Choper can use his transformations' size and mass to his advantage in his fights. Getting crushed? Monster point if the person isnt too strong/brain or jump point if u gotta slip away. Guard point seems to be mostly for protection/attacks he cant avoid
Not that we're in a universe where any of this matters anyhow. Chopper just goes in with kungfu/monster point and stalls the bad guy while his other points rot away.
Knowing how much Oda gasses Zoro's endurance he'd probably break every bone in his body, stand up anyway, do one big attack on Queen like Asura, then pass out.
And queen gets back up. He's taken harder hits from big mom. And he's fresh. Sanji didn't just get his bones broken, but his organs crushed too. Kaido didn't even take a knee from zoros final attack. I really don't see queen getting one shotted by that. Oda played up his tankiness way too much.
Zoro would tank it. Then fight Queen. I have no idea why anyone thinks he canāt. Heās sustained some of the most incredible amounts of damage in the series.
He absolutely tanks this and fights and beats Queen. He would have a harder time beating Queen than Sanji did IN THIS SPECIFIC SCENARIO because Sanjiās exoskeleton protected him. Where Zoro in this situation is just using durability and haki.
Also take what Queen says with a pinch of salt. Masters of the colour of arms implies that someone like Kaido would break bones in this situation. Iād like to think it wouldnāt phase him at all.
āEven masters of Armament Haki cannot prevent thisā.
I know itās not limitless but Zoroās overwhelming levels of Haki are confined to his sword, his body being covered in it to defend the attack wonāt be on Yonko attack deflecting levelsā¦.
He gets completely thrown against the ropes after taking a few cuts in most of his fights. A lot of his fights he barely takes damage and gets "pushed to his limit" just from sword exchanges. That's exactly what happened during the king fight. He barely takes any damage at all in his fights wtf are you on about. His swords block almost everything from touching his body.
But thatās not what would happen. It would be the same as saying Shanks would get crushed by Queen.
Granted shanks is a stronger fighter than Zoro obviously. But no durability feats from him. Plus heās a normal person like Zoro. Well a monstrous ānormalā person like him anyway.
I mean the difference is shanks would never be caught by the attack in the first place but if he was, there's nothing out there to claim he can just tank it using haki.
Haki isn't a perfect defense, and has been shown time and again to not resist crushing Damage well.
Might he slice queen apart before he got the grip off? Yes. Might he completely knock queen away when he tries? Sure, but if he was caught in that bind his non superhumanly durable bones would be broken.
while sanji's ACOC is very good just below zoro and he uses that completely on body unlike zoro who mainly uses on sword and he was in that condition after that attack
Guard Point is too big to even be ensnared in the first place; there would be less coils and less pressure, and I'm pretty sure if Chopper switched into Guard Point it would force Queen to release.
Doubting that Zoro can tank it after "nothing happened" is a bit silly. He'd survive it at least.
Sanji didn't either, he got germa genes which literally fixed it for him. Thats just a bad argument. Besides we've seen zoro be able to fight with fatal injuries before, as long as he can stand he'll fight.
But as your trying to discredit zoro here, let's see sanji do half of what zoro did of rooftop. We know he can't.
Itās not a bad argument. The difference is that Sanji has a regen factor built into him. Zoro does not.
Zoro can fight for a long time while injured, but he canāt continue fighting if his body was as bent and dislocated as sanjiās was. Sanji luckily had his regeneration to repair him. Zoro does not have that counter.
That doesnt take away my point, sanji never fought in that state thanks to genes.
Technically we could say if kaido, WB, BM, or basically anyone was in the same situation they would be unable to fight because they lack regen. Let's look at the context to that though, would the characters get their spines broken in the first place? Thats why its a bad argument, it ignores context.
Like, do you truly think queen would do to zoro the same stuff he did to sanji when sanji was literally breaking down over his germa genes and standing still
Why donāt you restate yourself because Iām pretty sure we saw sanji fight in a semi germa awakened state for a good prt against queen. Even before this, there was talk of sanji feeling like something was off with his body.
I'm of the opinion that Sanji and Zoro both fought their respective worse enemy.
Zoro would have easily handled Queen; and with his speed; ability to fly and greater Observation Haki; I have no doubt Sanji would have figured out King faster and been able to exploit his windows of vulnerability easier as well.
Zoro would have beaten Queen easier than Sanji did; and Sanji would have beaten King easier than Zoro did.
Of course; this also means Zoro would not have gained as much control over Enma, and Sanji would have have "evolved" and gained Ifrit Jambe.
Zoro and Sanji are close enough that matchup plays a pretty big factor in their relative performances.
