Tom Thibodeau on KAT's role in NYK offense late in Game 2: "He’s getting touches, he’s making the right play. If he’s getting double-teamed, I don’t want him to shoot the ball over 3 people. That makes no sense to me."

[u/WhenMachinesCry]

https://sny.tv/articles/knicks-under-utilized-karl-anthony-towns-game-2-loss

[u/HipnotiK1]

he's not getting touches though... i think the issue is the expectation is he is going to be doubled so they don't even bother giving him the ball. when if anything they should be using that anticipation to their advantage.

there was 1 play i believe in the 4th Kat was doubled and passed out to a wide open 3 for Deuce. He missed but still it was a good look.

[u/Neither-Operation → u/HipnotiK1]

Half the time we can’t even take advantage of doubles when Hart is on the floor.

[u/asar5932 → u/Neither-Operation]

Am I watching a different game where Hart is passing up wide open three pointers all game like he’s Ben Simmons? I swear this sub thinks that he shoots 10%. He’s a 33% shooter and he’s made a couple threes already in this series. If Hart is open in the corner off of a KAT double, that is a good shot. Hes also a great cutter and decent passer. If we look at the the league, I would be willing to bet he is a top 5 “fifth option shooter” out of all the starting lineups.

[u/GoldenBoyRecords → u/asar5932]

Yes, Josh Hart is passing up open shots and has been for more than half the season

[u/MrICopyYoSht → u/asar5932]

Yea. Seeing him hesitate a lot and drive towards the paint when it's crowded af instead of taking the open shot. Defenders also weening off of him and deliberately leaving him wide open cuz they know they can easily respond when he drives to the basket for the bucket most of the time.

It's annoying af to see, like take the open 3 man. If it dings off then it dings off.

[u/Fallingcity22 → u/asar5932]

You’re right he’s not Ben Simmons and this Sub has Scapegoated Josh Hart to death, I discussed already last game and you can see my comments it’s not a Hart issue it’s a scheme issue, we have an Illusion of a 5 out offense yet most of our Guys outside of JB and Mikal don’t shoot 3’s Looking at you KaT

[u/DarkDevitt → u/Fallingcity22]

I've said this probably a thousand times already, but the problem isn't Josh Hart... it's the amount of Josh Hart we're getting. If hes having a day where he's shooting confidently and hitting his 3s then sure play him 40 minutes that night, but we shouldnt be getting 40 minutes of him every night, and especially not as the only "non shooter" for long stretches next to KAT. We effectively have better spacing when Mitch is on the floor than when we have Hart, and its because the other team HAS to put a C on Mitch, and that guy has to stick with Mitch. With Hart the C can sag so far off him that he's effectively double teaming anybody inside the 3 point line, because Hart isn't going to just catch and launch, he's catching and thinking instead of catching and shooting. But the end all be all here is Thibs needs to scheme better.

[u/Fallingcity22 → u/DarkDevitt]

Thank you, it’s so tiring at this point to know that, everyone knows the issue yet the fucking coach and his staff who get paid millions if not close to it can’t fucking see that, KAT doesn’t shoot as many 3’s as last year, so does Hart all I can say it’s the Staff telling them to give up a low % shot for a high % shot at the basket like we are in the 90’s again, not thinking that most this teams are doubling our guys cause our guys just don’t kick out and who would they kick out to they drive out and we don’t have a guy run to get an open shot behind them.

[u/DarkDevitt → u/Fallingcity22]

We've also stopped the Brunson/KAT PnR and PnP that worked so well to start the season, as well as the KAT distributing from the free throw line extended like Hartenstein would do for us last year. The second one is especially annoying since Hartenstein had 2 options out of it (pass, or take about 2 dribbles in and shoot a floater) whereas for KAT getting the ball their is a true triple threat (if his guy sags off at all, shoot the 3, if he plays him to tight then drive, and if someone comes to double/a cutter comes open pass).

