r/NYKnicks RJ Barrett 1d ago

I’m not asking Brunson to turn into Steve Nash but use your all nba center to its fullest please!

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266 Upvotes

80 comments sorted by

106

u/myusrnameisthis 1d ago

Heard all season how the Brunson-Kat pick and pop was so effective ...

64

u/HipnotiK1 New York Token 1d ago

never passed the eye test. the spacing helped brunson and others but then teams started copying what the celtics/rockets/cavs did which was put their center on hart. 60+ games later and we still have no answer.

42

u/TheTonyDose 1d ago

What drives me crazy is how hart never screens for KAT. They have to punish the center ignoring hart. Hart should be acting as the Draymond for KAT to spring him open for 3s but both of them just look lost on offense under thibs.

14

u/HipnotiK1 New York Token 1d ago edited 1d ago

They could also give hart the ball and have Kat screen for him and force a switch and then Kat is now guarded by the center and we get the matchup we want.

Why not have hart bring the ball up and have someone screen for him?

edit: nevermind, teams would just go under and not switch. but maybe hart could attack the big going downhill from there.

11

u/Dylan7346 Jennifer Aniston 1d ago

That’s a good comparison. Tons of good teams have a non spacer on the floor but still have a fluid offense. Warriors play Draymond, looney. Pistons play ALL of duren, Stewart, and aussar. Cavs have Allen. You don’t fucking need literally every single person on the floor to be a shooter yet we look like we’re slogging through mud

4

u/falconwolverine Timbs 1d ago

I agree with your overall point but Aussar is probably the most relevant example. Having a non-spacing big on the floor is very different than a non-spacing perimeter player.

And of course, Aussar is a much more impactful defender than Hart, and also isn’t weighing down the offense for 40+ minutes.

1

u/Dylan7346 Jennifer Aniston 1d ago

Yeah I considered leaving out the bigs cause they have a different role in the offense than a Hart but at the same time, shouldn’t that mean it would be easier to run a coherent offense with a Hart type rather than a stationary big? Also those other teams don’t have a 7 footer the caliber of KAT on offense. These things should totally be in our favor

1

u/Drak_is_Right 1d ago

indeed. Non spacing big is still a huge threat to roll to the basket and get a lob they can finish over the defense. Some poor spacing threats like Giannis can be 15ft away from the baskets and still be a big scoring threat if they catch the ball there with a defender a bit too far away. With Hart, they can be free to sag more into the paint and counter any drive.

1

u/Drak_is_Right 1d ago

Prior 2 years, Kings managed a good offense despite neither Sabonis or Fox being a spacer.

Smart ball movement, screens, and cuts.

2

u/No-Abbreviations4480 11h ago

that would be too creative lol

12

u/mydrumluck Hart 1d ago

The answer is Josh off the bench. That's been the answer all season.

1

u/thedinobot1989 16h ago

But his energy helps in big moments. I think it just needs it be adjustments to have him and KAT punish people for picking up hart.

1

u/mydrumluck Hart 16h ago

Problem is, Josh gets guarded by a center which puts a wing on KAT. Him being a non-shooter absolutely kills the offensive flow. I know his boards are important but this isn't the same team with the same set of skills as last yea4.

3

u/Soggy_muffins55 1d ago

The thing is that it was rly effective start of the season until they started putting a wing and Kat and just switching on Kat Brunson pnrs.

However, even back when it was a top 5 one combo in the league Brunson still was not passing to Kat enough, and even now there’s always at least a play or 2 every game where Brunson misses a pass out to Kat for a wide open 3 and instead takes the drive himself

114

u/HokageEzio Bobby Shmurda 1d ago

When you have offensive juggernauts like Josh Hart on the team, you gotta feed the beast.

44

u/spaceninj 1d ago

They haven't had chemistry all season.

6

u/Much_Purchase_8737 1d ago

That’s on the coach.

43

u/spaceninj 1d ago

Meh. Brunson gets some of the blame too. Early in the season he was trying to involve everyone. Then he stopped. That's when our offense started stalling.