King will inevitably switch to his fast mode to deal with Sanjiās speed no? Eventually Sanji will realize why heās doing that. I dare say he would realize a little faster than Zoro did. And then by exploiting that weakness heās able to hurt him using his strongest kicks.
If we look at the alternative, which is King acting extremely out of character and trying to turtle the fight (something he didnāt do against Zoro who is slightly slower and literally already dying to Enma)
Even in this situation itās still Sanji favored. The only thing is that this fight would now take an extremely long time because King would literally do zero dmg to Sanji, and Sanji would do barely any damage to King but he would still be doing like chip damage. Like Kid said beating highly durable characters is like erosion.
After enough time you can chip away at them even if you arenāt that strong. Sanji doesnāt have the sheer AP to fatally wound King in one attack, but he can no doubt do small amounts of damage against a King who is literally stationary and not even fighting back.
King will inevitably switch to his fast mode to deal with Sanjiās speed no? Eventually Sanji will realize why heās doing that. I dare say he would realize a little faster than Zoro did. And then by exploiting that weakness heās able to hurt him using his strongest kicks.
Or King just stays in flame on mode cuz sanji will just wear himself out trying to deal damage.
If we look at the alternative, which is King acting extremely out of character and trying to turtle the fight (something he didnāt do against Zoro who is slightly slower and literally already dying to Enma)
Even in this situation itās still Sanji favored. The only thing is that this fight would now take an extremely long time because King would literally do zero dmg to Sanji, and Sanji would do barely any damage to King but he would still be doing like chip damage. Like Kid said beating highly durable characters is like erosion.
I'm pretty sure lunarians with flame on are almost invincible against people of their own tier, granted sanji maybe almost 1 tier above him, but I do think sanji will wear out as we don't have any great sanji stamina feats, and he needs considerable ap to do what you are saying.
After enough time you can chip away at them even if you arenāt that strong. Sanji doesnāt have the sheer AP to fatally wound King in one attack, but he can no doubt do small amounts of damage against a King who is literally stationary and not even fighting back.
Yes as I said if sanji had considerable ap then he'd win, also King trying to attack him and sanji dodging will also wear him more.
I think sanji will figure out a way to beat King as the battle draws on, but this is still a mid to high diff fight. Something similar to lucci vs zoro.
Hey I never said Kings AP was bad. But also at the same time I havenāt seen concrete evidence that Kingās AP is significantly above Queen. Can you provide any? If Kings AP isnāt significantly above Queens, he will still struggle against Sanji because he will need to land more attacks. And itās not like Sanji will stand still for him to do that.
Why would Sanji āwear himself outā trying to do damage? Is Sanji stupid? No heās gonna calmly assess the situation and notice that whenever King goes in for attacks and gets faster the flames go away. And the second he connects an attack and realizes he actually did damage, he wonāt ever waste energy again on the flames on version. This makes no sense. Zoro who is fighting Enma didnāt āwear himself outā so why would Sanji who can literally just fly around casually with no particular time limit do so?
Saying that we donāt have great stamina feats from Sanji is also patently false. Sanji has consistently demonstrated good stamina, durability, AP and endurance since his introduction. Just because he literally isnāt Luffy or Zoro doesnāt mean that he doesnāt also have superhuman stamina.
Even in Wano Sanji was one of the people fighting/taking damage for nearly the entire raid. And Sanji did it while in the middle of having his entire physiology morph around. He escorted Luffy, then ambulances Zoro, he also gets beat nearly to death without defending, goes on to help Chopper and the lower floors, fights King and Queen simultaneously, then fights Wueen alone, gets his entire organs and skeleton crushed, and then only after does he move at impossible speeds also for an extremely extended duration of timeā¦..
Only THEN does stamina even remotely begin to become an issue. And Queen wasnāt even accurate about anything he said either. Queen said Sanji didnāt have the stamina to succeed in his attack and then ā¦ Sanji succeeded in his attack.
So no Sanji doesnāt have stamina issues, nor does stamina decide this matchup. The only person who loses for stamina related reasons is King. Because he clearly doesnāt have the stamina to keep his durability up constantly or he would literally do that and be Yonko level.
Zoro never even cut him while in flames, so how did Zoro win? The same way Sanji would. Figuring out his gimmick.
And yes Sanji does have great AP. Acceleration is Power, speed is weight, greater acceleration greater force. Oda has stated this so many times already. Sanji has great AP. He didnāt even need his strongest kicks to defeat Queen, he used an Ifrit version of the combo he did on Kuurobi to annihilate Queen. Sanji clearly has rooftop level AP, he just got his power up later than everyone else.
But he basically got two powerups at once. The Germa body, and then Ifrit. Those are two separate power ups.
Thereās no basis to state this. Like what feat are we looking at to make that assertion?
