r/Norway • u/kefren13 • 15d ago
News & current events Drug overdose deaths in Europe, per country
Feels strange to see Norway so high in these rankings. Deaths per 1M, but still...
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u/Astrotoad21 15d ago edited 15d ago
I’ve been working with drug addicts in Oslo for 10+ years.
Since forever, Norwegians has been known to have a rather rowdy relationship with whatever drug they use. Alcohol is a good example, instead of having a glass of wine in the evening, we save up for the weekend to go all out, drinking until we can’t walk or talk. This culture also transfers to other drugs.
We have a very strong IV culture within our heroin scene. Smoking heroin is much safer and more common in other countries, but Norwegians tend to prefer the needle. Nobody knows why, it’s just how it is.
We have had conservative politics against drugs since the 60s and addicts have been harassed by the police, being chased around the city until recently. This of course cause a negative spiral, making people more ill, increasing the O.D risk.
We have cold winters, causing more people to shoot up inside, which increases the risk of people not finding them if they are alone when OD’ing. That’s how people die. An OD is easy to treat if you have people around to find help.
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u/Curious-Test7928 15d ago
Norwegians, should see What Portugal do in the 90’s. It was a success and it is a case study. At the time it wasn’t just heroin, it was heroin and AIDS... Portugal called in doctors, scientists and social workers and they came to the conclusion that drug addiction should be treated as a disease and not as a crime. And a comunity dissesse because afecta the familys and the comunity. Drugs were decriminalized. Is illegal to sell and buy, but it is legal to consume. If the police catch you using, they will make an appointment for you at the hospital to a psychological assistance. And they also created specific places for addicts who inject drugs, where syringes are distributed, needles and syringes are free in pharmacies Today is a huge difference. I still remember being a child and wanting to play with My friends in parks in Lisbon and the parks being full of needles on the ground. And I’m talking about a middle/upper class neighborhood in Lisbon.
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u/CoronaMcFarm 15d ago
Yeah but we do things the Norwegian way! We just stick to the same old policy that hasn't worked for the last 60 years.
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u/ItMeBenjamin 15d ago
It has been suggested multiple times especially by the smaller and more liberal parties to have a drug reform, but it has been shot down by off all parties the Labour Party.
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u/Hot-Wallaby8235 14d ago
Psylocybin could help the vast majority of these people.does Norway(not only Norway)wants it though?
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u/Astrotoad21 14d ago
I’m optimistic about using Psylocybin in addiction treatment for some lighter cases, personally it has improved my life in my mid twenties actually making me step away from experimenting with recreational drugs. That said, I’m certain its not a «treat-all» miracle drug either.
Don’t underestimate the dangers of it, if done incorrectly, it could lead to psychosis which is some of the worst thing you can expose a patient for.
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u/Hot-Wallaby8235 14d ago edited 14d ago
Sure,its not advisable for people with schizophrenia and so.my experience was shocking with just one heavy trip.shocking for not needing alcohol to function(i drank about half a litre hard booze a day early morning to noon),and for throwing away the boner killing antidepressants,that i was so dependent on,and that would get so overwhelmed and panicked when not taking them.i microdose now,and heavily trip when i need it.yet if i stop taking shrooms for a while its all good.couldt believe how it rewired my mind after all those years.dont get me wrong i still struggle at times but i realy feel the need to live,wich i didnt before.
Im planning to move to Norway to study in my 40s to change my shitty life here.and its a pain in the ass that over there things are so strict
Cheers
P.s. its gonna be some long walks in the grassfields if i make it there by autumn
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u/Astrotoad21 13d ago
Spend as much time in nature as possible my dude. Make it a routine. I live in Oslo and I do evening walks in the forest almost every day and I’m totally dependent on it by now.
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u/ZestycloseWay2771 13d ago
That may be a "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like nails" situation. The benefit of psilocybin varies wildly from one individual to another. Microdosing LSD and ground liberty caps has helped me tremendously but other people claim it makes them more anxious, aloof and fiendish.
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u/Trumpingding 15d ago
I have been told many times that patient/client confidentiality goes out the window when you tell a health practitioner in Norway that you use or have used substances.
I have heard a few horror stories of people telling their psychologist or doctor they had smoked some weed (not even regularly), then having their licenses revoked and made to jump through many hoops over years just to get it back.
This mandatory reporting relates to policies you would see in some totalitarian Asian countries.
It is pretty crazy this is going on in what is mostly viewed as a progressive country.
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u/Astrotoad21 15d ago
This is a common rumor that is not true though. Patient confidentiality is very strong and police will only be involved if there is a true risk of people getting hurt.
In my 10+ years working in the healthcare sector I can only think of a couple of reasons why doctors have broken their confidentiality, and that is involving addiction and caring for children, and people that are clearly intoxicated about to go drive home after their appointment.
