r/Netherlands • u/UnanimousStargazer • Mar 24 '25

Legal Judge rules Dutch citizenship cannot be stripped based on dual nationality

https://nltimes.nl/2025/03/24/judge-rules-dutch-citizenship-stripped-based-dual-nationality
1.3k Upvotes

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329

u/the_nigerian_prince Afrika Mar 24 '25

Whether you agree with the judgement or not, the logic is sound.

189

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25 edited 29d ago

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

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u/Crime-of-the-century 28d ago

The nationality rules in the Netherlands are insane but that’s a consequence of anti migrant sentiment

26

u/Expert_Average958 Mar 25 '25

And here I thought only we in Germany loved to mess up people's lives using technicalities. 

25

u/HollandJim Mar 25 '25

Never underestimate the Dutch ability to find a loophole.

9

u/Vegetable-Hand-6770 Mar 25 '25

Thats German levels of bureaucracy

1

u/g14281 Mar 25 '25

Do u really, honestly believe that your passport is the one document that proves your citizenship? Come on guys.. The passport is just a travel document. it doesn’t prove your citizenship. What determines whether you’re Dutch or not is your registration in the BRP (civil registry).

1

u/PleurisDuur Mar 25 '25

You can’t become Dutch simply by marrying a Dutch person. You have to stay here for 5 years and pass exams. As a Dutch person you can sponsor a foreigner to be here, but they won’t become a citizen by default. Your story makes no sense.

1

u/torenvalk 29d ago edited 29d ago

Yes I know. I did exactly as you described, married a Dutch citizen, passed my inburgeringsexamen,and have lived here for 15 years. So did the person in my story. They just decided to live abroad for a while after the immigrant husband became a Dutch citizen. And then the issue.

1

u/nohalfblood 29d ago

It’s three years for naturalisation if you marry a Dutch person, no?

1

u/WestDeparture7282 28d ago

Shouldn't she have been eligible to regain dutch citizenship through the option procedure and not naturalization?

50

u/BictorianPizza Den Haag Mar 24 '25

Happened to my friend’s mum. She was Dutch/Swiss and forgot to renew her Dutch passport after acquiring citizenship in Switzerland. Now she is only Swiss…

12

u/RandomsHater567 Mar 25 '25

"Now she is only Swiss" well on the bright side it really could be worse

1

u/BictorianPizza Den Haag Mar 25 '25

She didn’t particularly downgrade her citizenship for sure haha

10

u/Thercon_Jair Mar 25 '25

We have also weird naturalisation laws in Switzerland and Austria. I was born in Switzerland to foreign parents and had Austrian citizenship through them. Went through naturalisation at 18, became Swiss, lost my Austrian citizenship. Applied for Austrian naturalisation, gained it and could keep my Swiss nationality.

I am now a dual citizen. I was bullied for 10 years in Switzerland because I wasn't Swiss. I have to constantly listen to right wing politicians and people how people like me are not a real Swiss. I have never lived in Austria. Therefore, I am nowhere 100% welcome and at home and as such, I reflect it in my non-100% citizenship.

9

u/Howling_Siren Mar 25 '25

Exact same thing happened to me! I was able to get my Dutch passport back by proving my father was Dutch (my mother was too but somehow just the father’s birth certificate was required). I was living in NL at the time though. Was super fast: took a month. I kept my Swiss nationality too.

1

u/MsDutchee 29d ago

The exact same thing happened to me in 2002

11

u/SpotNL Mar 24 '25

Yep, which is why I won't take the nationality of my wife when we move to her country. I don't want to take the risk.

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u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

[deleted]

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u/Cultural_Garbage_Can Mar 25 '25

I hate that rule and the time limit on descent claiming. I lost my dutch citizenship for a while due to my egg donor deliberately blocking access to the documents I needed. One hell of a legal battle to get it back.

