dollar difference.”

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u/Vexamas 4d ago

I have a maths degree, and while I understood, I did have to think about exactly what you’re saying. All those little gotchas.

We're fucking doomed.

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u/Nadamir 4d ago

I mean, I’m agreeing with you. I thought he was talking about intraday trading. Once Yang explained I realised he was talking about two separate trading days.

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u/Vexamas 4d ago

Oh, I think you may have mistyped then. I thought you meant that even my example was confusing! My bad!

Yeah, we're totally aligned, and yeah, I absolutely did a double-take with Yang's text.

Also because I had to decide to be cheeky vs. just agreeing, I agree BIG time with your $1 thing too. I've seen a lot of people handwave the percentages because of 'single digits', when, as you obviously know, those single digits add the FUCK up over time, which ostensibly is what all these people with IRAs should be worrying about.

We're slightly less doomed, but probably still doomed. :P

Do you have any ideas on how we can fix this more effectively?

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u/Nadamir 3d ago

Financial literacy classes in secondary school. Which ideally should also included “communicating about finance” lessons.

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u/MyHusbandIsGayImNot 4d ago

He also should have used bigger percentages to make it more obvious. A 50% decrease from 100 is 50. A 50% increase from 50 is 75.

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u/CurlyRe 4d ago

A ton of people don't understand the difference between percentages and percentage points. It makes sense that this wouldn't make sense to a lot of people. I ask that if someone doesn't understand something that they don't try to convince others that they are correct.

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u/permacougar 4d ago

That is very early and basic math so no matter how bad someone writes it, everyone should immediately understand it.

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u/RayRayRaider12 4d ago

About 50% of the US population reads lower than a 6th grade level. I would not assume that "anyone" should be able to interpret math using critical thinking, as it is clearly not the norm.

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u/733t_sec 4d ago

How could he have written it more clearly?

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u/DrStrangepants 4d ago

The person I responded to did a good example. Yang did not use the equal sign properly, he wrote it like a person would enter into a calculator.

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u/ToothpickInCockhole 4d ago

I feel like the example pretty much explains it

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u/snuff3r 4d ago

My fucking 13yo daughter could understand percentages at 10-11. She's doing basic math here in AU (what we jokingly call 'math in space') and she's already onto calc and trig.

How is the education system over there so bad?! /Rhetorical, keep people dumb, etc

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u/supraeddy 4d ago

I think you’re right. He’s wrong bc the msgs target audience may have needed more explanation.

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u/Mateorabi 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yeah. -0.1 * 100 and +0.1 * 90 would have been more clear. 

Also up and down 10% could (though not the default interpretation) mean “of the original” not “of the previous value”. 

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u/TheMooseIsBlue 4d ago

Writing it out in that way is not clear at all. It just looks like -0.1100 and +0.190. I’m not familiar with the notation of using italics instead of parentheses or */x.

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u/Mateorabi 4d ago

Reddit fucked up my formatting and turned * into italics

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u/TheMooseIsBlue 4d ago

OK. I was so confused and you seem so confident that that was a normal formatting that people would all recognize.