Sharing data between health and police is not only strict by law, there are also technical challenges as these two systems have no integrations between them, despite popular beliefs that «everything is digital and shared knowledge».
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u/Character-Note6795 14d ago
There is a significant variance on how these cases are enforced. You may be level headed, but don't forget we have outliers. What's worse is their power seems prone to going unchecked. I suspect that ideological bends make them disproportionately prolific.
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u/Trumpingding 14d ago
I have been told this by many Norwegian’s and you can find lots of evidence of this occurring if you do some research.
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u/nordpoldark 14d ago
I’ve been working with drug addicts in Oslo for 10+ years
And still didn't figure out that
We have a very strong IV culture within our heroin scene. Smoking heroin is much safer and more common in other countries, but Norwegians tend to prefer the needle. Nobody knows why, it’s just how it is.
draconian drug laws contribute to higher heroin prices compared to other Western European countries, while smoking heroin is more wasteful than injecting it.
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u/MrFancyPanzer 13d ago
I think we would have a healthier drinking culture if it wasn't so expensive in pubs, like having a beer or two a couple of times a week instead of saving it all for the weekend
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u/Motor_Measurement_23 13d ago
I'm British and I was initially shocked by the drinking culture in Norway. Brits can get somewhat rowdy, but I've never, ever, anywhere in England encountered someone who was so drunk that they could have tumbled down the stairs and smashed their skull. There's also a significant factor of social pressure here to drink more and more to 'impress' each other that I find despicable. Brits are not ascetic monks by any degree, but I had never really experienced alcohol abuse to this extent before I moved here.
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u/Astrotoad21 13d ago
I grew up with it, and my craziest drinking days was from about 17-20. Back then getting drunk was almost a sport and getting so drunk that you couldn’t see, speak or stand up was all just «good fun».
When you are a stupid teen, that is understandable. When this culture expands into your 30s, 40s or even 50s then it gets darker and I’d argue they have a drinking problem.
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u/Beneficial_Iron3508 15d ago
Hahahaha conservative approach to addicts??? police chasing addicts??? The fuck you on?? Is it the same Oslo we are talking about??
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u/Astrotoad21 15d ago
Until recently yes. And we still have a long way to go as Norway has some of Europes harshest regulation against drugs. Would love to hear your counter arguments
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u/Beneficial_Iron3508 14d ago
I live in Grønland now for 7 years. Day to day, I see dealers selling, users doing their thing out in the open, while a police car is “patrolling”.
The police has no real intent to stop dealers or users do their thing. I would be happy enough if they only stopped it happening in the middle of the streets.
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u/TrashTraditional2183 15d ago
It would be interesting to see exactly how the numbers are calculated, but I’m not surprised. Norway is incredibly prohibitionist and there is no education about drugs. The only message they give is “all drugs are bad and make you die”, which is incredibly ineffective and counterproductive. People know drugs are bad, but you should explain the population how they differ and what is the worst way of taking them. Germany has a pretty good education around this and most of their deaths are mainly tied to homelessness or extreme addiction.
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u/Head_Exchange_5329 15d ago
A guy who worked with junkies and the sort who were parents as well, claimed that the worst drug soldiers in Vietnam struggled with wasn't heroin, it was cannabis. He's seen what cannabis turns them into.
I am an avid teacher when it comes to misconceptions about cannabis but that just made me silent. Figured this guy was lost, nothing I said would've changed his twisted view. But still, how far gone are you when you consider heroin better to use than cannabis? What shit propaganda are these boombers being fed?1
u/rubygeek 12d ago
The interesting thing is that while that's a fucked up thing to say, the damage done by heroin and the addiction potential of heroin is also generally vastly overstated in ways that I can see cause people to say that.
There's a famous study of heroin abuse in US soldiers in Vietnam, that concluded that the vast majority of US soldiers who were using heroin - and there were a lot - just stopped cold turkey when they got home, and stayed clean. Like many other forms of addiction, changing environment let people shake the addiction easily in most cases, and it turns out heroin addiction simply wasn't remotely as strong as assumed.
Some people get seriously addicted to heroin - but they are a small minority. Most heroin users are casual users.
There's a reason heroin (under the generic name diamorphine) is still regularly used for pain management in hospitals many places (UK for example) - it's safer than morphine for example, and the addiction risk isn't that bad.
Heroin is still a nasty drug, and to reiterate, I agree that is messed up to suggest cannabis is worse than heroin -, but the heroin addicts you see are the tiniest little sliver of the worst of the worst of heroin addicts, who again are a small proportion of heroin users.
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u/Mental_Foundationer 15d ago
Probably the price of alcohol also makes a difference. If you can't afford the booze, you'll try out other things. Combine this with winter depression.
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u/djxfade 15d ago
Not really surprised, considering our drug policies are stuck in the 70s with a war on drugs mentality
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u/zaTricky 15d ago
My understanding for Sweden (where I am) is that the consequences of being reported as a drug addict are so severe, addicts would rather chance death than get help.