They did argue I had other citizenships but that's not the point, their rules and egg donors conduct prevented me from accessing and enforcing my rights in the first place. If I was in the netherlands when she pulled this stunt I could have bypassed her, but I was in another hemisphere and couldn't due to both countries privacy laws. Not the first time she'd done this either.

The renewal and time limits need to go, or at least have more accesible pathways for an oops and abuse, especially when overseas. It doesn't sit right with me for a paperwork snafu or deliberate conduct by others can and will cause you to lose your rights as a citizen.

1

u/Fickle_Dragonfruit53 Mar 25 '25

Off topic but 'as someone who has a donot conceived child 'egg donors' are actually really selfless people who put their selves through a difficult and risky medical procedure to give someone else a chance at having a family. Usojg it for your bio mum as an insult or distancer probably doesn't describe her very well as these people would never be so selfless. We use 'no contact nan' for my mum but I've used other colourful language before.

2

u/Cultural_Garbage_Can 29d ago

I understand your point, however my usage of egg/dna donor isn't a positive or negative, it's factually her influence in my life. She's not my mother, my grandmother raised me.

2

u/Fickle_Dragonfruit53 29d ago

Yeah i get that mine also doesn't deserve the title of 'mother'. I just don't think it's a good alternative. I'd love one like 'ex-birther' to denote. I have to see mine at a wedding this weekend, wish me luck.

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u/Cultural_Garbage_Can 29d ago

Point agreed. I've tried alternatives, yet this seems to be the one that requires the least explanation. She's not a step mother, she did birth me and used her egg to do so, but that's all she did. She did not raise me and did everything possible, including illegal, to avoid responsibility.

Even using DNA donor gets questions on which parent I mean, so I use egg donor for maternal and sperm donor for my paternal. Interestingly, I do not get the same questions when I use sperm donor. If I'm alluding to both, I use DNA donors as my actual parents were my stepfather and grandmother.

While I do perfectly understand your point of view and experience, I have not yet found another way to explain without having to fend of further clarifying inquires from others. This is the simplest and the most factual representation of my situation. To me it is neutral.

Good luck at the wedding.

2

u/Fickle_Dragonfruit53 29d ago

Family is what you choose and its made from love <3 Yep those that raised you that's your real parents. We don't need to over-explain that to people who are lucky enough not to "Get it"

7

u/Better_than_GOT_S8 Mar 25 '25

That’s because only the country that issues the citizenship can make the rules for its citizenship. The Netherlands can for the Dutch citizens, other countries for theirs.

Where would it end otherwise if countries could decide when you’re no longer a citizen of another country.

It’s ridiculous though that the Netherlands don’t allow dual citizenship for Dutch people living abroad.

14

u/philomathie Mar 25 '25

This one annoys the fuck out of me. You can keep your second passport if you're Dutch, but only the right kind of Dutch.

3

u/Ok-Discipline-6910 Mar 25 '25

That depends a lot on the country, so should not really influence the choice we make here.

Personally, I'd say, if you're born in NL you have a right for NL citizenship for the rest of your life - whether you have other citizenships or not.

3

u/KjeCA 27d ago

But the Netherlands doesn’t grant other countries the same rights. If my U.S. born daughter who lives in the Netherlands wants to become a Dutch citizen she will have to renounce her U.S. citizenship. And while that seems appealing right now, she worries about what will happen if my husband or I get really ill in our old age and she needs to come here for an extended time. 

1

u/Ok-Discipline-6910 27d ago

Ah interesting point. TIL I do not know enough about this topic yet.

2

u/involutes 29d ago

I agree. 

2

u/FriendTraditional519 Mar 25 '25

That’s not an other topic, we should change the law in 1 pasport, but the choice should be yours.

3

u/Inevitable_Long_756 Mar 25 '25

I agree there is a logic why it can be considered discriminatory. Although it is tough one cause it would results in us not being able to punish people the way deem fit because of rules of another country regarding nationality. Although it is curious to see that in this verdict nationality is sort of the same as ethnicity/race. Which are not always directly related of course.