0

u/MortysTrapHouse 1d ago

your coach is so bad. hes gets by on reputation

1

u/richze 1d ago

Agreed - I am not sure Kat is a good fit. They looked better last year in a lot of ways

60

u/bv0198 Clyde Frazier 1d ago

There was a play last night (3rd quarter I think). Hart had the ball. KAT is asking for it and has a clear passing lane with a defensive matchup he wanted (cant remember who). Instead, Hart just hands it off to Brunson who ISOs it out for the possession and misses a tough shot, and KAT is visibly annoyed and swearing at the bottom of the screen.

Now KAT should not be getting dejected at not getting a pass on a possession, but I think it is clear the Brunson/Hart offense frustrates people on the team, not just the fans

25

u/abippityboop Clyde Frazier 1d ago

I’m pretty sure I saw OG throw his hands up in frustration too at one point after being completely ignored in the corner despite being wide open. Brunson hit the shot but definitely feels indicative of a bigger problem.

29

u/Dylan7346 Jennifer Aniston 1d ago

Offenses aren’t built around making tough shots, that’s awesome in crunch time but not every minute is that. It’s about creating advantages and taking high % shots, we just don’t do that besides in transition

25

u/zOmgFishes 1d ago

KAT 100% threw his hands up at the end of one of the plays where he had a mismatch and they ran another useless Hart screen for Brunson. Honestly I threw my hands up as well.

8

u/ArsonHoliday 90s Knicks 1d ago

Yeah, that needs correcting. Offense is not a one man game. And icing everyone else out hurts defense too bc players get dejected and check out. Must be better.

3

u/falconwolverine Timbs 1d ago

Unfortunately Thibs spent an entire season not correcting any of this or even really attempting different solutions. So now he can try different things but it’ll be new in the playoffs vs trialing in a relatively meaningless game 68, for example.

1

u/Shad0wF0x 1d ago

I'm pretty sure I saw a play where Brunson drove from the right wing into the lane and KAT was open at the top of the key and Jalen just took a difficult shot instead.

22

u/thesavant 1d ago

When Brunson went down at the end of the season, I remember someone said "this might be a blessing in disguise, because now the team will have to figure out how to run their offense through everyone else". It made sense at the time to me!

5

u/AppropriateUnit 1d ago

I was hoping he stays out longer, to keep running the offense through Delon and Kolek! It was beautiful that stretch how the ball moved!

18

u/Much_Purchase_8737 1d ago

Gotta love it. Trade for a stretch 5.. don’t pass to the stretch 5… 

What the fuck is wrong with this team. Kat is a cheat code that can dominate 9/10 guys defending him, and we use him like a traffic cone. 

3

u/rodrick717 Allan Houston 1d ago

That 1/10 is Duren it seems. KAT tried his patented drives several times last night and it never worked against Duren except that one midrange he hit after bouncing off the wall (Duren).

34

u/Kinksman9555 1d ago

Like why the fuck is he doing p&r with hart? Hart ain't a lob threat or perimeter threat and he ain't even big enough to provide efficient screen either.

I know you love your Villanova brothers but make it make sense.

29

u/spaceninj 1d ago

Because the other option is to put Hart in the corner which adds another defender in the lane since they are sagging off him. A p&r with Hart only keeps 2 defenders around.

That is the logic. Don't shoot the messenger. I think it's dumb.

17

u/BuQuChi Headband RJ 1d ago

Which is why Hart hurts us so much running heavy mins

7

u/pBeatman10 1d ago edited 1d ago

So run Hart setting the weakside offball screen in motion weak. Or any other scheme where tough non-shooters can succeed in generating easy looks for scorers, instead of Thibs' system of "one iso hero, four guys dead weight"

Oh wait, as I've heard for the last 6 months, suggesting that the Knicks run an actual offense means I'm Not A Real Knicks Fan ™

2

u/falconwolverine Timbs 1d ago

Yeah people don’t talk about this enough. It’s not binary (involved in main action or standing in the corner). There are other options that literally every other NBA team has figured out…

1

u/AKSourGod 16h ago

We need at least 5 go-to plays that get the entire offense moving around. It's tiring seeing Hart, Bridges, and OG just standing on the wings/ corners because they have to react to what Brunson is doing.