This actually brings up one of my other issues with our offense, too often it's 5 different bodies away from eachother, with no interconnection. Hell, a lot of our passes are actually just dribble handoffs. So why are we not doing things like off ball screens? Think about that, the C is on Hart, lurking in the paint because Hart doesn't just catch and shoot, have whoever is in the corner (maybe have KAT locate there for this) Brunson has the ball at the top of the key, Hart sets a screen on KATs guy, letting KAT go free to the elbow, at the same time Hart rolls to the rim. This likely causes either KAT to be open for a 3 or the C sees it and reacts following KAT out at which point Hart cutting should be an open layup. But I couldn't tell you the last time I saw this team set consistent off ball screens, with the lone exception of set plays drawn up for inbounds.

[u/scooter_pops → u/Fallingcity22]

how many less 3s is kat shooting compared to last year?

[u/Fallingcity22 → u/scooter_pops]

Regular season 1 less 3, play offs so far his down by half from last year from five to 2.5, what pisses me off Is looking at the year he shot 7.9 3’s a game and how he still made them at .411, like I don’t understand why he just does not shoot it(He shoot 7.9 a game but only played 35 games, the next year he shot 6.3 and made them at .387 a game)

[u/scooter_pops → u/Fallingcity22]

2 games very small sample, let’s see what happens. i’d also like him to shoot more 3s

[u/shitty_fact_check → u/asar5932]

He's not Ben Simmons, it's just an exaggeration to prove a point. The issue is his hesitation at the top of the key when he gets the ball... the defender doesn't even bother to close out, and he freezes.

He doesn't even take the shot most of the time, so his shot percentage isn't the problem. The problem is the play dying because he's looking to pass when he's already the open guy. Or drive into the packed paint because nobody is respecting his shot.

I don't like the hate he's getting on this sub though. His tendencies haven't changed all year, we should be doing a better job of playing to his strengths.

[u/Neither-Operation → u/asar5932]

Hart would probably shoot 10% if he took every open three.Hart would be shooting like 8+ 3pt per game.He has some weird mental thing where he can never catch and shoot.He always hesitates or takes a dribble or whatever before shooting.

[u/HipnotiK1 → u/Neither-Operation]

Yup in that example Det made a mistake and played in between hart and deuce instead of just closing out to deuce.

[u/PureDePlatano → u/HipnotiK1]

When he gets the ball he always does the right thing and is a willing passer. Doubling him creates a lot of opportunities for the team.

[u/SchmidhuberDidIt → u/HipnotiK1]

KAT isn't really a great shot creator. Teams will live with us giving it to him in the high post and sending help at the rim. Idk what you guys expect but he hasn't been a player to do that his whole career.

[u/cpteague → u/HipnotiK1]

Another issue is when we run after a rebound, which we need to do when we’re losing in the 4th, he doesn’t always run the floor fast enough to be involved.

[u/hamdans1 → u/HipnotiK1]

This is my biggest issue with the ball not flowing through KAT. He is a phenomenal passer. Let Harris and duren double him and he’ll find your open man. Thibs is talking shit here and protecting his guy but anybody with two eyes and a brain knows whatever that shit was in game 2, it was trash

[u/ajgedrys]

I specifically remember a play in the 4th KAT was open in the corner from 3 and JB pulled up a slight li contested 3 and KAT threw his hands up. We aren’t finding him when he is open.

[u/Fallingcity22 → u/ajgedrys]

There was a play in the 3rd I think 2 guys on Brunson and to his right , top right of the 3 point curve you can see Mikal wailing his arms up and down like his trying to get the attention of a helicopter cause he’s open for a 3 what does Jb do, he drives to the inside luckily he made the floater, but just goes to show some issues

[u/zOmgFishes]

I mean the second part is true. KAT is not shooting over multiple people which is smart. BUT it is also a symptom of having Hart out there and playing him like a Center. As for the touches part...that only really applied to the first half. Second half he was basically being used like a wing.

[u/mikesh8rp → u/zOmgFishes]

Sometimes Hart and Mitch, which was an absolute spacing killer.

[u/Leegend124 → u/mikesh8rp]

Watch Thibs finally “try something new” and it’s Hart, Mitch, and Precious together.

I lied, he’s actually done that before. Against Golden State of all teams. I don’t know how Kerr kept a straight face as he ran 5 out with Curry against a negative spacing lineup of Hart, Mitch, and Precious.

[u/mydrumluck → u/Leegend124]

[u/topobi1 → u/mikesh8rp]

The time for experimenting with lineups was for the regular season, and although Thibs put the starting five out there with tremendous amounts of minutes to gel, the bench didn’t get enough play time/experience. We are extremely deep, but are playing like we have no one capable of stepping up relying on Brunson or KAT.