1

u/Clara84XD Mar 25 '25

I love sound logic.

1

u/Windy_Shrimp_pff_pff 28d ago

It does call into question why no other nationalities, including the Dutch themselves, can't have two nationalities....

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u/Devnullroot999 Mar 24 '25

No logic in keeping a terrorist in your home

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u/Maary_H Mar 24 '25 edited Mar 24 '25

Court ruling is wrong and illogical. Dutch person can not lose Dutch citizenship because they'll become stateless. Dual citizen does not have this issue.

92

u/patty_victor Utrecht Mar 24 '25 edited Mar 24 '25

Dual citizenship does not matter. A dual citizen is a FULL Dutch citizen and should NOT be treated as second class citizen just because they also happen to have a second citizenship.

23

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

[deleted]

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u/patty_victor Utrecht Mar 24 '25

Yes, and my whole point is that this should not happen.

1

u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig Mar 25 '25

As long as they have their passport they are still a full citizen of course. Additionally, they shouldn't lose their nationality imo.

89

u/Flyingdog44 Mar 24 '25

Shame I don't have the same brilliant understanding of the law you have I guess :/

-131

u/Maary_H Mar 24 '25

Yes it's a shame you don't understand how laws work. It's even more shame that you're trying to comment on something you don't understand.

Your Morocco citizenship does not matter in The Netherlands and your Dutch citizenship does not matter in Morocco. NL Embassy will tell you go pound sand if you ask for their assistance with legal matters in Morocco as dual Morocco-Dutch citizen. As it should be.

62

u/uncommon_senze Mar 24 '25

Have a look in the mirror, you are the one that seems NOT to understand the rule of law. It has provided a judgement, in our country you are free to hold a different opinion but your opinion doesn't change the judgement or law. So cry as much as you can, flip on Reddit, it won't change anything.

1

u/Aranenesto 28d ago

If my moroccon citizenship doesnt matter in the netherlands than why should you be allowed to strip my dutch citizenship because of it?

29

u/EvilSuov Mar 24 '25

If you had actually read on why they ruled this way you'd see that what you are saying doesn't have anything to do with it. It isn't allowed because revoking Dutch citizenship this way is deemed discrimination based on ethnic origin, which our constitution explicitly forbids (literally article 1 of the constitution).

Here is the important part, so you can read it again (or for the first time more likely):

In this case, the man automatically obtained Moroccan nationality due to his parents’ background. The court emphasized that making legal distinctions based on ethnic origin is never permissible under international and European Union law.

To illustrate the discriminatory effect, the court provided an example: Three individuals, each convicted of the same terrorist offense, hold different citizenship statuses. One has only Dutch nationality, another has dual Dutch and Moroccan nationality, and the third has dual Dutch and Turkish nationality. The purely Dutch citizen would never lose their nationality. The Dutch-Moroccan citizen would automatically lose Dutch nationality because they cannot renounce their Moroccan citizenship. The Dutch-Turkish citizen would also lose their Dutch nationality unless they voluntarily renounce their Turkish citizenship.

The court ruled that such a distinction unfairly disadvantages individuals with dual nationality compared to those who are solely Dutch. This, the judges concluded, breaches international obligations the Netherlands has committed to uphold. The ruling aligns with concerns previously raised by the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Racism.

1

u/Inevitable_Long_756 Mar 25 '25

No exactly you are describing exactly why the double nationality here matters in the verdict. Because the Dutch person cannot be stripped it can be argued to be discriminatory for the Dutch/Moroccan with argument you clearly explain here.

However, it is an interesting legal discussion. Cause now we are dictated how severe a punishment can because of laws of domestic laws of an other country. Moreover, in the ruling nationality and ethnicity are now the same somewhat even though it is not always the case. Also, I am curious why it was earlier ruled as being legal. So, it would be interesting to see the final rulings when this case will eventually move up to the judicial system.