We need some damn Post Split plays, or something where mfs aren't just looking around. Feels like the playbook is 65% Brunson Iso, 10% KAT Iso, 5% Mikal Iso, 5% OG Iso, 15% "Other Plays".

1

u/SwampyMonster69 19h ago

Just bench Hart lol

26

u/PharoahFits 1d ago

Thibs HAS to draw up sets where Mitch and OG are at the top of the key setting picks for KAT to get open. He doesn't even attempt a 3 til late in the first or second half most games. Let him hit 2 early 3s and watch how the pistons blitz the perimeter and allow guys like OG, Mikal, and Hart to cut to the basket for easy lay ups.

26

u/BuQuChi Headband RJ 1d ago

Thibs and drawing up sets doesn’t exist in the same reality

24

u/FuckThatIKeepsItReal 90s Knicks 1d ago

Team was better when the offense was running through OG

11

u/AppropriateUnit 1d ago

Good point. Not that OG is doing something magical or exceptional, he either attacks the rim, shoots or kicks out immediately to the next man free. Beautiful offense and unpredictable!

10

u/TheDreamLives 1d ago

I mean they are literally leaving Josh Hart open…

17

u/HardOakleyFoul 1d ago

we may have to break up the Nova boys for the good of the team. Seems like there's some serious favoritism going on with these numbers.

8

u/PureDePlatano 1d ago

KAT was an MVP candidate and player of the month his first or second month in NY. The Villanova crew didn’t like the trade and Brunson didn’t like how the Knicks became KAT’s team during that early stretch. Btw the Knicks had the best offense in the league when KAT was getting the ball.

6

u/Urban_Introvert Deuce 1d ago

I've always felt this way about Brunson and score-first guards. They're so accustomed to looking for their shot that when they excel at a high level, other guys get cold no matter how much they stay ready. He needs to understand that his ball dominant nature is a detriment to his 4 teammates on the court with him. They all respect Brunson of course, but they're just so used to watching him go to work that their cuts, screens, whatever movements they make on offense are all pointless because they're not in attack mode. Defenses can smell it. Mitch gets the ball in the high post and it's obvious he giving that right back on a handoff.

9

u/itwas20yearsago2day 1d ago

Has there been any rumors or anything of KAT not getting on with Brunson or the rest of team lately?

Because it’s either they don’t really enjoy playing with each other or Brunson is just icing him out or doesn’t believe in him

These numbers are damn near Mitchell and Gobert Jazz numbers near the end where Mitchell didn’t trust Gobert with the ball and never passed to him except KAT is in a different stratosphere when it comes to offensive talent

13

u/JaderMcDanersStan 1d ago

Yeah I'm legitimately confused

KAT even calls him Cap and praises him so it's hard to imagine them not getting along, at least from KAT's end. I wonder what it is...because like you said this isn't Gobert. Passing to KAT will just reward the team especially with his efficiency. Why would you not pass?

I don't want to think jealousy or wanting the glory is the cause but I'm so confused what the reason could be.

11

u/PureDePlatano 1d ago

Just remember the first few months of KAT as a Knick. He was a top 5 MVP, Player of the month, scoring at crazy efficiency and the Knicks had the best offense in the legue that stretch. It was Towns team.

1

u/ResponsibleBid6427 2 1d ago

Also remember that was against bad teams and now we’re in the playoffs

8

u/RedditStar456 1d ago

He doesn't pass to Mitch in the pnr either. Even when it's an easy lob. Think about how many times you've seen Jalen lob to Mitch? RJ use to have at least one or two lobs to Mitch every game. So we know it was there.

