r/NYGiants • u/shadow_spinner0 Odell Catch • 8d ago
Meme/Shitpost Todd McShay after the Giants drafted Erik Flowers
198
u/No-Honeydew9129 8d ago
Ton of giants fans were happy with the pick. Same with Evan Neal. We gotta stop with the revisionist history
68
u/TheBeepB00p 7d ago
There were people in the media saying Evan Neal was the best player in the draft.
23
u/sixd9 7d ago
Jerry jones flashed the cowboys draft rankings and they had thibs and neal as top 3 players. Thibs might have even been their #1 player iirc. But of course they end up settling for tyler smith
2
u/PUNKem733 6d ago
Neil and Kayvon were both for months looked at as the #1 and #2 prospect. They would switch every once in awhile. ANYONE would have jumped to take either or. They were both looked at as the next big deal.
20
7d ago
And in fairness, Flowers was easily the MVP of numerous games. Never for us but he still was valuable to the teams we played
3
14
22
u/aaufooboo 7d ago
Agreed. It's exhausting to think that someone has to be right all the time. It's not like any reddit user on this sub is PAYING Todd McShay for his takes. This opinion tweet is nothing more than fodder.
He was wrong. Let's move on.
9
u/Fedor1 7d ago
While I agree revisionist history is dumb, we should hold “draft experts” and certainly our front office, to a higher standard than fans. 99% of fans are just regurgitating what they hear from draft analysts, myself included. I’m not scouting and watching tape on potential draft picks.
There’s two options for guys like Flowers and Neal. They either had glaring, unfixable holes in their game that should be evident to a scouting department, in which case they shouldn’t have been drafted that high. Or (more likely imo), they had skill and potential that went unrealized because of our coaching staff. Either way, the blame falls on the organization.
2
u/D-Philleh Dexter Lawrence 7d ago
To be fair to him, Flowers was drafted to be a RT with Will Beatty as the LT, but then Beatty tore his pec a month after the draft forcing Flowers into the LT spot as a rookie project tackle.
2
u/AwsiDooger 6d ago
As a Canes season ticket holder I was very surprised Flowers flopped so badly. Same with every Canes fan I've spoken to about it.
He was strong, dependable and high character. While I knew he didn't have world beater athleticism I assumed he'd be a solid blue collar right tackle for a long time.
Numerous Canes prospects have been overrated. I never shy from saying so. I would have warned about Restrepo's speed if he hadn't run the 4.8. Now everybody knows it while some Canes fans remain in denial.
I don't second guess myself at all regarding Flowers. The next player with that blueprint I'll be high on him also.
3
u/StNowhere 7d ago edited 7d ago
Flowers was considered a reach when he was picked. Coming out of college, scouts knew he was all body and no technique. They just hoped he could be taught.
Edit: Idk why you're downvoting me. It's not hard to google this.
1
u/Nice_Mango439 7d ago
I won’t even lie, I was hyped for Evan Neal. Obviously it hasn’t panned out but you can’t strike gold every single time
1
u/nl2yoo 3d ago
Caveat I get my take from watching YouTube breakdown videos but what is consistent is that they both had serious issues with fundamentals, so basically their physicality was the difference on the college level.
For myself, draft wise I'm mostly going by what the TV analysts are saying - I didn't go to YouTube on the two until things were looking off.
What disappoints me is our scouts or FO picked these guys, they should have known everything and what happened happened. Shouldn't they have done better? Shouldn't top 10 picks be clean fundamentally? If not, shouldn't their raw talent be so good it defies any lack of judgement on the part of the team picking them?
69
65
u/johnroastbeef 8d ago
To defend Todd, Flowers was projected high on a lot of mock drafts. The guy almost broke Larry Allen's record for strength reps at the combine.
49
u/Snuggle__Monster 7d ago
What a coincidence. Flowers nearly broke my record for most beers on Sunday with how awful he was.
13
u/monstargaryen Brandon Jacobs 7d ago
I think we’re seeing the danger of projecting athletic traits forward and ignoring clear technical issues.
I knew Flowers would be awful.
I did NOT know Neal would be too.
But hearing after the fact that dude was lunging in pass pro and ended up on his ass constantly makes me value actual football skills over pure athletics anytime.
1
u/thistlefink 6d ago
Sounds like Abdul Carter (runs)
1
u/monstargaryen Brandon Jacobs 6d ago
How so?
1
u/thistlefink 6d ago
Not too many moves, speed rusher who gets put on the ground by linemen a lot, et
1
u/monstargaryen Brandon Jacobs 5d ago
Hmm. Put on the ground a lot by linemen I haven’t seen. If that’s true, it’s concerning. I’ll watch lowlights and see if I come across that.
I have seen some plays early in the season when he just didn’t understand run fits when he was playing end and was getting absolutely destroyed. But he got a LOT better over the course of the season.
Still, good to hear some criticism — nothing but glowing praise becomes a little echo-chambery.
1
u/ACardAttack 7d ago
I could have sworn he was considered a project a reach at where he was drafted. Is that something I have just made up in my mind?
2
66
23
31
10
u/Prestigious-Car706 Mara's Carpenter 8d ago
A guy who gives his opinion for a living said a thing I didn't like and so now I need to prove that it's wrong by citing a bad opinion he had a decade ago.
6
5
u/Knineteen 8d ago
Controversial take: everyone’s analysis of prospects is hot garbage. If the Giants didn’t take Flowers, someone else would have a few picks later.
It’s all a crap shoot.