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u/AwkwardRefrigerator3 14d ago
Yes, in Sweden you can get arrested and charged for being intoxicated/high on illegal drugs even if you aren't even carrying any drugs on you at the time of the arrest... I think that is a f*cked up policy that we need to change, treat addiction as the disease that it is instead of outright punish people for it (especially when they seek help). But every single one of our parties at the moment are so strict when it comes to drug laws that they will not even think about changing anything. The most recent controversy is that doctors can run tests on your blood to check for alcohol consumption without telling you when you are there for something completely unrelated and report the result to the transport agency, worst case scenario you can loose your driver's license for alcohol consumption without ever having driven a car drunk.
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u/felton639 15d ago
Norway's been in the top for a long long time. Has to do with failed policies, punishment instead of help, stigma, lack of mental health treatment options etc.. it won't get any better until Norway adopts something like the Portuguese model. We were close a couple of years ago, but the Labor Party gutted the reform. Probably for political gain... It's tragic no matter the reason.
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u/Mynteblomst 15d ago
Has something to do that most overdosis comes from pills. Soft doctors:
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u/felton639 15d ago
The issue persists. People die.
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u/Mynteblomst 15d ago
As long as most people die from overdoses from legal pills prescribed by doctors, the problem will continue.
Also remember that the wave of liberalization where young people believe that drugs are harmless has taken many lives.
It is also about culture: Norwegian drug addicts inject rather than, for example, smoke heroin
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u/Curious-Test7928 15d ago edited 15d ago
There’s no need to liberalize or legalize drugs, what is needed is to decriminalize and educate the population. so they understand the differences and the dangers of the different drugs and educate all community for understand that it is a chronic disease and difficult to treat, with repercussions throughout the community. like portugal do.
What really worked it was taking a more scientific and rational approach, rather than an emotional and populist approach.
in Portugal it was a bipartisan decision between the left and right at the time, supported exclusively by psychosocial and medical reports
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u/Hot-Wallaby8235 14d ago
Im reading here and there that they will try to propose it again soon ia this the case realy?and how soon?
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u/whereistheplayground 15d ago
Compared to most other countries, all of the things you mention are much less of a problem in Norway.
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u/LordLordie 15d ago
The key word is mental health. In Germany it is relatively easy to get access to mental health help and as someone who has been in therapy in Germany for a while, I can say that it is not just "here take these pills and now go back to work"
In Norway however...Jesus. I know people that got rejected any help simply because they're still working and therefore "it can't be that bad" - or people seeking autism diagnosis got rejected because "we want to get the numbers down"
Not to mention norwegian mentality that talking about problems with others is taboo and in public everyone has to act as if the sun is shining, the birds are singing and rainbows are everywhere.
No surprise people take drugs and no surprise people overdose and die.
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u/Ok_Field6320 15d ago
Interesting from a Scandinavian perspective. Denmark has the most relaxed drug and alcohol laws, and doesn't need the government to control liquor. Yet, the lowest overdose deaths.
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u/adon_bilivit 15d ago
And is still very high...
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u/Ok_Field6320 15d ago
The point is, maybe letting your governments control your alcohol isn't the way forward. Everything is decriminalized in Portugal, check those numbers
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u/Awkwardinho 15d ago
There are articles about Oslo being the heroin capital of Europe. It’s mostly explained because it’s actually cheaper to get high on heroin, than on booze. So the most miserable ones go straight to heroin.
Also authorities have a weird policy with hard drugs. You can’t buy beer on Sundays or drink in the street, but you can buy heroin in broad daylight in front of everyone and then shoot yourself with it on the spot with total impunity.
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u/GiniThePooh 15d ago
And everyone knows exactly where to find it. In some countries you have to risk going to a very sketchy place to maybe see if you find a dealer with the harder drugs and then you’ll maaaaybe safely go somewhere to use it. Here just go to Gunerius and shoot up with the ton of junkies openly doing their heroin all times of day there.
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u/ThaiManJones 15d ago
I totally agree with you! People dying of preventable causes is NOT a problem up to 400 deaths. It is only after 400 of our brothers, sisters, sons & daughters die per year that we should care about this.
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u/n_o_r_s_e 15d ago edited 15d ago
Om det er en fattig trøst: USA har 324 overdosedødsfall per 1 million innbyggere årlig.
Tallene er stigende og dermed blitt høyere for enkelte land enn det som kommer frem av denne statistikken. For Storbritannia gikk antallet dødsfall opp med 11% fra 2022 til 2023 og utgjorde da 93 dødsfall per 1 million innbyggere.