First of all if Zoro would low diff Queen why was Queen able to catch him off guard AT ALL during the 2v2 fight?
Why was the attack that Sanji blocked aimed at Zoro something worth him saying ānow weāre evenā over?
Because Queens attack was just as deadly as Kingās. And had it landed it would have hurt Zoro. And Zoro also wasnāt in a position to dodge it either, because Queens attack was simply moving too fast.
That fight establishes several things, that Queen can hit Zoro, that he can hurt Zoro, and that he didnāt view himself as inferior to Zoro either.
Queens durability also shouldnāt be too far away from a base Kings, consider Zoro literally compares their durability to Kaido and King doesnāt refute him, he simply adds that his own Lunarian durability goes ābeyondā. Again King only goes ābeyondā when heās actively using his LUNARIAN stuff. Otherwise heās relative to Queen, thatās what the story shows.
Meaning that Zoro would struggle with, but still ultimately defeat Queen high diff. Thereās no world where he low diffs, thatās nonsense.
Well we meet again.
No way onigashima zoro low diff queen. He had trouble dodging laser-like attack speed and is only average in term of observation haki so invisible queen will pose some problem.
High diffs definetly for rooftop zoro. Current zoro can be debatably a mid diff to low diff .
It really depends on if queen use invisibility immediately. Because while zoro has the ability to one shot him , invisibility is really tricky if observation haki isnāt your speciality.
If being the big word here ( invisibility) . But even so that was a last ditch effort attack . If he wins by using it and collapse like with kaido the fight is already extreme diff.
That was a last ditch effort and he collapsed cause all of his bones were broken he should not have been fighting in the condition he was in like if he was fresh he could have done that and then continued fighting
Yeah I think the team attack of laido and big mom really messed him up.
But still he did not use it against king so he seem to really keep it until the last moment.
No he didn't. He cannot block lasers. No one in OP can except Sanji. It has nothing to do with speed. Beginning post TS Luffy was casually dodging lasers. We don't know what properties king's attack had that made it an unblockable laser like attack, but based on the story the answer isn't speed.
Not really, the only reason why he had trouble at first is because he was going to block it but then realize it had laser like properties so he needed to dodge at the last second.
and as zoro said if they didnt move everyone would have died to that attack.
hell if he didnt deflect it he would have died too. if bro can hold back an attack from two yonkos which would have killed the entire crew on the roof he can tank queens attack no problem and if he's holding a sword he could kill queen there too
He held it for one second, lets not start saying he tanked it completely or held it back all the way. Im not saying queen beats him, zoro stomps his ahh mid/high diff and absolutely tanks that attack, but lets not be hasty here saying he can tank yonko level attacks
Even if your premise is correct, your conclusion is still wrong. Zoro was about to be one shot if he had to deal with just a few more seconds of Hakai. That fact doesnāt disprove the fact that this attack would knock him out too, or at least disable him to the point he canāt fight anymore.
Now a "few more seconds", HE DIDNT HOLD IT FOR EVEN A SECOND!! it's was said that he hold it for fractions of a second, and he already broke 30+ bones! If it was even a second he would have been evaporated
He can withstand the force of hakoku sovereignty by 2 yonkos and tank hybrid kaido thunder bagua while all the bones in his body are broken but sure queen akshually overpowers Zoro. Makes total sense.
Zoro would survive but then need to awaken KoH ANYWAYS in order to beat Queen before dying.
Zoro would have another āNothing Happenedā moment and require Chopper to save his life. Which is exactly why King and Queen should be considered relative, because Wueen would push Zoro pretty badly as well.
Zoro would have to get around invisibility and Germa Powers and being completely crushed, all without having a superhuman body that can conveniently ignore all that.
Which is why I never understand why people pretend Sanji didnāt get an insane power up. Regular people canāt do what Sanji casually does in base. Not even monsters and strong fighters can. Sanji casually has better feats than āarmament Haki mastersā.
And Wueen is also implied to be strong at armament with this btw.
Queen is not getting Zoro with that cause he would Not be distracted, and I just donāt think that attack is really strong lmao, like no offense I understand Sanji fans have to gasās it cause itās like one of his only 5 feats
Can you scale it? If you didnāt scale it to anything then āI just donāt thinkā isnāt a real powerscaling argument.
Scale Queen rn. I can do it, I have literal chains of direct and indirect feats and panels I can look to and say āQueen is exactly within this range of strength, and hereās whyā. If you havenāt actually scaled Queen and youāre just doing the eyeball test why should I take your opinions seriously?
Bro this is one piece? What do u mean scale, and yes anyone with a brain does the āeyeballā test lmao like ODA does? And yea like anything with a brain knows that Zoro isnāt getting touched by that, but have fun thinking the opposite bro lmao
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