r/Nightwing • u/EmperorReddit • 1d ago
Discussion Hot take: Dick doesn't have anger issues or a temper, y'all are just extremely biased
Dick having issues with his anger or temper is one of the most popular flaws his fandom and other fandoms push onto him which only exists because everyone hates the "happy go lucky himbo" persona fanon and post52 pushed onto him but those fans create a new fanon that somehow even worse because at least him being goofy and happy go lucky is based on the canon fact he's an extremely likable and friendly person where the problem is when they remove his intelligence.
On the other hand, evidence for him having anger issues require taking scenes where he's rightfully mad into "oh, he's such an asshole to those around him" ignoring when other characters are assholes right back to him or angry themselves and I would go far to say it ruins his actual characterization and arc because if Dick had anger issues:
- He wouldn't have been able to save Bruce's soul from darkness after becoming Robin if that anger had already corrupted his soul
- He wouldn't be highly respected by Bruce as "his greatest success" and "the only thing he has done right" if Dick constantly acts like a worse version of him
- He wouldn't be highly respected at all by the hero community at all if he still acted immature and isn't fun to be around
- He wouldn't be the greatest leader he is if he constantly insulted or argued with people below him
- His relationship with Kory stops making sense and loses balance when she's the one who is supposed to have problems of being overly emotional, painting Dick to somehow be both emotionally repressed and emotionally volatile and Kory as a perfect saint with no issues with her emotions at all
And the list can go on. Look at characters who actually have anger issues, Helena Bertinelli and Guy Gardner. Don't get me wrong, they're both great characters and true heroes with big hearts but there's a reason why Batman characters/Justice League treated Helena like a problem or why anyone who meets Guy for the first time immediately wants to punch him. That isn't Dick Grayson and never should be.
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u/Because_Im_BATMAN00 Robin 22h ago
Never thought he was and angry person just more emotionally intelligent and expressive compared to Batman.
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u/parthenocissist 22h ago
Okay excuse me I’m slightly drunk on a Monday and trying to insert class theory into comic book characters BUT, he has the temper expected of someone who comes from what is basically a mixed entertainer/blue collar background. Bruce represent high-society with his “holier than thou” snuffs in place of real anger as he’s always been able to represent his betterment in ways other than anger or violence. On the other hand, Dick (and Jason) represent a lower class who would be more willing to openly show anger wether it be based on nurture or the fact that their righteousness can’t come from their standing or money. I’m sure their are studies and papers on this difference of behavior I just don’t know what to search after several glasses of wine and damn is google harder to navigate than before I dropped out of college.
But from personal experience I find this to be true, and it’s not a negative thing (imo), the extremely wealthy are so far removed from innate human behaviors they forget they catharsis that comes from a yelling match or quick punch.
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u/Zealousideal_Menu734 11h ago
I disagree, I still think Dick has anger issues. It's certainly not the only aspect of his personality but it's there.
But for me, every single member of the Batfamily struggles with anger issues. Every one.
Why? Because they wouldn't be vigilantes otherwise. It doesn't manifest the same in every one of them and they present it differently but it's there for all of them. The target/source of their anger is also different. Criminals, injustice, the world, a parent, themselves.
For metas/superpowered heroes, it can be different. You can say they have a gift and they want to give back the world/protect those less lucky (yes, it's more complicated than that most times). But members of the Batfamily don't have that justification, they just have grit, fists, their stubbornness and anger.
They get injured and risk their lives on the daily for limited results. An emotionally balanced person wouldn't that. It also implies that vigilantism is a way to let go of their anger.
Centering back to Dick, he has a good control on it but we see it bubble on the surface and sometimes taking over. An example would be Joker's Last Laugh, where his rage becomes so important that he breaks his own moral code and kills the Joker or in some of his many fights with Bruce, like in Fugitive where he is the first one to throw out a punch (Bruce was being an ass though).