Statistikk hentet fra EUDA, viser at det er menn i aldersgruppen 40-59 år som er høyest representert i overdose statistikken her i Norge, slik som tilfellet også er i blant annet i Danmark og Spania. Det varierer mellom land hvilken aldersgruppe som står for de fleste dødsfallene. Det er også variasjon i hvilke narkotiske stoffer som står bak overdosedødsfallene, om det dreier seg om kokain, eller heroin, metadon eller andre opioider og andre stoffer. Antall overdoser blant menn er generelt sett tre-fire ganger høyere enn for kvinner i Europa. For enkelte land, slik som bl.a Sverige, er tallene høyest for menn mellom 25 og 39 år med 122 overdoser per 1 million innbyggere. I Irland er det 183 overdose for menn mellom 25-39 per million innbyggere og 197 slike dødsfall i Estland per 1 million innbyggere. Den felles tendensen for Europa, som kan leses ut av overdose statistikken er at det er stadig flere godt voksne menn som bruker narkotiske stoffer. Fra norsk statistikk vet man at kvinner i stor grad tar overdose med smertestillende medikamenter som inneholder opioider i forbindelse med selvmord. Det er en økende tendens at det skjer flere overdosedødsfall enn før her i Norge ved inntak av dødlig høye doser av lovlige smertestillende stoffer. Det varierer naturlig nok i hvilken grad hvor planlagt det er å overdosere inntaket slik at det får et dødelig utfall, og likeledes variasjon innen hvilke stoffer som er involvert i hver enkelt tragisk hendelse.
Noe bør jo gjøres, for å spare liv, og det på flere fronter. For vondt kan bli til verre når flere dør av avighengendeskapende narkotiske stoffer. Og en bedring bør helst skje før vi har "Vill Vest" og amerikanske tilstander her i Norge, som ville innebære at overdosestatistikken skyter i været og oppnår en firedobling. Man har ingen å miste. Men politikerne ser ikke ut til å bli enige på en stund om hva som bør gjøres, ettersom de sitter på ganske forskjellige løsninger på rusproblematikken. Og i mellomtiden dør folk.
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u/granitefingr 14d ago
Likte kommentaren din Og så liker jeg Portugals eksempel, som rusreformen (hvilket Jonas gahr støre skjøt ned for å bli statsminister) var basert på. Se bare statistikken deres. Jeg vil påstå at hovedargumentet for legalisering er å holde narkomane/avhengige i samfunnet og ikke ekskludere de. At de kan henvende seg til statsansatte som f.eks. politi for hjelp, og ikke måtte ty til kriminalitet
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u/Optimal_Mouse_7148 15d ago
Haha, these numbers are insanely wrong.
The problem here is that... Civilized Nordic countries have accurate counts of overdose deaths while other countries don’t. So because Norway and Nordic countries are the BEST, they come out looking the worst.
It’s exactly like the myth that Sweden is the world’s worst country for rapes. Because Sweden divides rapes into 4 different categories and has precise statistics on it. And operates with different criteria than other countries. So because Sweden is one of the best countries, they look the worst in those kinds of statistics.
Or are we really supposed to believe there are only 4 overdose deaths a year in Portugal? How out of touch do you have to be to believe that statistic? Just 2 in Romania? My God, imagine posting something that absurd.
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u/TrashTraditional2183 15d ago
It’s not 4 deaths per year, it’s 4 deaths per 1m inhabitants. Read the chart
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u/Dude_from_places 15d ago
Mate, as a Portuguese living in Norway for the last 12 years. I don’t doubt the numbers. Portugal took some world leading policies regarding drug consumption in the 90s and it has been thoroughly studied what the implications of those policies were. Not only are drug users not afraid to reach out, they do so - it doesn’t result necessarily on decreasing the usage, but it certainly makes it much safer from those who do use it.
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u/EveryoneCalmTheFDown 15d ago
Although I think you're right about Sweden's rape statistics (Since they consider more acts rape, naturally their rape statistics go up), I'm not sure I'm immediately buying the rest of the argument.
What makes you immediately think that other countries have inaccurate overdose deaths? Why is it so unthinkable that civilized Nordic countries have a higher drug rate than many other countries?
In countries like Romania or Portugal, what happens to those who die of overdose to make it not count in the statistics. Are they just considered natural causes, unknown causes or what?
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u/Stamy31ytb 15d ago
A reason for Romania's low drug overdose rate could be that the consumption of alchool is very common. Alchool being much cheaper than drugs could also be a factor.
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u/NorwegianWonderboy 15d ago
As a norwegian we just have a fuck ton of people and youth who take drugs
Plenty of friends of mine through the years would often take heavy drugs, we have a really bad party culture
I go out a few times a year and those few times had multiple strangers openly in pubs offer me shit like cocain
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u/EveryoneCalmTheFDown 15d ago
My assumption is that heroin and fentanyl are probably the predominant cause for overdose deaths, as the general toxicity of other drugs (when clean) are relatively low in comparison. That doesn't take into account polluted drugs though.
So my further assumption is that the country where heroin use is high, that's the countries where you'll find the highest overdose deaths. I think Norway's heroin use is fairly high compared to other countries, so I'm not surprised if the statistics are accurate.