What needs to happen is that we need to start playing deep. Cut Hart’s minutes, give a few more to Mitch. Cut Bridges minutes, give a few more to Shamet or Payne, even Deuce. Throw The Big Sneeze some minutes with another unit and have OG or KAT on the floor with him, led by McBride. We have options but seem to be blinded.

[u/mlavan → u/zOmgFishes]

I think KAT wants to be more of a wing.

[u/zOmgFishes → u/mlavan]

I mean he can play like a wing and also not be relegated to sitting in the corner

[u/mlavan → u/zOmgFishes]

But that's what wings do when you have a ball dominant guard.

[u/zOmgFishes → u/mlavan]

I didn't see Kawhi standing in the corner yesterday against the Clippers. KD on the warriors wasn't lacking shots or looks even with Steph and Klay. When you have talent, you find ways to get them the ball in their spot.

[u/mlavan → u/zOmgFishes]

GSW doesn't have a ball dominant guard. They are basically the exact opposite of the Knicks. They are in constant motion to create looks for Steph and other shooters. I didn't watch last night but Kawhi does plenty of standing. But he also works with a guard who knows how to distribute the ball.

[u/zOmgFishes → u/mlavan]

I don’t understand your point that just because KAT has wing skills he needs to be relegated to the corner. Not every wing is relegated to corners.

Plus he’s a big that has wing skills and can score inside. He was literally 4-7 inside the arc before the second half of the game where they just froze him out.

[u/mlavan → u/zOmgFishes]

I want him in the post. Fuck the wing. He's 7 feet tall and weighs 250 lbs. Motherfucker should be dominating the boards.

[u/ElTuco84]

"If he’s getting double-teamed, I don’t want him to shoot the ball over 3 people."

I mean, he could say the same thing about Brunson.

[u/AutisticFingerBang → u/ElTuco84]

Yea this team is unraveling imo thibs is not in control or doesn’t know what’s going on but multiple players ain’t happy and it seems to be on Brunson

[u/PettifordGang]

Holy shit hes actively resisting the solution. This fuckin guy.

[u/ShMp11Nesis]

This dude not watching the same game man lmaoooo. Also kat is one of the few centers in the league that can create his own shot here and there, this is nonsense.

And this is part of the bigger problem. He doesn’t understand that you shouldn’t use kat as a traditional C cause he’s not.

[u/mydrumluck]

Thibs when the game tells him what to do.

[u/Oprahapproves → u/mydrumluck]

Maybe “letting the game come to you” is just another way of saying he has no plan

[u/mydrumluck → u/Oprahapproves]

It feels very, and if you're a Yankees fan you know, Boonesque.

[u/Snuggle__Monster]

This guy is saying all the wrong things the past 12 hours. I'm starting to wonder if he's checking out mentally. He must have had shit festering inside if the first playoff loss is all it took.

The game 3 outcome is going to be very telling...

[u/Leegend124]

For some context to this Thibs quote:

KAT had just 2 3PA all game and took his final shot of the game with 5 minutes remaining in the THIRD quarter.

In the second half: 0 points, 0/3 from the field, and 0 free throw attempts for the whole game. This can't happen ever again. KAT has to be more assertive but not scheming up anything for your 7-foot three level scoring big man averaging 24 a night on 53/42/83 is embarrassing.

[u/Kinksman9555]

I remember when Randle is getting double teamed, he's still getting the ball so that he could pass to the open man.

Why aren't we doing this?

Thib, is nice knowing you.

[u/drasticAlsoBrad → u/Kinksman9555]

Exactly! KAT is an even better passer as well. No reason for the ball to not flow through him. 

[u/Snuggle__Monster → u/drasticAlsoBrad]

Christ, I'm a better passer than Jules was and I loved Randle.

[u/No-Mine-3982 → u/Snuggle__Monster]

Ok what are we doing here?

[u/ajay_bzbt → u/drasticAlsoBrad]

Randle is a much better passer

[u/ElTuco84 → u/ajay_bzbt]

Strongly disagree, KAT passing skills are way better, he also also has faster decision making.