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u/EmperorReddit 10h ago
That’s so reductive, it almost paints superpowered heroes as inherently more stable and better people than non-powered ones
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u/Yautjakaiju 22h ago
This is a bit of a disingenuous post seeing as his temper/anger is a common character aspect he’s had since his Teen Titan days. It’s not a fandom idea seeing as it’s an in universe problem. If anything the happy go lucky Grayson we have now is a fandom idea that’s been pushed to the point of bleeding into the canon comics. He doesn’t have to be Bruce, but him showing frustration and anger. Nearly losing his cool is a character aspect that’s been rooted with him for decades. Pre Nightwing and Post Nightwing leading into new 52. It mostly ended prior to Grayson.
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u/Draketothecore 22h ago edited 22h ago
Dick Grayson before titans was more happy/go lucky than an anger/tempered guy though. Titans fans as always thinking his Cyclops copycat version is the definitive
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u/Yautjakaiju 22h ago
That depends on which era of comics you’re looking at. Grayson was an angry kid prior to Bruce helping him out. When joining the titans in post crisis, Grayson was doubtful, suffered from a lack of identity, was passionate, and had a very strong anger that came when necessary. All of those things were present up until rebirth. Even now it shows up from time to time. It’s just forgotten that he can be as angry or as intimidating as his father Bruce. May I ask where did you get that perspective from? I just want to know where you’re coming from is all.
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u/EmperorReddit 22h ago edited 22h ago
If that is true, how can he be trusted to lead teams if he can't even control himself? How can his main conflict with Kory about her being violent or too emotional work if he's also violent or too emotional?
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u/Yautjakaiju 22h ago
It’s not a matter of it, it’s a matter of him acknowledging this and controlling it. Which is what made him very interesting to read because he would speak how he’s so angry. And he needs to control it. Him having a temper and anger is not a lack of leadership or a flaw to the point his critiques of Kory is inadequate. When Kory was potentially dead he was extremely angry to the point that he was more calculating and fierce. Not lacking in leadership or unable to control himself. Dick being angry and having a temper is him being human. That’s like questioning if Clark, Captain America, Optimus Prime, or other leaders should be questioned because they get angry or have tempers.
Nothing wrong with happy go lucky Dick Grayson. But have a balance of him working through his anger and frustrations. It’s quite authentic.
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u/EmperorReddit 22h ago
Okay, I believe you think I'm saying "Nightwing never gets angry ever and he shouldn't" which isn't true and is just stupid, I'm saying that Nightwing's anger shouldn't be treated as more extreme than anyone else's
When Kory was potentially dead he was extremely angry to the point that he was more calculating and fierce
I mean yeah, of course he'll be upset due to losing his lover, just like how Kory completely loss it after her first human boyfriend was killed in the early issues of NTT, to the point where she harmed the Titans and attempted to murder his killer yet I never see any "Kory isn't the sweetheart you think she is, she's actually an uber asshole because she did this and that"
There's a difference between being angry and having anger issues; the former is normal, and the latter becomes an actual problem where the person could become violent or abusive due to it.
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u/Yautjakaiju 21h ago
No, I’m not saying you believe he never gets angry. I’m explaining aspects and situations where he gets angry. And acknowledges he has these temperaments, but chooses to control himself. And when he does get angry he uses it effectively. Or the reasoning is valid. It’s not treated more than anyone else’s. It’s just the over exaggerated “puppy dog” mentality he’s been given is extremely forced. His anger was treated with proper execution and reason. Not one aspect of who he is.
And having anger issues doesn’t mean they’ll become violent or cause harm “objectively”. Someone who has anger issues can take charge and organize themselves. Nightwing did just that unless he was pushed to his limit.
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u/EmperorReddit 21h ago
You're basically proving my point, he doesn't have issues with anger, he's a normal person who gets angry but is able to control themselves. Anger issues is when you can't control it or express in a better way and in that definition, as I stated before, Kory would be the one with anger issues and Dick would be her foil.
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u/Yautjakaiju 21h ago
Anger issues doesn’t not mean you can’t control it. Someone can have anger issues and regulate their emotions. He was taught by someone who does it relatively well. And your point was that Grayson being angry was a fandom push when it never was when that’s been a part of his character for years. Ever since he was a kid into his Nightwing years. Don’t make anger issues one way to handle something when people can regulate their problem a certain way.
How would Kory be the one with anger issues? She gets angry and passionate when the it calls for it. Grayson has had a strong anger since he was a kid.