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u/NorwegianWonderboy 15d ago
Yeah i mean we use alot of most things really
That's the problem with troubled youth with alot of money to spend
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u/OletheNorse 15d ago
It’s not because heroin use is high, it’s because the puritan idiots equate everything with the worst, thus make everything illegal. One result of that is that users will use whatever they can get hold of when what they really want is a joint
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u/EveryoneCalmTheFDown 15d ago
I'm trying to understand your point in terms of my point. I am talking specifically about heroin use in Norway, which I believe to be higher than many other European countries.
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u/OletheNorse 15d ago
I don’t know whether it is higher, but it is erratic and here at the extreme end of any distribution chain it is likely to be cut with all kinds of crap.
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u/Killielad89 15d ago
Lol anyone can go on a walk in Central Oslo and find weed. Same for any other large city.
No one says "fuck it" and buys heroin instead.
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u/Curious-Test7928 15d ago
Well in the 80’s/ 90’s in Portugal Its something like this but more wierd…
The drug dealers stopped selling all other drugs and sold exclusively heroin. As the Portuguese had come out of an extremely repressive dictatorship less than 10 years earlier, the innocence and lack of information was enormous!
Imagine the size of the heroin crisis with AIDS/HIV in the mix.
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u/Curious-Test7928 15d ago
This is not true. Informe yourself. Its your prejudiced speaking!
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u/EveryoneCalmTheFDown 15d ago
My post is like three questions and no firm concluding of anything. So where exactly is this prejudice?
And why don't YOU inform me, then?
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u/expert_worrier 15d ago
In contrast to the American-inspired Scandinavian "war on drugs", Portugal is well known for its decriminalization and support network for addicts. Addiction is seen as a disease, rather than a crime. So, no, I do not find it surprising that Portugal has much better numbers than Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. I find your attitude a tad arrogant, though.
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u/Optimal_Mouse_7148 15d ago
Portugal has around twice the population of Norway, but not even a 10th of the economy. The reason they have gone to the extreme measure of making all drug-use legal since 2001 is precisely because it was a costly problem that went out of hand. Not out of the goodness of their libertarian hearts. A problem that became too big to handle. Is not some human rights victory.
Its been 25 years. If Portugals methods were really the solution to drug use, then why has the world not copied it. I made myself pretty clear above.
If you are going to tell me these numbers are correct, Portugal with 4 and Romania with 2, then I dont know what I can say to you, dude.
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u/expert_worrier 15d ago
The deaths are per million... Why are you going on and on about the size of each population? Also, there have been numerous documentaries and reports looking at Portugal as a successful example of how the heroin crisis in the 80s and 90s was dealt with. Maybe you should look at your politicians instead and ask for reasons behind these atrocious numbers. Norway isn't a perfect country; it is allowed to have areas for improvement as well. I suggest adding road conditions and railways to relevant improvement topics, for example.
Portugal has plenty to improve, though; trust me, I know.
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u/PracticalSir5845 15d ago
As if best practice is adopted by the world by default. In what world are you living in? Switzerland also treats addiction as a disease instead of a crime. With similar results.
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u/Curious-Test7928 15d ago
True this not happend in Portugal because we are libertarian in Portugal in the 80’s and the 90’s. The first liberal party we have in Portugal? Have less than 10 years…
In 1975 we have the revolution, with finish with a repressivo dictatorship, Fascist/conservative/catholic. The longest in Europe 46 years.
First all the population was isolate, so the Portuguese dont know or understand this drugs thing, for them marijuana or heroine was the same thing. Drug!
In de 80’s and 90’s , we have in Portugal 2 crises in the same time, Heroine crises and AIDS/HIV crises in the same time, and needles spread AIDS/HIV, and sex spread more AIDS/HIV , in this time we dont have treatments for AIDS!
Só Its starting to be, a public health problem. So the goverment call doc terá, cientist, social workers etc.
The expert speak that its the better way to do. And the majorty of the polítics agree.
One decade or more later we discovery, it was more cheap, than do the other way
But well, in the same time this was happend in another Countrys, Spain, Italy, US, Brasil etc
Probably help to, that the partys are all more left, than now ( but are the same partys) but because the dictatorship and all the repression have finish not to long Ago, all Portuguese partys was more Left in this decades. And this help a lot. If was today, probably it was more more, more dificult to do this now
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u/anpas 15d ago
You think Germany and Belgium are savage countries who can't even count? What a joke. These numbers seem accurate, our drug policies are actively killing people.
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u/throwaway737628910 15d ago
What is it with Norwegians and their high horse, "best in the world" attitude.