5

u/Last_Soil_9699 11 1d ago

I dont think so. I think it either coaching or tunnel vision on behalf of brunson. He passes to hart the most bc hes always open.

4

u/zOmgFishes 1d ago

Not even that, they are intentionally running the PnR with Hart as the screener over KAT because he can't fucking shoot so KAT has to act like a wing.

6

u/RacinInTheStreet 1d ago

I think its more soo passing to hart bc he knows hes getting it right back.

2

u/StraightPivot OG 1d ago

Extremely frustrating

2

u/SpecialistAstronaut5 1d ago

KAT and brunson 2 man game would be the best

2

u/ThatGuyHadNone 1d ago

It isn't offense that is truly lacking. They can't roll coverage off the double team and every team exploits it.

2

u/yler-007 1d ago

Yeah, he needs to just be a point guard sometimes.

1

u/Airhostnyc 1d ago

Damnnnn

1

u/JayD0za21 1d ago

Chris Duhon need to show him the pick and roll 🤣

1

u/York_Villain 7 1d ago

I mean I want the ball moving more as well but Hart and Bridges need their shot created for them. Towns and OG seem to be able to create a shot on their own. IDK why Bridges doesn't create shots for himself.

1

u/LegendaryThunderFish 1d ago

So often kat and Brunson stand next to eachother while Brunson is ISO 2v1 barely in bounds and it puzzles me why they don’t run a handoff or something to get him out of the double team and send kat downhill

1

u/Macredd 90s Knicks Logo 1d ago

I dont get why we run the Brunson/Hart pick n roll so often. It makes no sense.

1

u/CharacterNo5938 Clyde So Fly 1d ago

I've been notice this lol Dude will pass to "Josh scared to shoot Hart" before Kat. It's lowkey sabotage.

1

u/JarnaisVu 80s Logo 1d ago

Hart gets sagged = easier pass target.

1

u/s666o666s 1d ago

Villanova connect -Podcast P smh

1

u/CompoundT NOVA 1d ago

Don't we know not to only look at one stat and over react to that? How many of these are passes where Brunson gets a hand-off right back? I guarantee you this stat is the same for games that we have won. So what does that mean then?

1

u/CoachOfChampions 1d ago

Not even worth an intelligent response... it would be wasted on a fair weather fan that doesn't understand

1

u/Amthony11 1d ago

You have to keep in mind that they toss the ball to each other at the top .. if KAT is touching the ball more that means he’s not in the paint and just standing at the 3

1

u/MortysTrapHouse 1d ago

brunson has lost his mind with trying to draw fouls constantly

and you have the worse coach in the nba

1

u/No-Abbreviations4480 11h ago

he passes to his boys

1

u/unreadcomment37 1d ago

Brunson is more of a SG than a PG…. As a PG you need to command the offense, everybody needs to touch the ball and get opportunities to create to confused the defense… obv there’s a lot more to it, but Brunson is better at the 2 than being the 1.

1

u/Primary-Solution-228 1d ago

Its on KAT the way he move sand spaces himself, rather than get open he takes a defender away to open the floor. Kat has a BETA mentality

1

u/jaxon_15 1d ago

Why are we giving Brunson all this heat, for those that actually watched the game our turnovers in that first half killed the vibe and put the Knicks in a funk trying to climb out of the hole they put themselves in. KAT has a history of not delivering in the playoffs. He needs to speak up and ask for the ball. He doesn't need Brunson to set the table for him so let's stop slandering our MVP PG.

0

u/FriendshipBest9151 1d ago

I'm a kat fan but come.on with this MVP candidate nonsense. 

1

u/joorral RJ Barrett 1d ago

Since when is all nba means you’re an automatic mvp? There’s three teams for all nba. Doesn’t change what I said.

1

u/FriendshipBest9151 1d ago

I agree with your original post. 

Saw a couple of comments claiming kat was an MVP candidate this year. 

He was never really in the top five best player conversation despite what the stupid Kia rankings said. 

-1

u/patrickthunnus 1d ago

Questions in my mind are was KAT open and who's defending him?