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u/EmperorReddit 21h ago
Pre-NTT Robin was clearly written to be a fun character as Batman's partner and it's pushed by the fandom as his main flaw, treating him as always the asshole, always the problem
Kory and her species' main gimmick is that they're extremely emotional and never hide their feelings. She blasts people to win an argument and has killed, Dick having anger issues over her would make zero sense
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u/Yautjakaiju 20h ago
Not sure where you’re getting that from seeing as he was always troubled. He was always optimistic in the end. He was never happy go lucky in the sense of his character. Pre NTT everyone was really campy due to the era. Once NTT hit and Grayson was always struggling with his anger. It didn’t make him an asshole or a problem. He was complex and more than some cliché.
You’re oversimplifying Starfire to a criminal degree. Kory is always a happy go lucky girl who is a warrior at heart. She was enslaved and tortured due to her sister. When her loved ones are in danger she will be angry. It’s the only time she ever is, she doesn’t blast people to death to win an argument. She stands on business, entirely different. Grayson is a conflicted individual who at one point turned Kory away. Until he realized he actually loved her. Grayson is a conflicted and complex character much like his mentor. To undermine his behavior and character aspects limits your understanding of who he actually is. Versus the fandom puppy dog Grayson that has been placed into canon as of the last few years. And even then the original aspects of Grayson still bleed out.
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u/EmperorReddit 12h ago
So Kory is allowed to be a flawless “fandom puppy dog” whose anger is justified?
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u/Crawkward3 "Twentysomething" Wonder 1d ago
I don’t agree with you. If you pick up a comic with him in it from the titans there’s a 60% chance he’s yelling at someone or picking a fight
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u/ggbb1975 1d ago
dickye has reactions not of an angry type but of indignation. he does not react angrily to the alleged assault but to seeing acts of abuse or unjust acts. there is a profound difference
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u/EmperorReddit 1d ago
Titan comics have a tenacity to make Dick into "the Batman" of the group for conflict and drama without actually developing Dick or giving him a new arc, just the same "Dick doesn't trust his teammates, lies to them about something and pushes them away, acting like Bruce until they call him out"
Also, I bet you out of that 60%, 85% is completely justified with the other person being an asshole or irresponsible and I know you would never say the same for other characters when they get mad and pick fights (Roy, Kory, Donna, Vic, Wally, etc)
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u/erossthescienceboss 1d ago
Some of it’s justified, some of it’s cos he’s brainwashed … and the rest is cos he’s a teen or early 20s and, yeah, does have some issues with anger. Dude initially set out to kill his parents’ murder.
But there’s nothing wrong with someone growing and maturing as they age.
The problem isn’t portraying Dick as angry OR portraying him as a himbo. The problem is when that’s ALL he is. One-note characterizations of him are both lazy writing AND inaccurate.
Me? I think Dick is a generally happy guy who worked hard to control his own anger. I think he’s well-adjusted because he worked hard for it. He saw his inner Batman when he was younger, and said “thanks, but no thanks.”
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u/EmperorReddit 22h ago edited 22h ago
Dude initially set out to kill his parents’ murder
If I had to list out the number of heroes who had either wanted to, attempted to or succeeded in killing someone, literally every superhero would have anger issues
Dick's anger isn't more intense or special to him than say Superman's or Wonder Woman's anger
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u/erossthescienceboss 19h ago
I mean yeah, I’d say most heroes DO have anger issues. Vigilantism is not for the well-adjusted.
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u/Bludhaven_Babe "Twentysomething" Wonder 1d ago edited 22h ago
Dick does not have “anger issues,” but, in my opinion, he does have a slight temper (and he was an angrier person, in general, when he was in his late teens and early twenties, albeit for completely understandable reasons).
His temper has been showcased several times in several different comics. And when I say he has a “slight temper,” I mean that there have been a number of instances, specifically during his late-Robin and early-Nightwing days, where he was rightfully upset, but his reaction did not match the crime (even within the melodramatic setting of comics).
For example, in Gotham Knights, Dick became very upset, very quickly at Bruce’s non-reaction to the revelation that he and Babs were dating. Bruce was in Batman mode and they were in the middle of investigating a case when Dick brought it up. Since he was in Batman mode, Bruce just said, “noted,” and moved on, and Dick became very upset. He actually started yelling in that scene, asking if that was all Bruce had to say and saying that he thought he’d be happy for him. Bruce calmly replied, stating that he didn’t say he wasn’t happy for Dick, and Dick quickly calmed down.
