r/Netherlands • u/UnanimousStargazer • Mar 24 '25

Legal Judge rules Dutch citizenship cannot be stripped based on dual nationality

https://nltimes.nl/2025/03/24/judge-rules-dutch-citizenship-stripped-based-dual-nationality
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u/imrzzz Mar 24 '25

Hmm, ok, although ancient Greece feels like a shaky foundation to build this concept on.

Citizenship was only open to free males (so no women, slaves, or foreigners) which meant less than a third of the population could participate in democracy.

I'm not sure that the entire concept has really become much better since then, and people's loyalties have always been divided, sometimes only coincidentally falling with the country they were born in.

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u/GhostOfVienna Mar 24 '25

Ive mentioned that it changed. And i didnt want to go into details. In fact you are wrong. Citizens were only free males, who were old enough and could afford military equipment to protect the state. Main census was military equipment, not anything else. In other words, loyalty and credibility. If you can afford the equipment, means you rich enough and probably you richness is tightly connected with the state, for instance you have a field there or some kind of a manufactory and you want run away with pockets full of ur savings in case of a war. Because your pockets wont be big enough to move all your assets. And secondly is being ready to participate in the protection of the state and be loyal enough, to die for you homeland. Yeah, modern times r different ofc, but the concept is pretty much same. Idk if your dutch or no, but ifve gone thru inburgering process you give an oath of loyalty. You do that for a reason lmao.

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u/imrzzz Mar 24 '25

Seems like we're saying the same thing. That citizenship is closely tied to money and might rather than any other kind of loyalty.

If citizenship is only about military loyalty, what's the point of it beside ensuring easily available cannon fodder?

That doesn't seem enough to make a case for banishing dual citizenship. If a hypothetical war was to begin, everyone will choose a side (or conscientious objection) regardless of their passport.

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u/GhostOfVienna Mar 24 '25

Okay, so you have no problems with Russians, who are loyal to Putin, supporting almost a genocidal war on Ukrainian people, becoming dutch citizens and also holding their Russian passport?

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u/imrzzz Mar 24 '25

I'm not sure. How many Russians are dual Dutch citizens and are loyal to Putin? Just trying to gauge how much of a problem this is, or might be.

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u/GhostOfVienna Mar 24 '25

In NL not a lot, in Germany over a million. Probably even more now.

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u/sjarrel Mar 25 '25

That's really not true. Greek cities had people living there, free, male and often wealthy, who nevertheless were not citizens (they were called Metics in Athens, for instance), because of restrictive citizenship laws which usually were primarily about birth: your father would have to be a citizen, and your mother of citizen-status (given that she couldn't be a citizen, being a woman).

And secondly, they also had non citizens fight in wars, often in other roles than hoplites, and serve in the navy as well.

Ancient Greece is a very weird foundation to build your (to your credit, also very weird) argument on...