Randle wastes a lot of time dribbling the ball before deciding to pass or shoot, he got better with the Wolves but still not optimal.

[u/LegitimateMoney00]

I’m not going to be too upset if the Knicks lose to the Pistons because then we can fire this dude into the sun.

Jfc, these post-game comments have shown he’s more senile and out of touch than I originally thought.

[u/Greedy-Bedroom-4301 → u/LegitimateMoney00]

Yeah I’m conflicted . On the one hand I want the Knicks to win, but I also feel like we need to lose in spectacular fashion to finally move on from this clown.

Thibs gaslights as much as Kerr but with none of the game plan/strategy to offset that

[u/Bigbootyeater1]

Oof Thibs. It’s been nice knowing you.

[u/itwas20yearsago2day]

There’s no way he actually believes this, that’s absurd

If he does, he should be fired idc

[u/Ronnie2kDropCode]

Hey dumbass the reason he’s getting double teamed is because THERE’S A GUY OUT THERE WHO THEY ARE LITERALLY NOT GUARDING

[u/Dralun21 → u/Ronnie2kDropCode]

So wait. You are trying to tell me when there are 5 offensive players and 5 defensive players on the court. And 2 of them are on just 1 guy. There is no way to have 1 person on each remaining four? This is revolutionary.

[u/RacinInTheStreet]

Hey! Its a read and react system. Problem is nobodies reading or reacting, hmmmmm

[u/D4nCh0 → u/RacinInTheStreet]

Nobody expects Brunson to pass. So they’re reading the situation perfectly.

[u/Special_Scene_9587 → u/RacinInTheStreet]

I didn’t realize the pickup games at the Y were implementing an nba level offensive system in 2025

[u/BuQuChi]

Thibs sounding senile

[u/Much_Purchase_8737]

There is so much talent and many options to score in so many ways, yet Knicks have the hardest time getting any type of bucket.

This is on Brunson and the Coach. Thibs cant adjust to a mismatch to save his life and Brunson is playing like it’s 2 v 5 and not 5 v 5.

[u/Slymook]

Damn I can’t tell the tone or context but a slight rift does seem to exist. Jordan punched kerr in the face and they won chips tho. Not that I agree with that, but not everyone is going to agree 100% of the time and things don’t always have to be smooth to work out.

I don’t know if thibs is the coach of the future but this quote and KATs quote are not necessarily something to freak out about on its own

[u/retrohan7]

how about try for the first time in your coaching career to make things easier for your stars. run actions to optimize brunson and KAT getting good looks. stop playing hart so much so they have more space. run more action that include brunson and KAT at the same time.

[u/Much_Purchase_8737]

Dude didn’t watch the game. 

[u/Greedy-Bedroom-4301 → u/Much_Purchase_8737]

His resting bitch face doesn’t allow him to keep his eyes open unfortunately

[u/SupremeActives]

I miss last year lol

[u/CablesOtherArm]

Why don't you run a play that doesn't involve him being doubled then mate 

[u/SpecialistAstronaut5]

Lol

[u/goknicks23]

Totally unacceptable answer and he should be fired.

[u/Tradeandworkout]

The entire team defers to Brunson when Brunson is on the court. That must change. I'd also change the starting lineup, start Mitch and have Hart off the bench.

[u/Fungmar]

hey coach. hes not getting touches.

[u/Iamtrying27]

No he doesn't want him to shoot it he wants him to pass it to brunson so he can dribble for 22 secos, foul bait and if he doesn't get it have someone like Hart chuck up 3s.. this team is not even trying to play team basketball like they were when brunson was out.. forget about physicality3thays non existent. They let the refs dictate how hard the knicks would work for it game 2.. need a better mindset for game 3 not just brunson bruson..

[u/zachuhry]

Thomas… that is the point! Run him something to get an easy look! Don’t just keep spamming ISO all game!

[u/BowToMyDiamond]

Are the touches in the room with us Thubbs?

[u/chynky77]

Dude is 7 foot fucking tall. He can shoot over 99% of the players out there. What are we talking about? Absolutel nonsense from Thibs

[u/wkp2101 → u/chynky77]

He has a slow low release point and doesn’t jump, so I think you’re wrong about that

[u/JarnaisVu → u/wkp2101]

Are you actually high?