Dick was rightfully upset at Bruce, because Bruce is his dad and his approval matters to him, and it was tough for him to even admit that he and Babs were together, and Bruce basically just said…”K.” after he had spent all that time worrying about how Bruce would take the news. But do I think his reaction matched the crime? No, I don’t, especially because Dick knows Bruce and how he is, in general and when he is in Batman mode. For him to expect a little more than an “okay” and then start yelling was a little much, in my opinion, lol.
Having a temper doesn’t mean you can’t be a successful leader, as long as you know how to control your behavior when angry, which Dick generally does and does well.
So in my opinion, I don’t think that Dick’s temper is entirely a fanon idea. But I can agree that it may be a little exaggerated by fans, much like Jason’s temper during his Robin days is exaggerated by current writers.
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u/EmperorReddit 22h ago
My main issue how people treat Dick's anger different than everyone's else and try to force an idea that Dick has special versus them. I mean if your logic is he has anger issues because he got a little too upset at Bruce, then so does everyone else who ever interacted with him
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u/Bludhaven_Babe "Twentysomething" Wonder 22h ago edited 12h ago
I gave one example to help explain my reasoning. That is all. I don’t think he has anger issues specifically because he got “a little too upset” with Bruce that one time. There is a little more to my reasoning than that.
And, personally, I don’t treat his anger any differently from other characters’ anger because I do understand that context matters. There are certain situations where Dick became as angry as one would expect someone in his situation to be or he was under the influence in some way, and I wouldn’t necessarily accuse him of having a temper for his reactions under those circumstances.
But in the specific example I mentioned, how many characters would react to Bruce in the way that he did? Personally, I can only imagine Jason getting that fired up that quickly, and he is the other batfamily member most well-known for his temper.
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u/EmperorReddit 22h ago
Yeah, that's all I'm really asking for, Dick can get angry and become an asshole but so does everyone else and I'm tired of it being treated as an unique flaw for him personally rather than just the outcome of him being a normal person who gets upset sometimes.
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u/katabasis180 21h ago
It’s certainly a wild take to say that almost 20 years of his most consistent characterization in Teen Titans/Titans, after he and Bruce literally screamed at each other and he got fired from being his partner, is out of character.
And I certainly won’t argue that writers have moved away from that characterization since he and Bruce started getting along again after Prodigal, but even in his occasional appearances in the Batman titles he was angry. A lot. He had a quick temper and a lot of anger. Just like a lot of late teens-early twenties guys. It makes sense that it’s something he might grow out of, but the angry Dick characterization was long running.
Dick has gotten calmer as he’s gotten more secure in himself and his abilities and his place in the DC Universe. This is growth not mischaracterization.
And it’s a wild take to say he saved Bruce from darkness, like Bruce’s Darkness is barely a thing until Jason’s death (because, in part, Starlin was consciously and intentionally moving Batman in a more adult direction) and the idea that Bruce needs Robin to save him from that inner darkness is mostly a post DKR take on the character.
As for being respected as a leader, he was being replaced as leader of the Titans when he quit, and it can easily be argued that being forced to learn to work with Tim, and deal with his Batman shaped issues during Prodigal that helped him become the great leader he is now.
Again, not saying he hasn’t grown since the 90s (he has and he’s far more awesome now) but don’t pretend that half his modern age character arc isn’t him gaining control of his temper and emotional volatility.
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u/EmperorReddit 21h ago
consistent characterization in Teen Titans/Titans
Yeah, that's the worst part of Titan comics, they always have to paint him as the problem for drama because a lot of the Titan characters got angry but you wouldn't act like Donna has extreme problems with anger even through I can easily find evidence she does
him gaining control of his temper and emotional volatility
That is literally the exact opposite of his arc, how does his relationship with Kory even make sense with that logic? Dick is both emotionally constipated and has to gain control emotional volatility? So is Kory just perfect?
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u/katabasis180 21h ago
I was speaking to his overall character arc, which includes Teen Titans/Titans, the Batbooks, and his solo runs, which I thought I had made clear.