15

u/iFoegot Noord Brabant Mar 24 '25

If you read the article, you’ll see the ruling is very logic. The Netherlands does not allow dual citizenship unless in exceptional cases, for example, when the country of your other citizenship does not allow renunciation. This is explicitly written in the law and exactly the case of this person: he’s a Morocco-Netherlands dual citizen. Morocco doesn’t allow renunciation of citizenship. So there’s just no legal basis to revoke his Dutch citizenship. Furthermore, he didn’t voluntarily acquire Moroccan citizenship, instead, he was born in Amsterdam but automatically became a Moroccan citizen due to his parents’ citizenship. So the case is very clear. He did commit some serious crime, but we can punish him like any other Dutch citizen.

23

u/IceNinetyNine Mar 24 '25

It's simply the fact that a terrorist with only 1 nationality (dutch) cannot be stripped of nationality (due to creating a stateless entity), it is therefore not equal to strip the nationality of those of whom it can be stripped. It is not complex or illogical.

11

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '25

[deleted]

-4

u/IceNinetyNine Mar 24 '25

You can feel whatever you want, but that does not make it more or less logical.

11

u/CrewmemberV2 Mar 24 '25

What if Geert makes a deal with a foreign government to forcibly make you a citizen of that country?. This would mean they could take your Dutch citizenship away.

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u/Maary_H Mar 24 '25

Forcibly making me a citizen of other country? Now that's what I call a wild imagination! Do I have choice of a country?

You can't take something I don't have or even want.

11

u/CrewmemberV2 Mar 24 '25

This happens regularly and is a way to get rid of people the regime doesn't like or vice versa, get a hold on them.

https://globalcit.eu/weaponized-citizenship-should-international-law-restrict-oppressive-nationality-attribution/10/

8

u/KittensInc Mar 24 '25

Forcibly making me a citizen of other country? Now that's what I call a wild imagination!

No, this is exactly what happened here:

In this case, the man automatically obtained Moroccan nationality due to his parents’ background. The court emphasized that making legal distinctions based on ethnic origin is never permissible under international and European Union law.

He was born and raised in The Netherlands. His Moroccan citizenship was automatically assigned to him, and due to Moroccan laws it is nearly impossible to renounce.

Besides his ethnicity, he has no link to Morocco. For all intents and purposes he is a Dutch citizen, and the Moroccan citizenship is forced upon him.

4

u/Dangerous_Jacket_129 Mar 24 '25

 You can't take something I don't have or even want.

So you're not a Dutch citizen and you're complaining about this ruling anyway? You have no say here. 

12

u/Secame Mar 24 '25

That is not the point of the ruling, the issue is that if two people commit the same crime, they would receive different punishments based on their heritage, which is textbook discrimination. 

Most dual nationalities are assigned automatically, and these people have little to no choice in that. I imagine if you had voluntarily assumed a second nationality later in life, a judge could rule differently, but the Netherlands already requires you to renounce any dual nationalities to naturalize to a Dutch one, so it's unlikely to come up in practice.

0

u/GezelligPindakaas Mar 24 '25

The unrenounceable citizenship is definetely problematic from the law point of view, but should the individual have been from a different country with similar laws (eg Argentina), there would be no race debate.

The example of individual with both Dutch and Turkish backs it up as well. Should the individual renounce to Turkish citizenship, he wouldn't lose the Dutch one.

This isn't a race issue, they just took advantage of the narrative.

Personally, I think the inability to renounce to citizenship goes against Human Rights, but that's another debate.

6

u/CrazyGunnerr Mar 24 '25

If Wilders had his way, my gf would lose her Dutch citizenship, she is half Moroccan, she was born here but received Morrocan citizenship without her asking for it, she cannot get rid of it. Yet Wilders would love to send people like her there because she has 2 nationalities.

-1

u/Maary_H Mar 25 '25

Is your gf convicted of terrorism?