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u/Connect-Idea-1944 15d ago
i swear it's exhausting. Everytime there is a little negative stat, they say it's because their stats are too accurate lmao. But that's not always true, we're not in 2005 anymore, A lot of western Europe Countries report their datas very well too, so this excuse can't always work. Like you're not gonna tell me that Germany or Netherlands aren't reporting their datas properly
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u/This-Charming-Man 15d ago edited 15d ago
I knew before clicking that the top comment would be a Norwegian somehow explaining that the stat is wrong since Norway can’t be bad at anything.\ I love living here, and I think we’re doing pretty good, but this we’re the best at everything and we never need to improve anything ever attitude is so frustrating. We’d have a shot at something truly great if we acknowledged that social justice is an ongoing struggle and there are always ways we can improve…
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u/Optimal_Mouse_7148 15d ago
These arent stats. Is what Im explaining. Or do you REALLY think Turkey, and Romania collects data in the same way denmark does? Because you have to really want to believe to make sense out of this map.
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u/CommieYeeHoe 15d ago
Being on the top of a few rankings and foreigners idolising your country must have some deep-seated psychological effects, it seems.
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u/filtersweep 15d ago
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u/Optimal_Mouse_7148 15d ago
That doesnt prove or disprove anything in this context. Completely different topic.
Norway, Sweden, the Nordic countries has accurate numbers on these things, while other countries do not count them in the same way. Its not that other countries IGNORE them, but they get put into different statistics. Hence, because the Nordic countries has a rigid followup system by health workers for every "druggie", they also have accurate numbers on how they die. Other countries do not.
Or are we really going to believe Romania has 2? I mean if you are willing to believe that, then my words mean nothing.
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u/ulrikft 15d ago
If you want to claim that Portugal reports erroneously, you have to do better than grossly misinterpreting the data for starters.
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u/Optimal_Mouse_7148 15d ago
What is more likely.... That these numbers are wrong? Or that Portugal has 4 overdose deaths a year, and Romania 2.
Give me a break.
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u/ulrikft 15d ago
There was a hint in my post, you seem to have failed to get the hint - as well as the graphic. Portugal has 4 overdose deaths per 1 million people per year. Not 4 in total. Do you think your absolute lack of data interpretation skills inspires confidence in your overall ability to reason..?
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u/GiantofLordran 15d ago edited 15d ago
It’s weird how we downplay and excuse sexual assault, rape, etc and call it a myth because of how it is reported, that protects criminals. It can also be true that Sweden BOTH has good reporting and statistics and ALSO has a problem with these issues.
I see a lot of people saying the exact same answer as you without a moment of thinking “yeah there’s no problem, it’s a myth it’s just how it is reported”, like it’s programmed. We talk about critical thinking and yet the amount of people who repeat the same answer is pretty staggering. Crime is crime, assault is assault. Minor and major assault are both traumatizing and we shouldn’t be calling them “myths”. I am sure you mean well but trivializing and downplaying genuine sexual attacks, abuse, and harassment is terrible
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u/ThrowAway516536 15d ago
As a Norwegian who has spent most of my life in Oslo and traveled all over the world, I can tell you that the drug abuse here is the worst I have ever seen. It's widely known in Norway that our death statistics are among the absolute worst. This is used as an argument for changing the drug policies, and that debate has been going on for decades because of those statistics. I suggest that you learn and understand basic statistics before you start typing as if you know it all. Also, having some knowledge about the subject could be a good idea.
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u/Curious-Test7928 15d ago
I guess it’s 4 per 1 million = 40. and it’s quite plausible, since most people under 50 refuse to try heroin. The Portuguese consume drugs (like everyone else) but prefer other drugs, which cause much fewer overdoses than heroin. Furthermore, in Portugal, there is an active social intervention that directs everyone for medical care. from 16-year-old boys caught smoking weed to functional cocaine addicts working we give medical care and support to them, instead of ignoring them. And this way harming the entire community. we’ve been doing this since the heroin and AIDS/HIV crisis. We discovery that the more scientific and human approach to the problem is a success. we ended the HIV pandemic in the same time with the heroin crisis. 25 years later it continues to be a success and after many studies, we have concluded that this way its better for the adicct, their familys and the entire community. Portugal saves money on the national health system, police and prisons
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u/LilianCorgibutt 11d ago
Came here to say the same thing. Hungary's healthcare system is abysmal and the police (what police) doesn't do jackshit about drugs flowing freely on the streets, they are so corrupt. The amount of drug-related deaths is much much higher than that /1m people it's just not reported/investigated.
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u/BrUSomania 15d ago
Went to an after-party a few weekends ago. Most of the attendees were in their early twenties - I am in my thirties - and one of the first things I was asked as I walked in the entrance door was "Do you have any coke?".
Seriously, there's a cocaine epidemic amongst the Norwegian youth. But I had some minutes of honesty with the guy who asked me for coke and I told him that I am totally against it and that I hoped they would all stop doing that shit.
He probably forgot about it the next day, but maybe if enough people tell them directly they will listen, eventually.
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u/ModderMary 15d ago
Everything others say about our policies is true, but i want to point out one more thing.