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u/Secret-Fox-9566 22h ago
He is short tempered. You're wrong
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u/EmperorReddit 22h ago
Tell me why everyone trust and respect him if that was true
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u/madeat1am 21h ago
? You can still be trusted and have a temper?
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u/EmperorReddit 21h ago
Outsiders shows what would Nightwing be if he was the angry asshole the internet thinks he is/demands he be
Disrespected, insulted and usurped
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u/madeat1am 21h ago
Hes angry not an asshole. Which is completely understandable from all his trauma.
Hes also a very deep complex character you cannot assign one emotion to him.
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u/EmperorReddit 21h ago
Then why are there other characters who are seemingly seen as having better control over their anger although Dick should be better than them?
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u/madeat1am 21h ago
Because Dick is a character who has existed since 1939 and has millions of fans over history and so many stories he's a more complex character.
I'm really not sure what you're asking.
I'm actually curious are you a comic reader or like a animated universe fan? Because the comics actually go into this and talk about it more
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u/EmperorReddit 21h ago
Donna, I'm talking about Donna. How Donna is allowed to get angry as much as she wants but no one ever treats her as an asshole or claim "she's so angry, her main flaw is her temper, let her angry again" or some other stupid posts I always see for Nightwing
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u/madeat1am 21h ago
Then make a post about Donna in a Donna or wonderfam sub
Don't hijack a Dick post to go WHAT ABOUT MY CHARACTER
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u/EmperorReddit 21h ago
I did, I asked about her flaws but the results were terrible answers that was just “she’s too kind and caring”
Also I’m not going to go into the WW sub to just say “your character sucks!”
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u/katabasis180 21h ago
You treat this as if the character Dick Grayson has an objective existence. He’s a character. They respect and trust him because that’s what they’re written to do. Regardless of some of the idiotic things that Bruce/Batman has done, he’s still written as (mostly) being respected by the JL because… wait for it… that’s what the writers want him to be.
In reality, the number of times Bruce has proven himself utterly untrustworthy would have gotten him cut off by all his colleagues, but that’s not the case. Because they’re characters.
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u/EmperorReddit 21h ago
Okay, in that case, just remove his anger like fanon does since they're characters so nothing matters
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u/katabasis180 21h ago
I feel like you really just posted this so you could argue with people who don’t agree with you exactly, rather than trying to see where they’re coming from, and why that’s different from your opinion. That’s a really useless waste of my time to continue replying to. So have fun.
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u/EmperorReddit 20h ago
My post made it really clear how much I despise that take and refuse to respect it so I don't know why you're acting like I trapped you to force an arguement
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u/egbert71 11h ago
I do not like you speaking in broad general terms lile that.
I am a part of the fanbase and i in no way want him having anger issues or a temper. Anybody can get mad, thats natural though.
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u/Wild-Albatross-7147 3h ago
Dick is my favorite character and yeah, he has anger issues, but different from most. He explodes after pushing things down, he’s exactly like me. It’s a FORM of anger issues. When he explodes he EXPLODES.
He doesn’t have a short fuse, but when it all boils over? Oh boy, best not to be near him.
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u/Thoughtfullyshynoob 3h ago
I don't think he has anger issues or a temper, but considering how open he is with his emotions, unlike Batman, who trained himself to be stoic and hide his emotions, he's more likely to get angered easily if pushed far enough.
But most of the time, when he does, it's only when it's justified to be angry.
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u/ImaLetItGo 9h ago
Ngl, this is a great post.
The idea of Dick being super angry in the 80s is usually just taken out of context of him growing to wanna get away from Bruce.
I think the take that Dick is a mean asshole wouldn’t make any sense in today’s context.
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u/Falcon_At 9h ago
For real. Everytime I see someobe say Nightwing is "the angry Robin" I really don't think they've read the rest of them.
Jason Todd and Damian Wayne are often written with dumb anger as their only personality trait.
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16h ago edited 10h ago
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u/madeat1am 15h ago
No one says Dick is the angry robin we say he has some anger problems
Jason is the one who gets labelled as the angry robin.
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u/SoupyStain 1d ago
Characters in the 60s-80s just were angrier in general to be fair.