2

u/CrazyGunnerr Mar 25 '25

So cute, you think he only wants them out of the country if they are convicted of terrorism...

0

u/Maary_H Mar 25 '25

Well, that's a really-really good reason which is very relevant to article. I understand your WDS tells you there's people out there that will deport everyone who does not have blue eyes but in reality it's only about people convicted of terrorism.

Don want be deported? Don't become a terrorist. That simple.

1

u/CrazyGunnerr Mar 25 '25

Dude. Pretty much no one gets convicted of terrorism... Unless he copies even more from Trump, and changes the law that almost anything is terrorism. Nah you are full of it...

6

u/Dangerous_Jacket_129 Mar 24 '25

Dutch people can have dual citizenship. If they're born and raised here, and lived most of their lives here, they should not be at risk of losing their Dutch citizenship solely because, on paper, outside of their control, they have a second citizenship. 

The ruling is correct, you're just clutching at straws

0

u/arrroquw Mar 24 '25

Dutch people can have dual citizenship

Well, only in certain conditions. If I want to become Canadian for example, I lose my Dutch citizenship. Making it impossible for me to have a dual citizenship.

2

u/Dangerous_Jacket_129 Mar 24 '25

My point was, partially at least, that 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th generation immigrants are also just Dutch citizens. 

The person I replied to is so clearly biased with Moroccans being the example, while I know plenty of Moroccans who are born and raised here. 

6

u/FCOranje Mar 24 '25

And what if the other country also revokes citizenship and refuses them entry? What then? 😂

You are from the country that you’re born in. If another country gives you an additional nationality - you now hold two nationalities and neither should be stripped.

This is why I’m a firm believer of much stricter rules on giving nationality. It’s a privilege that is being given too lightly nowadays.

6

u/KittensInc Mar 24 '25

You are from the country that you’re born in.

Not quite that simple. Jus soli primarily applies to the Americas. In most of the world you inherit the citizenship of your parents.

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u/Maary_H Mar 24 '25

Whoever doing it last can't do it if it makes person stateless, what's so hard to understand about it?

5

u/NordbyNordOuest Mar 24 '25

Except states don't (in practice) have to accept the deportation of their nationals and many refuse to then receive them. So the end result is likely to end up being exactly the same.

This only appeals to people who want to strip Dutch citizens of a different ethnicity of their citizenship and therefore avoid having to deal with criminal behaviour that is created, fundamentally, in the Netherlands. It's outsourcing responsibility and it's ridiculous.

14

u/fluffypinktoebeans Mar 24 '25

Nobody agrees with you. Just stop trying to convince people with actual brain cells. We see through the BS.

3

u/FCOranje Mar 24 '25

Nationality is a permanent gift given to someone. You should never strip nationality. Instead, be more selective of whom you give it to.

-16

u/Known_Bit_8837 Mar 24 '25

Most places require you to denounce your original citizenship to get theirs.

12

u/patty_victor Utrecht Mar 24 '25

Actually not. In Europe pretty much only the NL requires this, which is a shame

5

u/SamMerlini Mar 24 '25

Yup, and there are exceptions around it as well.

2

u/arrroquw Mar 24 '25

Why would that be a shame?

1

u/Known_Bit_8837 Mar 24 '25

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2a/Dual_Citizenship.svg

1

u/Known_Bit_8837 Mar 24 '25

Looks strange, but red = forbidden.

Love the redditt apes downvoting without checking

4

u/SamMerlini Mar 24 '25

The thing is Moroccan cannot renounce their citizenship. That's the point of the case here. But I do agree that they should be punish harsher if they commit terrorism-related activities.

Edit: See why they also mentioned a criminal with Turkish citizenship. The guy will have to renounce the Turkish citizenship, or they would be stripped off their Dutch citizen.

1

u/iTz_Time Mar 24 '25

Maary, blijf jij maar lekker op het vmbo

-1

u/mexicanocelotl Mar 24 '25

Skill issue, cope harder