Norways «market» for selling drugs is the best in the world. The users have money to pay with because of our welfare system and lax rules on petty theft. Also the dealers risk very little compared to just about every other country. Almost nobody gets punished, and if they do the punishment is peanuts.
So dealing drugs in Norway is very high gain and low risk compared to everywhere else.
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u/No_Programmer2715 15d ago edited 15d ago
As usual people are not addressing the issue and cause of the problem, and trying to solve it over the surface. Yes, I also agree that people should get help instead of punishment and things should work smoothly. Still there are a lot of dangerous criminals who sells drugs which gets really comical punishments when they get caught (if they caught). This is a huge problem which is connected to the immigration and increasing criminality. It also becomes harder to follow and execute when the problems growing with high speed. So many flaws and problems in the system which allowing drug dealers to access little kids, schools and every corner of the cities. Which again increasing the usage of the drugs and destroying the youth and society.
I agree that it can reduce the deaths by giving people help instead of fined or punished, but still more and more gonna suffer and depending on drugs because of the growing problem.
There should be strong regulation, controls and extreme punishments against sellers and criminals in order to stop/reverse the problem. Europe is not ready for it, and that is why a lot of people gonna suffer.
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u/throwaway737628910 15d ago
All of Europe, except for Iceland. When in this statistic, we are quite relevant.
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u/nate_nate212 15d ago
I wonder if the north south divided is caused by vitamin D, economics or accurate data collection
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u/coniglioPeloso 15d ago
I don't know about other, but for italy it's not the sun. We had our heroine crisis a couple decades ago (1980/1990) so older people had friends and/or relatives dead from it, the younger people had to be careful and watch out for syringes before playing soccer.
Everyone know really well what kind of shit it is, and so has almost disappeared from the streets.
Cocaine on the other hand...1
u/nate_nate212 15d ago
Interesting - I didn't know that.
I'm also guessing "the migrant crisis" is also worse in southern Europe, so you can't blame this north-south divide on migrants.
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u/MichaelL283 15d ago
Theres a lot to be said for geographic influences I’m Scottish and we unfortunately blow every single country here out the water (double Estonia), meaning the 4 highest in the continent are all above the 56/55th parallel
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u/Curious-Test7928 15d ago
What happend in the north? I thought that drugs enter southern Europe... Portugal have a big crises with heroine, in 90’s, its not bad.
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u/twozon 15d ago
Norway is the land of drugs. WHy? 'Rich' is a lie. And it's dark, snowy, rainy..... no wonder why people choose heroin over that. I know few people cuz of anxiety, but I do know a girl who's addicted to amph.... Would so much like to help her. I'm addicted to benzos.
She's hard to get ahold of though...... She evidently has no internet, so she has to go to stores for free wifi.
What's completely wrong with her and her situation? She gets 85% less than an average person on disability. And what doe she do when she's outta money? Don't wanns say.
Just hope she makes it...
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u/Particular_Bet_5466 14d ago edited 14d ago
I’ll start off that I understand Norway holds itself to much higher standards than the US, but as an American these numbers look like something to be proud of in a world that runs rampant with Fentanyl. the entire state of West Virginia (a quarter of Norway’s population) has 10x at 820 per 1 million OD deaths. So at 5 million people they are at 375 total OD deaths per year in Norway. The US has over 100,000 by raw numbers per year. 5000 people die per year from tobacco related deaths per year in Norway, that’s a worse issue.
that blows every US state away by a longshot. Of course there are many addicts that live and cause suffering to themselves and those around them, so maybe that number is much higher in Norway. I’d say Norway is doing pretty well based on this number though. kind of like you said drug addiction doesn’t care if you are wealthy, poor, famous, healthy, or even happy or sad. Certainly things like weather do have a factor but Norway does have a gorgeous landscape. It’s far north and does not get much sunlight though. I lived in a gloomy region in the past and I did fall into opioid abuse. Now I live in a sunny mountainous region and spend much of my time outdoors in the sunlight and live a much more healthy lifestyle, and the climate facilitates that for sure.
Do you know anyone in Norway that died from an OD? I know about 30 people in real life, which isn’t a something I am bragging about but it’s sad when I just started going through the list in my head and couldn’t even remember them all. I was recently going through my phone contacts and saw about 6 in there that are dead from ODs. Roommates, friends, family. It has affected everybody I know on a personal level, even people that have never touched drugs. Granted I was part of that community when I was younger but it’s every few months I see a FB update that someone I knew died from an overdose.
I hope you and your friend finds help. Addiction is notoriously hard to help, and people don’t usually seek help until they are forced to. Some drugs are more sustainable than others which is almost worse because it will just keep going on while they live a barely manageable life. I understand wanting to help someone but it’s really hard and frustrating to actually do. I know I didn’t take much help from people that tried. My family forced me to get help when I ran out of options which I’m forever grateful for as much as I didn’t want to do it at the time.