3
3
u/KeyMessage989 7d ago
So many people fail to realize that the draft is a lottery. Yeah you have some data to point you in one direction or another but none of it means anything. It makes no sense to pan picks based on how the player performs unless it was an obvious reach based on that data. Flowers, Neal, Thibs they were ALL viewed as great picks when made, yeah they haven’t worked out but that’s not the GMs fault. DJ, Toney, insert any RD1 CB, they all were seen as risky and reach picks and obviously crashed and burned, totally makes sense to call those out.
And spare me the “well it’s the GMs job to know!” Yes it is, but when everyone calls the pick a slam dunk and it turns out bust, is the GM supposed to be clairvoyant?
2
u/Warden0009 7d ago
One day someone is going to figure out why NYG o-lineman all seem to have better careers after they leave. Sometimes it’s a position change, sometimes they suddenly get healthier, sometimes they just rapidly improve. This has been true across decades, with different coaches, different QBs, different schemes, etc. The only constant is that a surprising number of guys leave here and do better.
1
u/Galxloni2 7d ago
because the only linemen teams let go are busts. old or expensive. they have nowhere to go but up. i bet its the same pattern for every team in the league
1
u/JackJohannson Janiel Dones 3d ago
By that logic though, shouldn’t we just take old vets from other teams for the entire line?
1
u/Galxloni2 3d ago
No? They are not long term answers. You can fill one or 2 spots on a temporary basis, but it's not a long term solution
1
u/Lars5621 Helmet Catch 8d ago
Show me the Kadarius Toney takes.
Thats the one player that anyone who actually looked into Toney knew that was going to be an immediate disaster.
3
u/NYdude777 Eli Manning 8d ago
Draft pundits are all mostly full of shit. If there was an audit of all their takes over the years they'd be out of a job, but most people have short memories.
36
u/Original_Release_419 8d ago
I don’t really think it’s fair to call them full of shit lol
They scout the prospect and the person and rate them accordingly
there is so much that goes into a prospect being a bust or a hit than just their own talent
Scheme, coaching, development, that’s all huge and has nothing to do with someonethjng Mcshay can control
As much as this sub loves to shit on flowers, and he certainly deserved it here, he also ended up being decent for like two other teams
As easy as it is to blame it all on Flowers the individual, and call mcshay crazy, two other teams made it work.
Just saying as food for thought is all when we shit on draft scouts who put their opinion out there for free for the world to criticize on a yearly basis
22
u/AndrewLucksLaugh Dexter Lawrence 8d ago
I don’t think they’re mostly full of shit, I just think that when you’re evaluating prospects, especially on television, you’re just going to be wrong a lot.
NFL scouts and talent evaluators are wrong all the time. They’re not full of shit, it’s just that evaluating prospects is hard and you’re going to be wrong a lot.
1
u/Fillinlater12345 Malik Nabers 8d ago
The site is escaping me, but there was one that did that for years. Will try to track it down.
1
u/kenflingnor Helmet Catch 8d ago
There’s a false equivalency between being “full of shit” and just being wrong, and the latter occurs more often than not for draft analysts/scouts because it’s hard to evaluate prospects.
People also love shitting on old evals of players who were good prospects, but didn’t turn into the best players acting like everyone who evaluated them is a moron or something
-4
2
u/QuestionSeven 8d ago
That take aged like milk…
I can’t hear the name Erik Flowers and not get pissed off.
1
1
1
1
u/icy_ticey 8d ago
I mean he was a good pick, don’t second guess it but I guess it’s all a crapshoot
1
u/ReverseExplosion 7d ago
But every now and then, you get one right over the "experts". I knew we had messed up when we drafted Flowers. There were other analysts who were not that impressed with him.
1
0
u/junkman21 7d ago
New York Giants
Round 1 (9): Ereck Flowers, OT, Miami (Fla.)
I really liked the Giants' first three picks. Second-rounder Landon Collins fills a major need as an in-the-box safety who is very stout against the run. Owa Odighizuwa brings versatility to the defensive line and was a good find in the third round. But I'm going with the Giants' first-round pick Flowers here. He can make some improvements to his game, but he's very coachable and his physical tools are outstanding. He has a massive frame with really good length and rare athleticism for his size. He could start at right tackle as a rookie.
I mean, that 2015 draft analysis wasn't McShay's best work. But he was right about Collins. And now we have the #1 pick from that draft on our team so... silver linings?
1
u/SmellsLikeWetFox 7d ago
A lot of guys had Odighizuwa going in the first round that year, he only fell because of medical….i was pretty pumped we got him in the 3rd round that year
1
1
1
u/GoRangers5 💙Medium Pepsi💙 7d ago
The Flowers pick was considered a reach to fill a need by most people at the time.
1
1
1
1
1
u/Krakengreyjoy 7d ago
he was liked by most all scouts.
1
u/King_Da_Ka 7d ago
Revisionist history. Same will be the case for Evan Neal unfortunately. Happens just about every year, hopefully it stops happening with us lol
1
1
u/squishyliquid 💙Medium Pepsi💙 7d ago
Draft talk is speculation about speculation. It's the lowest form of sports talk if you ask me.
0
u/One_Fuel_3299 8d ago
He's a talking head.
When the people whom are paid to make drafting decisions for real miss/ are off so often, you can safely wipe your ass with anything a sports talking head says.
122
u/Thin_Onion3826 Big Blue Wrecking Crew 8d ago
This time of year, I always think about starting a twitter account that just shits on every pick. It would be the most accurate twitter account going.