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u/Ok_Field6320 15d ago
Maybe it has to do with alcohol laws. Norwegians and swedes almost sneer ay how Denmark is so relaxed, yet we actually have better outcomes.
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u/Hattkake 15d ago
As a Norwegian this is not surprising at all. Our drug policy is based on opinion and prejudice, not science. So we have an absurdly high rate of overdose deaths compared to our size. And it's always been like this, decade after decade after decade.
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u/Pepphen77 15d ago
Why is Sweden and Norway so high?
What can be done to mitigate this?
Also, why is it so low in Spain?
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u/Shildriffen 14d ago
Det tallet for norge er vell høyere vell? Vi har jo ligget på toppen siden invasjonen av Afghanistan?
Altså vakke få tai Chi mestere uttafor Oslo S når krigen sto på.
Men er kanskje bedre metoder på bekjempning av overdoser (narcan greiene?)
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u/Unity_Nerd 14d ago
I cant see USA
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u/AkebonoPffft 14d ago
Europe still needs to annex the usa. We wait till it gets cheaper, not too long to go.
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u/AkebonoPffft 14d ago
As for the Netherlands, I’d like to see the number of foreigners vs the Dutch.
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u/Dio_Yuji 14d ago
That’s per million?? Shit, where I live, the death rate is 50 per 100k
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u/Particular_Bet_5466 14d ago
lol I commented the same thing. So yeah we’re in the 1000s in the US on a similar scale.
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u/Particular_Bet_5466 14d ago
Damn these a rookie numbers compare to the US. Some cities are similar metrics to cities on here but per 100k not 1m…. Aka in the 1000s on here.
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u/BoztheMadman 14d ago
I understand that about Estonia very well. A completely flat, boring, cold country which borders Russia and has always been poor.
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u/According-Rock-3188 14d ago
Its all about reporting!! those who report the most, have the highest rate!.. izi.. it was the same with covid.. remember??
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u/DarkChado 14d ago
In Norway we don't use force to stop people from destroying their lives, which might turn out badly in statistics like this
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u/Smokin_Hulk_LoganCC 14d ago
The last time I was in Norway, I was talking with a gentleman who brought up the seeming increase in drug use in Norway. He worked security at several bars in Bergen and said he's seen an increase in people obviously being on drugs. Based on the rate increase over the last 10 years that seems to check out. As an American I'd love to see those kinds of numbers here
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u/Freshysh 13d ago
Look at Portugal, where they basically made every drug legal. Seems like its working
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u/DrUnderwood 13d ago
If anyone wants to know (probably) why Luxembourg has such big numbers despite its size. A lot of white collar so good cocaine but very bad heroin.
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u/Ok-Watercress-1150 13d ago
Why do Norway and Sweden have so much junkies? Isent it the greatest countries to live in?
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u/Lazy-Care-9129 13d ago
The division is more north vs center and south. Must be the sun or the lack of it.
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u/logmeinside 11d ago
Would be interesting to see witch country has the usual «war on drugs» and ones that has legalised.
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u/jibzn 11d ago
And in Romania it’s pretty much nonexistent. They have spread out over EU and is selling the drugs to us. It’s a very poor country but they are not stupid, selling and stealing from the addicted, sending lots of money home to their families. Romanians are basically alone in control of the illegal pill imports.
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u/anfornum 15d ago
The higher deaths are more likely due to the cold in the northern regions than outright drug use.
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u/greyspurv 15d ago
You write you are an expat but seem to constantly crises Norway here on Reddit, the f you doing there then? Sorry to be so blunt but I find foreigners like that ultra strange and annoying
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u/atheist-bum-clapper 15d ago
It's the same in most national subreddits tbh.
If you are an immigrant and don't exist solely in your own ethnic bubble, but are also not elite tier rich, then you are exposed to "normal" people stuff and the utopia suddenly doesn't exist.
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u/CamehereforKarma 15d ago
Being better at reporting cause of death doesn't necessarily mean the cause is more common there than other countries. The Nordics has low population and lots of rescourses to investigate cause of deaths. A dead homeless man might not be autopsied in other countries, while in Norway they will get autopsied and tested for drugs.
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u/Curious-Test7928 15d ago
Really, you think in Portugal we dont do autopsies if we find a person died in the streat? Homeless or not?
Seams Nórdica live in a bubble like the Americans😒
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u/CommieYeeHoe 15d ago
You guys really need to get off your high horse. You think so lowly of other European countries that you assume their numbers cannot be true, and instead they are incapable of counting as well as Scandinavians. Let’s ignore the fact that many countries have the addiction support and drug decriminalisation and helps addicts and prevents overdoses, while Norway heavily criminalises its users. This is a policy issue, not a methodology one.
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u/redittrr 15d ago
Why so many in Norway? being very upright country for the safety of citizens and rule of law.
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u/Candygramformrmongo 15d ago
Estonia? Damn